[quote=“Sploosh;145876”]Can Splash Damage just listen to Amerika and revert this change?
I mean come on, he’s laid out the best points and there’s really no counter-argument to his other than “I hate snipers” basically. [/quote]
I hate snipers and even I can’t make a counter-argument to his suggestions. 
[quote=“Sploosh;145876”]Can Splash Damage just listen to Amerika and revert this change?
I mean come on, he’s laid out the best points and there’s really no counter-argument to his other than “I hate snipers” basically.
Put it this way, if this change was never made, people wouldn’t be asking for it. I think someone mentioned that this has been a big topic on the forums, but I have not seen a single thread (before the update) asking for Vassili’s jumping accuracy to be nerfed. I think I saw a couple about the shotguns, but that’s it. [/quote]
There have been other requests.
[quote=“Amerika;145722”]
Are you happy with a bunch of Vassili players who sit at the back of a map taking pot shots all day and never advancing? Have you never once made a joke or even gotten mad with the terrible Vassili players that sit there all day and do nothing? I’d wager you probably have. But considering you use the term “awp whore” and aren’t joking it probably doesn’t even matter what I say to you as you obviously just want snipers in general to be nerfed hard as it is one less thing to think about or know how to counter.[/quote]
I honestly don’t care if they never get 1 kill and play knife fight behind a barrel with another teammate as long as they’re tossing their sensors where it’s useful to the team.
Nothing has changed with regards to bolt-actions that doesn’t apply to every single other merc.
You can also choose to not be a rambo up front and stick in the back on overwatch like you’e supposed to. If you want to then you get to live with the consequences of your decisions. The exact same as everyone else. I don’t get to dome Vas down the street with a shotgun and Vas doesn’t get to omgwtfbbqscopedjumpkill4tehlulz 10 feet from me.
Vas isn’t going to be the best option in every map and area which is what you’re asking for.
[quote=“MTLMortis;145963”][quote=“Amerika;145722”]
Are you happy with a bunch of Vassili players who sit at the back of a map taking pot shots all day and never advancing? Have you never once made a joke or even gotten mad with the terrible Vassili players that sit there all day and do nothing? I’d wager you probably have. But considering you use the term “awp whore” and aren’t joking it probably doesn’t even matter what I say to you as you obviously just want snipers in general to be nerfed hard as it is one less thing to think about or know how to counter.[/quote]
I honestly don’t care if they never get 1 kill and play knife fight behind a barrel with another teammate as long as they’re tossing their sensors where it’s useful to the team.
Nothing has changed with regards to bolt-actions that doesn’t apply to every single other merc.
You can also choose to not be a rambo up front and stick in the back on overwatch like you’e supposed to. If you want to then you get to live with the consequences of your decisions. The exact same as everyone else. I don’t get to dome Vas down the street with a shotgun and Vas doesn’t get to omgwtfbbqscopedjumpkill4tehlulz 10 feet from me.
Vas isn’t going to be the best option in every map and area which is what you’re asking for.[/quote]
I didn’t ask for him to be the best and he never was and if you thought he was, well, I guess that’s your opinion. I asked for him to be competent and have the option even if it’s a much harder thing to do. I stated that it’s easier to go with another merc and do the same thing. It’s much much harder to do it with Vassili but it was possible previously.
You do realize a Vas player can still “dome you from 10 feet” right? That’s not changed. In fact, in those situations, most will be using an MP400. And they certainly won’t be jumping off of walls to shoot you if they use the bolt-action if they are competent players. Do you understand what we’re talking about? Your responses are pretty much, “I hate snipers” without seeming to comprehend the argument being made and the situations where jumping is used.
I do not hate snipers at all. I love playing sniper classes. Not in DB but elsewhere.
And, yes I get that you want to stand behind a wall and jump-peek-shoot without penalty. Frankly you and I completely disagree on that being a valid option for combat.
Translation: I want to be able to kill people from 300 meters away while making figure eights in the air between two walls with them having zero chance of being able to retaliate due to damage dropoff and range.
ok.[/quote]
Translation: I’m too much of a dipshit to use alternate flanking ways to fuck up one guy who is most likely to get rekt agaisnt most of the merc in the game at closer range, so i want you to nerf him because people with skills shouldnt have this skill advantage on me and everyone should use the same merc as i do so you gotta nerf all the other merc so they play only the one i want, cause im to freakin dumb to counter other mercs.
