Cheaters

([=O=]SMYLER) #61

What an abnormally good first post, well said that man.

With regard peoples abilities at dropping you with three shots , sometimes it happens to me and I think sheeeeeit what the fuck happened there but I don’t start whinging about people having hacks or cheats to do it because even I at times have literally walked through players and wondered how the hell I killed them with such ease (most likely 3 lucky headshots) and they must be lying there wondering WTF happened and maybe even why.

It happens, ping is a big factor a 50 pinger will walk thru a 150 pinger and the guy won’t have a friggin’ clue what happened, whenever I get steamrollered this is the first thing I check my ping vs. his and lo and behold there will 99% of the time be a BIG difference in his favour.

(PH@TIE) #62

Geeez, long read now, and hey I learned a few new discriptive words along the way.

I think that, returning to the original question, cheats do exist that are not curently detected by PB. Evenbalance work on this as hard as possible, with the information they have to hand.

So rather than get involved in a Gerry Springer like discussion here, your time would probably be better spent in joining some of the hack forums, and getting your hands on the new stuff to pass on to www.evenbalance.com

Without the info you cannot irradicate, those who are quite obviously despised.

I have seen em, tested em (on own PC) and delivered em to Evenbalance.

Why not give them a hand and stop stop fightin about it.

(Sauron|EFG) #63

Well, what you are saying is more sarcasm than fact. In that demo, I ranked high, held several titles at the end of the map, and almost single-handedly backed the enemy up at thier spwan slowing the number of them that made it to the fight to a fraction of what it was for quite a while. But then I would expect you to say such about me. Any lie you can muster to further your cause eh? I played on 2 servers tonight, on one of them I ranked #5, on the other I ranked #1. Both had over 28 players.
[/quote]
XP and rank isn’t everything, something even an average pub player (and inexperienced FPS player) like myself knows. Without knowing the opposition and which class you played it means next to nothing. I rank #1 pretty often and have taken up to 8 awards, but does that mean I’m good? Hell no, it just means I should play on other servers. :eek3:

Defending the right objective is something that does matter, but you seemed to forget that in your demo. :smiley:

Staying away from this forum for one day should give you enough time to record all the demos you want, but of course you couldn’t care less if anyone believes you.

(Coolhand) #64

Come on people, I R O N M A N is clearly a troll.

Don’t feed the trolls.

(Belisarius) #65

I agree with Exp|maximus … and hey, there’s always other servers…

(Kendle) #66

Maybe, but he’s a Troll who spreads poison in a new fledgling community.

He comes from a QuakeII background, of his own admission, which is a hostile, bitter and paranoid community. The first Clan I played for were actually a QuakeII Clan starting up a RTCW division. They contained some of the biggest names in the UK Q2 community, Queeg, Sprocket, Hellbent. They formed their original Q2 Clan because, at the time, anyone that played Q2 on public servers was either a noob or an aimbot/wall-hack cheater. They formed their Clan so as to NOT play on publics and only play Clan matches against known and trusted Clans.

ET is a new game, but it’s freely available, and in the UK is currently being given away on PC Gaming magazine cover-disks. Together with all the players coming from RTCW and other games, that’s potentially a huge community of new players.

It’s irresponsible of anyone, not just IRONMAN, to come onto a premier public ET forum such as this, and spread their bitterness, prejudices and paranoia from their previous gaming communities into this one.

I want to see ET grow and prosper, and not turn into another Q2/CS community. Sure, there are cheats, but to imply, to new players who know no better, that they are common, is irresponsible and counter-productive.

(Ifurita) #67

time to add a couple of pennies to the bonfire.

Facts

  1. I have been involved with ET since beta testing, about 6 weeks prior to public release
  2. My team, Wolfjaeger, has been actively involved with competing in the TWL SW ladder and league for 6 weeks now - weekly matches and scrims 5 nights a weeks - competing at the top of the SW ladder
  3. I started stats logging on 6/10 and have since logged 440 games (of course this includes the games where I joined with 1 minute left) - the point is, I’ve been playing this damn game pretty intensively
  4. I frequent maybe 7-8 different servers, not including the servers on which matches are played
  5. I have written tutorials on cvar tweaking and scripting, which are considered to be fairly thorough and comprehensive
  6. I too have seen cheat demos for Q3, RTCW, and ET and have been to the site where you can get them.

