YET another sniper thread... Hear me out ppl?

(Pippi) #41

I think you ppl are mixing 2 things up here…
For clanmatches snipers are a great option to have. They are almost a necessity. BUT. For the average pub server snipers add little or no teamplay or joy except for the sniper himself.

I am saying that snipers should be banned from ET with the average, crappy pub server in mind. Think of a server full of n00bs that is running assault… 3 or 4 axis snipers who get an occassional kill while their teammates get raped on the comm tower. THAT’S the sort of things I’m thinking of. SD wanted to promote the teamplay (I think) by getting rid of a weapon who encourages players to hide in solitude, far away from their teammates.

I agree that for clanmatches a sniper is a good thing, but that’s an ideal situation. Clanmatches should not be the basis for any gameconcept.

(Dawg) #42

I began reading this thread thinking that the reduced effectiveness of the sniper rifles in ET was pretty much a good thing. However, having read the arguments put forth I think that I have been swayed to the oneShot=oneKill side.

The argument that changed my mind is in describing the sniper rifle as a strategic weapon. I think this is an accurate description and by reducing its capability, the sniper rifle no longer functions well in this capacity. I think that the gameplay would be better if the weapon were more powerful.

Yes, some point-whores will continue to use the weapon beyond the point of strategic effectiveness just so they can rack up points. Do you think that such a selfish player who doesn’t have the option of being a sniper will all of a sudden be an effective member of a strike team? More likely that player will seek out ways of racking up points with less work and little danger. Basically, they will not be an important part of their team whether the sniper rifle is available or not.

I guess my point is this: a true sniper is a deadly thing and worthy of earning an artillery strike to kill. The current sniper does not impart this level of fear and loathing.

Dawg

(bani) #43

and pray tell how, exactly, nerfing the sniper “promotes teamplay”?

because the sniper is a much less effective weapon now, it means that snipers have to remain in their position for 2-3 tiimes longer than they used to, in order to get the same job done. or worse, it means that 2 snipers have to hide far away from their teammates, in order to get the job done. this means less players on that team to join an assault group.

sorry, but this doesn’t “promote teamplay” at all. not in the least.

since when has teamplay got anything to do with players being close to each other? i thought teamplay was measured by coordinated strategies, not measured by the distance between players.

no, it’s quite clear you don’t mean a single thing about “teamplay”. what you really mean is you want all players up close at point blank range firefights. since it’s obvious that’s what you really want, i think you should play quake3 instead.

since when was mediocrity something to aspire to? you’re arguing for aiming for the lowest common denominator, designing games primarily for noobs… i sure hope you never get to design games.

(bani) #44

no, they do so because they are noobs and don’t know how to play the game. even if there wasnt a sniper rifle, they would still be out on the beach trying to pop the enemy with their pistol, or running around stabbing the air with their knife.

just because players are stupid doesn’t mean SD should make the weapons stupid too.

using your argument of “easy kills”, the panzerfaust should be nerfed too. think about it. nothing is more “easy kill” than the panzerfaust really. you dont even have to aim accurately, just point and blast away and kill everyone in a huge radius with splashdamage. so if you want to keep your argument consistent, it should apply to panzerfaust too. and in ET the panzerfaust is 10x worse than in rtcw, thanks to the insanely low recharge time…

i really think you should stop playing on noob pub servers. join a clan and play some clan matches. you might learn something about how the weapons are really used in rtcw :smiley:

(Garfo) #45

bani

well said m8 :blah: :clap: :banana:

(Kendle) #46

since when was mediocrity something to aspire to? you’re arguing for aiming for the lowest common denominator, designing games primarily for noobs… i sure hope you never get to design games.[/quote]
Love that one…

and that one…

well said Bani. :smiley:

(Pippi) #47

since when was mediocrity something to aspire to? you’re arguing for aiming for the lowest common denominator, designing games primarily for noobs… i sure hope you never get to design games.

First off: pub play is the basis for every clancommunity. Most players start playing a new game on a pub, not in a clan. And if new players don’t think it’s “fun” to play a game, they won’t play it, and that means less new clanplayers. And that means a dying community. Its as simple as that.

since when has teamplay got anything to do with players being close to each other? i thought teamplay was measured by coordinated strategies, not measured by the distance between players.