Because jump-peek-shoot is unbeatable strat otherwise. Abandon your Fraggers and Sawbonez, hide in yo spawn, cause it’s impossible to stop the jumping Vaseline.
top kek
I’m pretty sure I’ve explained before that any Vas worth their salt is not going to be jumping if they have explosives flying over their head. Or if you shoot back at all, because hey, who would have thought Vas only has 100 health? It’s not like tapping him once in the head and once in the body will deal around a quarter to a third of his health. There is very obvious counterplay to a jump shotting Vasilli, no different to how you would deal with any other person abusing cover peeking.
Or how about that even great Vasillis will land, at best, around 70% of their shots when not jumping, let alone when they start jumping. Because who would have thought trying to find a target, adjusting your aim, and firing, all under half a second, would have been harder than firing when on the ground with less time constraints? But of course, that isn’t a penalty at all. No sir, it’s not like taking advantage of extremely high cover limits my time to take a shot and reduces my ability to check for flankers.
Any Vasilli player can tell you several ways to deal with a Vasilli that doesn’t involve choosing Vasilli. Redeye shuts him down almost entirely, any grenade using merc can keep him surpressed, BRs can compete with him at anything but the longest of long range, not running into his line of sight one at a time like idiots is a great way to not get shot, and running at him as a group is an easy way to force the Vas to back off or get killed. Counterplay is entirely possible against Vasilli, some people were just too lazy or too stupid to think for a moment and realize what Vasilli can’t do and exploit that.
Even the dreaded last part of Chapel on defenders is not invulnerable for the Vasilli. The only peek points from that spawn area are either narrow areas that make nades easy as shit to throw at him, or the open ramp which has less coverage and is vulnerable to the skyhammer airstrikes that are thrown to clear out behind the bus and rock. Neither of these locations overlook the cap point, so just killing his team and running the obj to the cap point forces him to come out or give up a free cap.
[quote=“MTLMortis;146022”]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KzjxdwE7_I
I do not hate snipers at all. I love playing sniper classes. Not in DB but elsewhere.
And, yes I get that you want to stand behind a wall and jump-peek-shoot without penalty. Frankly you and I completely disagree on that being a valid option for combat.[/quote]
Could you please answer my questions in this thread or the other. Especially in the other thread where you accused me of being too linear. I really want to hear your train of logic that lead you to that conclusion in regards to Dirty Bomb and how it plays/flows (and not other games).
Translation: I want to be able to kill people from 300 meters away while making figure eights in the air between two walls with them having zero chance of being able to retaliate due to damage dropoff and range.
ok.[/quote]
Translation: I’m too much of a dipshit to use alternate flanking ways to fuck up one guy who is most likely to get rekt agaisnt most of the merc in the game at closer range, so i want you to nerf him because people with skills shouldnt have this skill advantage on me and everyone should use the same merc as i do so you gotta nerf all the other merc so they play only the one i want, cause im to freakin dumb to counter other mercs.[/quote]
Jesus dropping the truth bombs since 0 a.D.
Translation: I want to be able to kill people from 300 meters away while making figure eights in the air between two walls with them having zero chance of being able to retaliate due to damage dropoff and range.
ok.[/quote]
Translation: I’m too much of a dipshit to use alternate flanking ways to fuck up one guy who is most likely to get rekt agaisnt most of the merc in the game at closer range, so i want you to nerf him because people with skills shouldnt have this skill advantage on me and everyone should use the same merc as i do so you gotta nerf all the other merc so they play only the one i want, cause im to freakin dumb to counter other mercs.[/quote]
Well, there’s the counter-argument.
I have no experience with the Sniper Rifles that use this tactic…not my thing and I’m not good enough to use these kinda…closest I’ve used is the PDP and it doesn’t need to rely on this tactic.
That being said…as much as I hate the good Snipers picking me off (when there actually is a GOOD sniper)…this change doesn’t make quite as much sense for Sniper, but as selfish as it might sound I’d rather they keep it than return to the bunny hopping spray and pray Proxy, Aura, and Fletcher (that is out of bombs).