Subjective Assertions

  1. I like to think that I am a decent player, definately not stellar, but solid
  2. I like to think that I am a reasonable player with a firm grasp of what people can and should be able to do to me in-game
  3. I believe that I am a reasonable smart person (IQ is definately not >150 so forgive my modest arguments), who is capable to determining if and when a person is repeatedly exercising capabilities beyond what my experience has deemed to be reasonable and expected

Game Experiences to Date

  1. I can’t think of a single person, including those who owned me hard, where I thought they were cheating
  2. I can’t think of a single person or team where I have seen my clan mates speculating (in IRC or a voice channel) that someone was cheating
  3. I have been accused by others of cheating/haxing/using aimbots etc as have some of my team mates. I can most certainly assure you that I don’t have one - whether anyone believes me is another issue - so clearly people think that I possess capabilities beyond what their experience (unknown) has deemed to be reasonable and expected
  4. I HAVE seen exploits used (missing texture at bank, etc) and have certainly seen asinine behavior (door blocking, team killing, sapping, etc)

Conclusions

  1. If I were to narrowly define cheats as hacks or 3rd party programs that enable one to see thru walls, auto aim, run at excessive speeds, etc, then I would have to say that in my experience, I have not suspected anyone of using a cheat

  2. If I expand my definition to include use of exploits, then yes, I have seen people using these, though this seems to change from player to player, server to server, and map to map.

  3. If I expand my definition of cheats to asinine behavior, then I’d have to agree with IRONMAN and say if you only see this every 3-4 servers, then count your blessings.

However, I really only use #1 as a definition of cheating, and by that definition, I haven’t seen any … yet.

(I R O N M A N) #68

Glad to hear it. That would make anyone pretty silly, wouldn’t it.

(I R O N M A N) #69

As for your assertion that my experience in Quake II somehow rules my thinking, I haven’t played Quake II multiplayer more than 3 times in the last 3 years. I’ve been busy playing SOF II, MOHAA, RTCW, Army Operations, a few others, and now Wolf ET. These gaming communities are not so “previous”, and in a timeline of gaming, they are quite recent.

For some reason you seem to think that Wolf ET is virtually immune from cheating. There are no games that are immune from cheaters. Not this one, and none that will ever come. Learn that. There are not very many cheaters in Wolf ET at this time, thankfully. But if you truly believe that they do not exist, you are being very closed-minded and numb. Discussion of known cheats is not counter-productive. It is actually productive, because it helps the make of the game to know what the community is experiencing with their game, and they can learn from it and do things to help it improve. If you see this as a way of putting down the game in some way, then your way of thinking is in discord.

Nobody is here trying to put down Wolf ET. Nobody ever said this game was full of cheaters. Yet you and a 2 or 3 other gweebs keep turning these threads into multipages of bashing and fumes. It’s a great game. It needs a more realistic fate of fire and weapon sounds, but it’s still a great game. It’s just silly that because someone says they see a cheater now and then, you have to attack them repeatedly with argumentative and disruptive posts and follow them from thread to thread attacking them and saying nasty things about them. The only poison I see here comes from you and about 3 others like you, and the only bitterness I see here is you and those few dorks who follow me from thread to thread attacking everything I say, tuning the thread into several pages of bashing. If anyone is trolling, it is you.

What is irresponsible, is this behavior of yours. Please stop it.

(Kendle) #70

Don’t need to, I already know ET isn’t immune from cheats, and I’ve NEVER stated otherwise.

According to YOU there are. “1 or 2 on every 3rd or 4th server”, that’s what you said. There are a lot of servers out there, and that makes a lot of cheaters, by anyone’s reckoning.

Again, I NEVER said they didn’t exist.

I’m not putting down the game, I’m putting down people like you who mock and belittle people like me who want to play the game and have fun without being suspicious of every player on every server I play on who’s better than me. You’re the one who mocks those of us who are not “leet” enough to be able to spot cheats, like you claim to be able to do.

Yes they did, YOU, or at least you very strongly implied that it was so, see response above.

I’m not attacking you, just disagreeing with you, there’s a big difference. If it’s “repeatedly” then it’s becuase you “repeatedly” drag up the subject.

I’m not following you from thread to thread, or attacking you, but I absolutely will express my opinion whenever I see the need to do so.

NO, you stop it. Sorry if that sounds childish, but you’re the one who keeps dragging this up. (this thread was near the bottom of page 2 before you posted in it again).

