Which body type is your favourite? (part 1)

[INF3RN0]

I have a feeling that light-body types will be able to take the most advantage of the smart system, and who doesn’t love being an urban ninja :). I am sure that I will use all the body types at some point, but I bet you that mediums will be pretty rare just cuz (Rahdo did vote medium, so maybe he’s not telling us something ).

[H0RSE]

I have a feeling that light-body types will be able to take the most advantage of the smart system, and who doesn’t love being an urban ninja :). I am sure that I will use all the body types at some point, but I bet you that mediums will be pretty rare just cuz (Rahdo did vote medium, so maybe he’s not telling us something ).

Urban ninja…pffft. I’ll take the Hulk over someone nimble like Deadpool or Wolverine anyday.

[Baumbo]

I second H0RSE’s movement. I just want a big guy with lots of health, and a big gun. Hopefully a minigun or an assault rifle with lots of ammo. Spray and Pray the little ninja guys down.

[Joshua_Morrison]

If there isn’t a melee or knife of some kind I will probably be medium just cause speed is important but if there is no melee I would assume I will want some health to fight with.

[tokamak]

Body type variation might become an important key to having a well balanced team, just as much as class variation.

Not at all. You’re likely to need all classes to get through the match while any team of any bodytype can complete it, it all depends on how well people play according to their setup and that of the rest of the team.

[INF3RN0]

Not at all. You’re likely to need all classes to get through the match while any team of any bodytype can complete it, it all depends on how well people play according to their setup and that of the rest of the team.

Can we really support that without actually playing the game?

Some body types might turn out to be better for a specific class also. If that is the case, then you get people always playing the same class or classes that fit their pre-selected body type, and this is where I can see problems.

This is what I am concerned about in regards to the body type selection system, which is why I suggested this.

I think that swapping between body types mid game is probably something to avoid, but I do think that players should be able to setup varying body-types per class in warmup or before joining a server. This way people can experiment and then decide how they want to play, while ensuring the enforcement on balance and team play.

Any thoughts on that?

[darthmob]

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;216903]Any thoughts on that?[/QUOTE]There is a whole thread about it somewhere!

[INF3RN0]

There is a whole thread about it somewhere!

All I can remember is vague hints and people not affiliated with SD making assumptions :). I do know that Rhado said that body-types will be locked on selection each game, but that is why I brought up a potential problem with that system . It seems like this is the place to discuss it, looking at previous posts, but I haven’t seen anyone address the problem I foresee. Sometimes even the devs overlook problematic scenarios that only arise from the confused mess which is the pub.

[DarkangelUK]

Well go read the thread again and see if anything was missed, and if it was, post in there instead covering old ground in another thread.

[INF3RN0]

That’s the deal for “official” games. The discussion is about why competition players should be able to have it differently. What value does changing body types add to competitive gaming? I don’t see any at all. This discussion is actually far more interesting to league organizers than the developers.

Being such a league hater seems to force you to overlook the importance of many competition arisen issues that might affect the pub in the same way .

Also I am a little confused by you saying that body-types will not have a coherent role in the game play by posts like this…

Changing bodytypes just cheapens that gameplay element. Constantly wanting the ‘optimum’ for each situation is lame.

I can see this argument saying that they may not create significant issues and instead create a more limited system that you have to learn to deal with, but you apparently think that body-types have some affect to support your reasoning behind locking them at all correct?

These guys seem to be thinking along the same lines as well.

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;204037]Not being able to change body type is already a gameplay element, being able to change body type is not adding anything, it’s just changing one that already exists.

I’m still curious where this ‘unfair advantage’ is coming from since everyone is stuck with their body type choice.[/QUOTE]

Having a set body type for the entire match is all about adapting…It’s also a new gameplay element. Taking the choice you made, and using it to the best of your ability is the essence of adapting.

All valid points, but… I can still see problems with this if it is not refined, which I stated in my previous post. If there is any small optimum body-type for certain classes (or simply favored by different individuals), it results in inadvertent limiting and problematic scenarios. If you join a server with all heavies, and half the people only play heavy with a certain class that it is best suited for, then you have a big problem. Now this can simply be a problem when you have too many people who only like to play a specific class regardless, but this issue could further that problem all together. So, we share the opinion that body-type locking adds some fairly good elements to the game, but it is also my opinion that there might be some ways to improve upon it as well (for the benefit of the game in any group).