That also being said…I ask is there a way to compensate skilled Snipers without having to flat out go back to before this change? Can the devs change how jumping affects Sniper rifles only? Or give them some kind of buff that will make up for the jump change?
[quote=“Sorotia;146145”]
That also being said…I ask is there a way to compensate skilled Snipers without having to flat out go back to before this change? Can the devs change how jumping affects Sniper rifles only? Or give them some kind of buff that will make up for the jump change? [/quote]
Maybe we could force them to unscope when they jump, so they have to time mouse2 and mouse1 perfectly to land the shot.
[quote=“Sorotia;146145”]I have no experience with the Sniper Rifles that use this tactic…not my thing and I’m not good enough to use these kinda…closest I’ve used is the PDP and it doesn’t need to rely on this tactic.
That being said…as much as I hate the good Snipers picking me off (when there actually is a GOOD sniper)…this change doesn’t make quite as much sense for Sniper, but as selfish as it might sound I’d rather they keep it than return to the bunny hopping spray and pray Proxy, Aura, and Fletcher (that is out of bombs).
That also being said…I ask is there a way to compensate skilled Snipers without having to flat out go back to before this change? Can the devs change how jumping affects Sniper rifles only? Or give them some kind of buff that will make up for the jump change? [/quote]
They can simply revert the change for sniper rifles.
Sniper rifles definitely did not need a nerf.
I think the point is that an increasingly common strategy is to, instead of simply strafing, crouch, hold ADS, and jump left and right while shooting back at your attacker. It’s actually very annoying AGAINST Vassili because he relies so much on headshots, and when the opponents are bouncing all over the place it makes his job a LOT harder than it would be for a gun with a higher DPS and firerate (the MOA actually has a very low DPS). So I reckon the nerf to accuracy while in midair was nerfed to stop that from being used everywhere.
I don’t care that jumping accuracy was nerfed for other guns, but the bolt action snipers used jump sniping as a viable trick up the sleeve to surprise an opponent. It wasn’t OP, it was highly skill-based, and it was FUN (both for players and spectators).
[quote=“Amerika;145722”]
This not only made me feel bad about my aim but my play in general 
[quote=“Sploosh;146220”][quote=“Sorotia;146145”]I have no experience with the Sniper Rifles that use this tactic…not my thing and I’m not good enough to use these kinda…closest I’ve used is the PDP and it doesn’t need to rely on this tactic.
That being said…as much as I hate the good Snipers picking me off (when there actually is a GOOD sniper)…this change doesn’t make quite as much sense for Sniper, but as selfish as it might sound I’d rather they keep it than return to the bunny hopping spray and pray Proxy, Aura, and Fletcher (that is out of bombs).
That also being said…I ask is there a way to compensate skilled Snipers without having to flat out go back to before this change? Can the devs change how jumping affects Sniper rifles only? Or give them some kind of buff that will make up for the jump change? [/quote]
They can simply revert the change for sniper rifles.
Sniper rifles definitely did not need a nerf. [/quote]
I’m not a game developer or anything…but can’t it be tough to change that if all guns function under the exact same mechanics…they would have to go through and make unique ones for the Sniper rifles. (Not saying it would be impossible…just could be complicated.)
[quote=“Sorotia;146231”][quote=“Sploosh;146220”][quote=“Sorotia;146145”]I have no experience with the Sniper Rifles that use this tactic…not my thing and I’m not good enough to use these kinda…closest I’ve used is the PDP and it doesn’t need to rely on this tactic.
That being said…as much as I hate the good Snipers picking me off (when there actually is a GOOD sniper)…this change doesn’t make quite as much sense for Sniper, but as selfish as it might sound I’d rather they keep it than return to the bunny hopping spray and pray Proxy, Aura, and Fletcher (that is out of bombs).
That also being said…I ask is there a way to compensate skilled Snipers without having to flat out go back to before this change? Can the devs change how jumping affects Sniper rifles only? Or give them some kind of buff that will make up for the jump change? [/quote]
They can simply revert the change for sniper rifles.