Now, are you going to respond to my previous posts? Are you going to produce the evidence to support your spurious claims? Or are you now going to withdraw your claim? You’re getting close to it in the wording of your previous post, which is very different in tone and content to the stuff you’ve posted before, but you can’t resist the temptation to (at least try) get “one up” on me in the process.

Withdraw your claim that you see “1 or 2 cheaters on every 3rd or 4th server” or else prove it. That’s the only thing that’s going to end this on-going debate. Don’t accuse me of dragging it out. YOU can end it, by withdrawing your claim or proving it. You’re not going to win the argument, or stop the page after page of posts and counter-posts, by simply having the “last word”.

(ExP|Maximus191) #71

I was happily playing on a server just this weekend when all of a sudden this one guy started calling me a cheater :confused:
First of all he accused me of using an aimbot. At first i saw this as a compliment but when he then accused me of having a “zero damage” hack i started to get a bit peeved tbh(i was dodging his rifle nades).
At the end of the day i have been playing Rtcw in a clan since the demo (infact i still scrim for 2 hours a night now) and being accused of cheating because i was killing him in a few headshots just made me laugh.

I don’t cheat and would never entertain them .I get owned by really good players all the time and i never think they cheated i just wish i was as good as them.

I love to get on a public E.t server with my clan mates to unwind after a tough Rtcw scrim and having super paranoid counterstrike players who now play E.t accuse me of cheating is teh suck tbh.
Play the game, enjoy it and have fun and don’t worry about cheaters so much is what i think.
Ofcourse there is cheats out there but ALL of the public cheats are blocked by pb now. There will ofcourse be private cheats that small groups of hackers keep to themselves so they are not detected but imo these are few and far between .

See you on the servers :slight_smile:

(I R O N M A N) #72

Kendle, if you think 1 or 2 cheaters on every 3rd or 4th servers is “full of cheaters” then your limited gaming experience is really showing. Want to know what full of cheaters is? Install Quake II w/Threewave CTF or SOF 1, or even Quake III and play for 10 minutes on the top 5 servers in your list. LMAO wiping tears of laughter from my eyes :lol:
See how many railgun-using bots splatter you the instant you become visible to them. hehe

A cheater here and there is quite few. We are fortunate that RTCW and Wolf ET are “relatively” cheater free, and we owe that largely to Even Balanace. Something else you might find interesting: Less than half of all Quake III/Team Arena servers run PB. Why? Because many admins are cheat sissies and dont want to prevent themselves from using bots and such. Don’t believe me? Install Q3 and see. All an admin has to do is click on a menu item to enable PB. But many chose not to. Even so, PB is not perfect. It’s good, but it’s still growing.

Withdraw my “claim”? You mean deny the truth that there are cheaters here and there in RTCW and Wolf ET and that players can sometime spot them? OMG dude. Ofcourse not. You just need to somehow come to terms with the fact that a cheater “here and there” is not “full of cheaters”. Re-read the above paragraph. Do this too. Once you are playing Quake II/III tell the players that you see a bot user but don’t give a name. See how many people attack you verbally and tell you that you are a “noob” or a dumbass and are just bitchin’ because you are getting whipped. Then multiply the number of those that verbally accosted you by 4. Then think real hard about how many bots you think you are playing against, Possibly a relationship between those who spouted off at you and the bots will begin to emerge as well. That will give you a more realistic perspective on what is NOT happening so much in RTCW and Wolf ET. Then you might understand my comments better.

(ND80) #73

I’d like to add my two cents to Infurita’s post.

I would characterize myself as the same type of player as he describes himself and that I have a lot of experience with ET players and servers. Currently I have 19 ET servers in some fashion and generally have 300-400 players on them in the evening. Additionally I was an admin for Xian’s ID RTCW servers and have played both games from demo stage on. Cheating is often a topic on my 700+ member forum and was also on Xian’s forums.

I have come to the exact same conclusion as Infurita. To date, despite having been sent demo after demo by people accusing someone of ‘cheating’ I have seen no evidence of anyone using an aimbot or any other form of cheating on my servers. Is it possible that someone has cheated on my servers? Of course it is, but cheating is no where as pervasive as some people make it out to be. In most cases it comes down to someone facing a player that is better than them or using a tactic that the accuser is unfamiliar with.