Then tell me what the interaction is between a sniper and the rest of his team on a public server. It is almost non-existant. Coordinated Strategies? In clanmatches, yes, but not on pubs.

because the sniper is a much less effective weapon now, it means that snipers have to remain in their position for 2-3 tiimes longer than they used to, in order to get the same job done. or worse, it means that 2 snipers have to hide far away from their teammates, in order to get the job done. this means less players on that team to join an assault group.

I say there are will be less snipers in ET because it’s such a hard task. Sniping isn’t fun when you hit nothing. So they will pick another class.

using your argument of “easy kills”, the panzerfaust should be nerfed too. think about it. nothing is more “easy kill” than the panzerfaust really.

We’re talking about snipers here, not panzers.

no, it’s quite clear you don’t mean a single thing about “teamplay”. what you really mean is you want all players up close at point blank range firefights. since it’s obvious that’s what you really want, i think you should play quake3 instead.

Don’t flame to get your way.

To be short, it all boils down on what you think is the most important: clanmatches or the average pubplay. I know that having great pubplay is essential for a thriving gamingcommunity. However, a great clangame without new influx is dead from the start.

(bani) #48

uh, there is no interaction between players AT ALL on pub servers. period. it’s always a bunch of selfish noobs going on individual rambo assaults, ignoring the rest of their team. actually in ET its worse since you get XP whores who TEAMKILL their teammates so they can steal XP from others.

nerfing the sniper does nothing to improve teamplay on a public server. mediocre players will be mediocre whether the headshot kills are there or not. you’re fooling yourself if you think that these mediocre players will magically become great team players just because the sniper is nerfed. thanks to the nerfed sniper, we are now under siege from hordes of leveled-up panzerwhores unleashing panzerfausts every few seconds… i dont call this a desirable tradeoff.

so in the end, the pub play is as bad as its ever been (worse actually thanks to XP whoring), and you’ve made it worse for clanplay.

i wish you’d quit advocating making ET stupid just because noobs are stupid. a game should tolerate noobs, not cater to them. don’t punish good players just because there are bad players.

(SCDS_reyalP) #49

What a load of bull. You should play on a decent pub sometime bani…

As for sniping being ‘easy’ in vanilla wolf, I don’t buy it. There are a few people who are truely good snipers (Team Playa and [u]korollary come to mind) but most of the rest are not a huge threat to a team with a couple of decent SMGers and medics.

(Pippi) #50

uh, there is no interaction between players AT ALL on pub servers. period

I don’t know where you play, but on the pubs where I play (Rtcw or ET) there is always a reasonable form of teamplay (and if there isn’t, I leave). Not like in a clanmatch, but its grossly exagerating (sp?) to say that there is no interaction at all. Take for example the FieldOp who is handing out ammo, or the medic who tries to keep all teammates alive, the engineer who builds a command post, even simple things like those are forms of interaction and teamplay.

. it’s always a bunch of selfish noobs going on individual rambo assaults, ignoring the rest of their team.

Nice definition of the pub players you give there. Always a bunch of selfish noobs? Got to give them a bit more respect than that.

actually in ET its worse since you get XP whores who TEAMKILL their teammates so they can steal XP from others.

One word: Complaintsystem.

you’re fooling yourself if you think that these mediocre players will magically become great team players just because the sniper is nerfed.

And where do I say that? Quote me plz.

thanks to the nerfed sniper, we are now under siege from hordes of leveled-up panzerwhores unleashing panzerfausts every few seconds… i dont call this a desirable tradeoff.

Who says they choose the panzer instead of sniper? That’s an assumption. Look at the number of panzers in Rtcw. But anyway, the panzer is too powerfull and should be changed, but that’s not the issue here. We’re talking about snipers.

i wish you’d quit advocating making ET stupid just because noobs are stupid. a game should tolerate noobs, not cater to them. don’t punish good players just because there are bad players.

Bad players? I’m mainly talking about providing fun, and getting shot from accross the map while you don’t even know where you got shot from isn’t fun. That’s one-way fun. Furthermore, a game should aim for a large audience, not an elite subgroup.

:cool:

(Vengeance) #51

Glad iv never really played on a pub server like bani’s played on or i wouldve given the game up. Same for rtcw if those pub servers were like that.