[INF3RN0]

Well go read the thread again and see if anything was missed, and if it was, post in there instead covering old ground in another thread.

This looks like the right thread for this discussion lol…

[DarkangelUK]

darthmob threw me off

[tokamak]

Can we really support that without actually playing the game?

It’s the purpose of the whole body type. If they can’t live up to that then they might as well leave them out.

This is what I am concerned about in regards to the body type selection system, which is why I suggested this.

Matter of balance just like anything else. And even if your bodytype isn’t right for the situation/class then where’s the harm in that? The other team will have the same problem.

I think that swapping between body types mid game is probably something to avoid, but I do think that players should be able to setup varying body-types per class in warmup or before joining a server. This way people can experiment and then decide how they want to play, while ensuring the enforcement on balance and team play.
Any thoughts on that?

Yes. That as well chips away at the purpose of bodytypes.

See, class balance and tactics and such are the top layer of strategy in this game, class dictates your role on the battlefield, the body dictates the way in which you play that role. That’s it. Sure there will be times you will be like “damn I really wish we had an heavy engineer now instead of this light dude” or “Awesome, that light covert really touched down that objective in time!” but not in the same way you can lose the game for not having the right classes.

Bodtypes are a tool, not a neccesity. You can find yourself in convenient and inconvenient situations for your type and it takes skill to make the best out of both.

All valid points, but… I can still see problems with this if it is not refined, which I stated in my previous post. If there is any small optimum body-type for certain classes (or simply favored by different individuals), it results in inadvertent limiting and problematic scenarios. If you join a server with all heavies, and half the people only play heavy with a certain class that it is best suited for, then you have a big problem. Now this can simply be a problem when you have too many people who only like to play a specific class regardless, but this issue could further that problem all together. So, we share the opinion that body-type locking adds some fairly good elements to the game, but it is also my opinion that there might be some ways to improve upon it as well (for the benefit of the game in any group).

Yes, sometimes a bodytype might not be the best suited for your class, mind that this also depends on the situation and phase of the match. But that’s actually an argument against free changing of bodies as it will mean that players will keep changing their body to adjust their class. If bodtypes were open and offered a slight advantage to one particular class, you would always see that class walking around in that body at that phase of the match, that’s just lame.

The appeal of locked bodies is that every player will have to bite the bullet at some point (by figure of speech that is), and that’s where true skill is tested. Always having the right tools at the right tools might seem nice now, but really, wrestling yourself out of an underdog situation with the odds stacked against you purely by your own skill is so much more rewarding.

Oh and I’m not a league hater, if I had a more stable week schedule I would love to have a go at it myself. What bugs me is that people think comp holds higher standards to a game than pubs and deserve a special treatment.

[darthmob]

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;216920]darthmob threw me off :([/QUOTE]Hey that’s not fair! You have let yourself been thrown off by me; don’t say it like it is all my fault!

And there is a thread about it because the discussion was drifting away in another topic (possibly this one here but I’m not sure).

[INF3RN0]

[QUOTE=tokamak;216935]
Matter of balance just like anything else. And even if your bodytype isn’t right for the situation/class then where’s the harm in that? The other team will have the same problem.

Yes. That as well chips away at the purpose of bodytypes.

See, class balance and tactics and such are the top layer of strategy in this game, class dictates your role on the battlefield, the body dictates the way in which you play that role. That’s it. Sure there will be times you will be like “damn I really wish we had an heavy engineer now instead of this light dude” or “Awesome, that light covert really touched down that objective in time!” but not in the same way you can lose the game for not having the right classes.

Bodtypes are a tool, not a neccesity. You can find yourself in convenient and inconvenient situations for your type and it takes skill to make the best out of both.

Yes, sometimes a bodytype might not be the best suited for your class, mind that this also depends on the situation and phase of the match. But that’s actually an argument against free changing of bodies as it will mean that players will keep changing their body to adjust their class. If bodtypes were open and offered a slight advantage to one particular class, you would always see that class walking around in that body at that phase of the match, that’s just lame.