Sniper rifles definitely did not need a nerf. [/quote]
I’m not a game developer or anything…but can’t it be tough to change that if all guns function under the exact same mechanics…they would have to go through and make unique ones for the Sniper rifles. (Not saying it would be impossible…just could be complicated.) [/quote]
Well y’know… When you wanna make things right sometimes you gotta be willing to put in the extra effort. That is if they want their game to succeed… Some of the changes lately have been highly questionable.
Having Vassili as my most played merc, it took me a few days to reach a decision about this change.
The point of this nerf was to limit snipers from doing those crazy jump shots, which aren’t too hard to pull off, but being able to snipe mid air gave snipers much more chances to position yourself and not limit yourself to find that perfect sniper nest for that certain part of the map.
While I understand the reasoning behind this, I do feel the nerf was a little undeserved, as it impacts both long and close range combat. Yes, snipers are supposed to be godlike at long range and weak close range, but I believe the change was a little rough.
While Vassili does have access to great secondary weapons, he’s still not too great at close range. Which is kind of how snipers should be, but it’s limiting a merc quite a lot. Sure you could also say that Rhino suffers from the same type of design, not being able to do anything long range other than try his luck with pistols. BUT, Dirty Bomb is a really fast paced game and flanking is extremely powerful, it’s rather easy in most maps to close that gap through different routes. This is why I would say that mercs limited to close range aren’t weak in this game.
Snipers in this game aren’t THAT strong to deserve this nerf in my opinion. Even Kek-10 can snipe players from extremely long range, since most guns in the game already have so tiny spread at long range that snipers aren’t that special types of guns, honestly, snipers are just long range shotguns that require more aim to perform better and require scoping.
In my opinion the maps aren’t really designed to have enough great positions for snipers to take advantage of. Scoping close range to pull off a headshot isn’t an easy task, but if you can’t try to jump around to try to avoid getting shot, you’re just more of an easy target.
[quote=“Dracorion;146322”]Having Vassili as my most played merc, it took me a few days to reach a decision about this change.
The point of this nerf was to limit snipers from doing those crazy jump shots, which aren’t too hard to pull off, but being able to snipe mid air gave snipers much more chances to position yourself and not limit yourself to find that perfect sniper nest for that certain part of the map.
While I understand the reasoning behind this, I do feel the nerf was a little undeserved, as it impacts both long and close range combat. Yes, snipers are supposed to be godlike at long range and weak close range, but I believe the change was a little rough.
While Vassili does have access to great secondary weapons, he’s still not too great at close range. Which is kind of how snipers should be, but it’s limiting a merc quite a lot. Sure you could also say that Rhino suffers from the same type of design, not being able to do anything long range other than try his luck with pistols. BUT, Dirty Bomb is a really fast paced game and flanking is extremely powerful, it’s rather easy in most maps to close that gap through different routes. This is why I would say that mercs limited to close range aren’t weak in this game.
Snipers in this game aren’t THAT strong to deserve this nerf in my opinion. Even Kek-10 can snipe players from extremely long range, since most guns in the game already have so tiny spread at long range that snipers aren’t that special types of guns, honestly, snipers are just long range shotguns that require more aim to perform better and require scoping.
In my opinion the maps aren’t really designed to have enough great positions for snipers to take advantage of. Scoping close range to pull off a headshot isn’t an easy task, but if you can’t try to jump around to try to avoid getting shot, you’re just more of an easy target.[/quote]
I think you voted for the wrong option on the poll.
[quote=“TheVulpesFox;146230”][quote=“Amerika;145722”]
This not only made me feel bad about my aim but my play in general
[/quote]
Almost all of the jumpsnipes you were doing in that video would have been just as effective as if you’d been standing up/crouching/standing up/crouching behind cover. That’s not the best use of jump sniping at all, and if you were trying to say that your video is proof of ‘why jump sniping needed nerfing’ then it really doesn’t make a good point.
Jumpsniping is more of a rarely-used ‘trick up the sleeve’ kind of strategy that can surprise your opponent(s), whether it’s by jump out from behind cover instead of slowly peaking around (like they’d expect) or whether it’s by jumping up OVER cover that you wouldn’t be able to shoot over from the ground. It was never OP.