Also if u find a decent server and just keep with it you start to see a buildup of regs.

I admit i have played on some total noobie servers but it takes me 2 seconds to discon and find a much better one.

(bani) #52

[quote=“SCDS_reyalP”]

What a load of bull. You should play on a decent pub sometime bani… [/quote]

name one. all i’ve been able to find for ET servers are complete trash. :angry:

i can tell you the servers to stay the hell away from. can you tell me one that is an example of a model server for all ET servers?

(bani) #53

then please abandon this false premise that you’re advocating teamplay by supporting the nerfed sniper.

what you are really advocating is making all firefights close range, as your own personal idea of “fun”.

(BoltyBoy) #54

Bani, from the way you’re going on it sounds like you’d ban all public servers if you had your way! I think that kind of attitude is welcomed in places like North Korea!!

I think the whole clan scene is great but I think you’d find 90% or more of FPS game players will never play that game as part of a clan. So from the game makers perspective of course they’ll want to make something that’ll appeal to the masses.

I’m not denying that if games were made for clans and if we all played in clans then games would probably be made more enjoyable from a strategic/team play point of view - but that isn’t the be all and end all of what makes an enjoyable gaming experience.

(Pippi) #55

You forgot to read the word “mainly” in my post.
Furthermore, as I already said before, Im a medic with friends/clanmate medics who back me up, therefore snipers are pretty harmless to me, even useless. I was talking about the pub player who doesn’t always has good backup.

(D.ark Matter) #56

Actually the Sniper Rifle isn’t that bad once you reach either lvl 3-4 Cov Ops. Controlled breathing (which I think is only lvl 2) really helps out with the recoil. I haven’t used the sniper in a while and last night I decided to give it a try since I had already reached the rank that gives you the eagle on your helmet (oberest or something like that). It wasn’t hard at all to shoot allies 2x before they got from the right to left side after exiting the caves. I killed atleast 12 people with it in one life before some air support got me, at which point I went back to my sten. The only change they should maybe consider is allowing you to get 1 shot kill headshots when you reach lvl 3-4.

Dark Matter

(bani) #57

problem is that you need 1 headshot + 1 bodyshot or 3 bodyshots to kill a player if they have a single medic on their team.

if you killed them all with 2 shots then they didnt have any medics on their team. which should tell you something about how experienced and coordinated that team was.

(bani) #58

i think you need to put the crack pipe down :smiley:

(Shane) #59

I find if rather funny that you all complain about the sniper rifle so very much. A shot to the head would = a kill, which would = the need for more medics on the field, as there should be! Not to mention teamwork with medics would be much more important than nowadays. Playing with lives can teach you the true need for medics.

Now, what you should really be worried about is Panzerfaust and it’s rediculous accuracy/damage. Why snipe, when you can rocket people to death just like a sniper? Hell, you don’t have to be a genius to point in a GENERAL AREA, let alone a body, and shoot. 300% accuracy is easy with a panz, and the victims usually can’t get revived, because they are blown to friggin’ bits! Hell, you can take out people in a 10-foot radius with a rocket designed for anti-tank purposes!

So, in conclusion, I don’t see the problem with headshots if the medics can revive. I do see a problem with the Panzerfaust though.

P.S. Whens someone going to make a level with trench warfare? =)

(SCDS_reyalP) #60

What a load of bull. You should play on a decent pub sometime bani… [/quote]

name one. all i’ve been able to find for ET servers are complete trash. :angry:

i can tell you the servers to stay the hell away from. can you tell me one that is an example of a model server for all ET servers?[/quote]
Oh, I thought you were including wolf pubs in that statement… my bad :smiley: Hmmm, some decent regulars on timelord, which is good if they are not all on one team. Bad ping for me though. Had some good games on the dropscape server as well, don’t know if people still go there. Honestly, I don’t play too much ET these days, because most server run campaign and 1.5 hours of the same team on the same map just doesn’t do it for me.

My experience with wolf pubs is that when you have enough regulars that on any given night more than 50% of the people you see are ones you game with regularly, you have pretty decent teamwork. Not like a clan match or anything, but a nice experience. I suspect this will happen over time with ET.