The appeal of locked bodies is that every player will have to bite the bullet at some point (by figure of speech that is), and that’s where true skill is tested.[/QUOTE]

Eh… are you reading what I am saying? You keep defending the assumed system like there is nothing wrong with it, and not really addressing the issue I was talking about. I am concerned with body-types affecting the class variation, and although some would play any class with any body-type, there are those that would not (not including myself as one). I think that what I suggested does nothing but reinforce the whole idea of keeping players on track and in no way chips away at the purpose of their use. I did say that I think you should be able to pre-select varying body-types per class instead of having only one the entire game, and not to be able to change them constantly. How are players supposed to know what body-types others are using when they join a server? If it played just an aesthetic role I wouldn’t care, but it does not and it may prove to be a bit more important than we think. I really don’t see how this kind of half-way point between 1 locked body-type and free body-types would do anything but adhere to the effort of giving players no reasons not to help their team.

[INF3RN0]

[QUOTE=tokamak;216935]

Oh and I’m not a league hater, if I had a more stable week schedule I would love to have a go at it myself. What bugs me is that people think comp holds higher standards to a game than pubs and deserve a special treatment.[/QUOTE]

That is true in a lot of cases, but don’t be eager to condemn everything related just for that reason . In a lot of cases pub=purely fun and comp=balance and mechanics. I prefer the comp mentality when it comes to the game design for this reason, not saying that anyone has to play in a league or anything to think this way :). I just dislike the fact that people think comp players ruin a game or ruin its purpose in their attempt to ensure balance at the simplest levels.

[tokamak]

Sorry I really don’t see your point. You want to remove a layer of texture for the sake of what? (body-types that is, not the comp discussion)

[INF3RN0]

There is an obvious gap between those that favor free-body types and a single locked body type for no solid reasons other than opinions. Free-changing body types could potentially reduce the strategical elements of their purpose, but having a single locked body type feels limiting. So it seems like overall people agree that body type will have some sort of an affect on how you play the game. If body types were just for looks, then no one would care about free-changing, but since they do people want some security. The argument to this is that everyone will be under the same conditions so what would it matter, and that we will just have to learn to play our body type to every class (although free changing kind of gives an equal opportunity to everyone as well right?). What wasn’t taken into consideration was how this might affect the game overall. The question I am posing is how will locking a single body type influence class choices if someone chooses to only play a specific class with a correlating body type. In the ideal scenario, everyone would play the classes that were most helpful to their team and be able to play them to an affect regardless of their body type. What I foresee is my teammate saying that they can only play heavy soldier because they are worthless as a heavy covert. Now another might be able to play as a heavy covert well, or we could just say too bad so sad its a part of the game, but without some kind of organization that you won’t find in a pub chances are your going to have problems like this. I view being able to pre-select (as in it locks once the game starts) varying body types for each class that you might play as a way to avoid this problem by allowing people to choose a setup that is most optimum perhaps not in general but to their personal ability in order to promote a team effort in any situation. This doesn’t mean that people can easily counter other body types on the opposite team mid game or dissolve the strategy, but rather it will give people more space to develop their play style per class in a way that best serves their team. This solution only seems to satisfy both sides of the argument, while focusing on the bigger picture. I won’t care if we only get to choose one body type per game or free selection, but this is just something that might be a potential problem or perhaps not, and I thought I would share a different approach to the matter.

[tokamak]

If someone choses to play a class regardless of the situation than that makes that person a bad player and both he and the team will be punished. A player that picks up the non-optimal classes whenever they’re necessary will be rewarded in being an asset to your team.

[INF3RN0]

If someone choses to play a class regardless of the situation than that makes that person a bad player and both he and the team will be punished. A player that picks up the non-optimal classes whenever they’re necessary will be rewarded in being an asset to your team.

Yes of course, as I said already, which is why I was pointing out that locking a single body type overall seems to do nothing but increase the chances of this happening . Maybe I am always expecting the worst, but it seems to be pretty common these days :(. I am just trying to reinforce SD efforts to promote flawless game play lol (still wondering how well that will work).