(SCDS_reyalP) #74

1 or 2 on every 3rd or 4th server is “full of cheaters” from the perspective of people who have been playing RTCW since day one, and NEVER encountered a verifiable cheater in game.

You will of course claim that I just can’t detect cheaters, but the fact is I HAVE SEEN OBVIOUS CHEATERS IN OTHER GAMES AND I HAVE SEEN DEMOS OF PEOPLE CHEATING IN ET AND RTCW but I have NEVER seen those same things in game. In that same time, I’ve seen dozens of people accused of cheating, who were obviously not. That tells me that cheating is fairly rare, and that most people who cry ‘cheat’ in game are mistaken.

I am NOT claiming that cheats don’t exist. Obviously, they do. In my personal experience they are much less common than you claim.

Nor am I alone. In fact, every experienced RTCW player I’ve seen say anything on the subject pretty much agreed with Iffurtas post. That includes some of the best players in the world (players from top CAL invite/main teams). OTOH, you didn’t respond to iffurtas post… Far easier to flame kendle than actually try to defend your position, I suppose ?

Then again most of use are talking about wallhacks or aimbots when we speak of cheaters, not people doorblocking or abusing map bugs.

(I R O N M A N) #75

You said it, not me. Somehow I believe you too. : )

(weasel) #76

You said it, not me. Somehow I believe you too. : )[/quote]
So wait, now you’re agreeing with him that cheating is uncommon in game? I don’t get it.

(Coolhand) #77

You said it, not me. Somehow I believe you too. : )[/quote]
So wait, now you’re agreeing with him that cheating is uncommon in game? I don’t get it.[/quote]

Seems clear to me that he’s changed his position, but isn’t M A N enough to admit he was wrong. Sadly, the world is full of people like this :frowning:

([=O=]SMYLER) #78

I would just like to know when you were on our server the other night ironman, whenever I asked if that was you from the forum, to which you replied “yup” and I replied “oh dear”, why did you leave soon after.

Also as far as I remember from your performances on our server from it’s infancy waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when we were still running it as Wolfy server, I suggest you keep to writing shite as it is superior to your actual gameplay.

But do feel free to play in our place as we have stats running now and because of my “europing” (I live in the UK and play for a yankie clan so my european ping sucks shite) I will need the kills.

(Kendle) #79

The way I see it, there are 2 logical scenarios that we can consider here.

1) There are NO cheats in ET

Only an idiot would believe this, and no-one (and I mean NO-ONE) on these forums has ever suggested this is the case. In 18 months of playing RTCW and ET I, personally, have NEVER seen a cheat on a public PunkBuster enabled server. However, whilst that could lead me to believe this option is true, I don’t, because a) there is evidence to the contrary, and b) I don’t play on every single server out there, and therefore accept that, just because I haven’t seen one, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

2) There are cheats in ET

IRONMAN implied (or so we all thought) that there are “LOTS” of cheats in ET, whereas the rest of us argued there were “SOME”. However he now qualifies this by using Quake as a frame of reference, to which we all agree, myself and IRONMAN included, isn’t comparable to ET.

The question, therefore, is the “number of cheats”, not whether they exist or not. Terms such as “SOME” and “LOTS” are subjective, and only have meaning when compared to some quantifiable measure. In this respect IRONMAN, and myself, and the rest of us, are all correct in our positions, we simply differ in our frame of reference.

However, in his original post, IRONMAN didn’t use these terms. He specifically quantified his claim by saying “1 or 2 cheats on every 3rd or 4th server”. A claim that he has consistently failed to prove.

IRONMAN, if you now wish to conceed that there are only SOME / LOTS (depending on your frame of reference) cheats in ET, we can end this sorry saga right now. Arguing about subjective terminolgy that means different things to different people is pointless. However, if you wish to stick with your original, specific, quantified claim, that there are “1 or 2 cheats on every 3rd of 4th server”, then I’m sorry, but you are still going to have to prove it, because no-one else here accepts those numbers.

You don’t need to lose face, and you can abuse me a bit more if you like, I don’t care. But if you’re going to quantify your claims, you need to back them up.

(DG) #80

is this crap still going on?

ironman cant take getting owned and thinks every other player is a cheater, and certainly isnt being convinced otherwise, regardless of facts or common sense. boo hoo tough crap for ironman. anyone else beleiving it is equally stupid and boo hoo for them too.

etc etc, end of.