Which body type is your favourite? (part 1)

(tokamak) #241

[QUOTE=Ragoo;204673]Changing weapons ad hoc only degrades the feature of having different guns in the game and you might as well remove it all together and give everyone the same gun if you want a truly level playing field.

You seriously think that if you could change your body type on command posts they wouldn’t matter any more?
I just don’t get it. If you are running around as a light you are light. You are fast but weak, can only handle the small weapons and you are an excellent climber. That are all the things you get while you are playing and if you ever want to play differently you go to the command post and change your body type/character (I prefer character) just like you would change from shotgun to grenade launcher.

It’s not like we want it changeable while in a gun fight.
You run around as a light guy and as soon as you spot the enemy you are going heavy by clicking a button. I wouldn’t like that.

Of course we both haven’t played the game yet so I won’t say it works better. I just mean we should give it a try and have the option to turn it ‘on’ or ‘off’.

edit: btw I played some Team Fortress 2 yesterday and liked it. It’s fun to have all these different characters :)[/QUOTE]

You’re reasoning per gunfight and I’m reasoning per game. Sure, of course you don’t have a choice during a shootout, but if you (or the opponent) get killed then you (or the opponent) damn would make sure that you’ll be better equiped for the next time you meet that guy. So what you get is that players will keep on coming back with the rocks to your scissors and if they succeed you’ll better make sure you get that paper ready. It doesn’t invite to creative gameplay that is necessary for the scissors to beat the rock, which according to Rahdo should always be possible.

This sometimes really occurs in TF2, there’s a true economy of supply vs demand on classes going on during the game, and in my opinion that just cheapens the game.

A better example for you and the gunfight scale reasoning ins Raven Shield, simply because you’re only going to have one shoot out per game (you have one life, and the match restarts after one team is wiped out by the other). The the teams get back to the drawing board and repeat for about 10 games per map. So whenever you get killed by running into tear gas, you’ll make sure you’ll be wearing a gas mask and kill the bastard who thought he was safe by his gas, he’ll find out that his gas is redundant and start using a heart beat sensor to spot you coming around the corner instead, you notice this advantage and you get a sensor jammer next matc.

And this stuff can take really strange turns, I once sniped down an entire team with a thermal sight after they thought they would be safe in the smoke I threw around. Next time they came back with thermal sights as well. The fun part of this is that it takes a lot of anticipation to predict the opponent’s next move.

However, Brink is different in that everything happens within the same match. You don’t get any respawns in Raven Shield to counter what the enemy is doing at that same moment. So I’m afraid of having to repeat myself here. It’s like paying rock, paper scissors where both players get to change their hand after they’ve seen the other’s. It’s downright lame.

I don’t want to see players continuously pick the right body type for the occasion, any idiot can do that. The real fun is seeing players having to deal with situations their body type might not be the most optimal for, which if you remove the in-game choice, will happen to all the players dozens of times during the match.

To compare it with guns isn’t really fair either as the body type dictates your arsenal.

(Ragoo) #242

[QUOTE=tokamak;204676]
I don’t want to see players continuously pick the right body type for the occasion, any idiot can do that.[…]
To compare it with guns isn’t really fair either as the body type dictates your arsenal.[/QUOTE]

So any idiot can figure out how to counter everything? Guess this will be the simplest game since Tic-tac-toe then :smiley:

I don’t see why it’s not far to compare it to guns. Please explain.
What I know is that body type affects your mobility, gunpower and strength.
Weapons greatly affect the range you can shoot (sniper rifle vs uzi), the mobility in combat (camping with big heavy MG that slows you vs running around with shotgun), the way you have to think about approaching your enemy (grenade launcher vs shotgun, mg vs rocketlauncher), the gunpower you have and so on. You get the idea.

(tokamak) #243

Bodytype affects the range of guns (not the power of them) you can chose from, mobility, health and your proefficiency (which is what you must mean with strength).

I’m not saying all choices should be locked down. Giving players choices during the fight is always a good thing, however what all shooters missed so far (okay TF2 got close) is a factor that can’t be changed during the game and you have to deal with no matter what. That’s what the body type really adds to the game and if you remove the lock on it it becomes just another part of the load out. It doesn’t really add anything to the game anymore because players will always be picking whatever fits their need at that time.

If you pick a body at the start of the game you will have to deal with that you might not be able to take all the routes or will never have the full range of guns at your disposal. That adds allot of weight to the choice.

Again, we keep talking past each other because we’re talking in different scales here. I already explained why I think discussing body-types on a per gun fight basis is irrelevant.

(Mustang) #244

Imo you would be better to say “selection of guns” rather than “range of guns”
I know you qualified it with “you can *choose from”
However selection is less ambiguous, as range may be read as weapon range
i.e. distance bullets can be fired

(shirosae) #245

[QUOTE=H0RSE;204663]Yeah but this isn’t Guild Wars…it’s Brink, and you DO get to change your class…

I had a nice debate set up, but it’s pointless, because it’s like arguing with a wall with you.[/quote]

tl;dr:

Rahdo: I think that if we let players switch during a game, they’ll do stupid things like all switch to heavy because they think it’s best for defence.

Me: Wouldn’t that be more likely to happen if you don’t let other teams counter that behaviour? I can see the randomness of teams causing some scrubs to quit. For an example of this behaviour just to prove that it does actually happen, see RA in Guild Wars.

You: This is a horrible reason to quit a game, because in GW you’re choosing an entire class and not just a body type.

Me: No, I wasn’t saying it was good logic to quit an RA game, I was using it only as an example of how scrubs will quit when they sense that their randomly assigned teams aren’t ‘playing properly’. The point was that by fixing Brink body types, you add a random factor to team composition that scrubs will moan about. This is what Rahdo was saying he was trying to prevent.

You: How can players be random? They all get to choose their body type?

Me: The combination of teams is random in GW. You don’t get to choose based on your teammates choices, and your teammates don’t get to see your choice before choosing themselves. This is where the randomness comes from.

You: But this isn’t Guild Wars!!!

If restating what the argument is actually about when you repeatedly fail to grasp it makes me a wall, colour me a wall.

is made of bricks

If you can change body type during warmup, then that’s the ability to change when you’re in a game, isn’t it?

The way everything has been explained so far, you need to set your body type with the character customisation thingy, and only then do you connect to a server.

Even if you do get to choose during warmup, you only get a clear picture of what’s going on if you’re one of the last to choose. What if you’re the first one on the server? Do you sit about waiting to pick a body type like the GDF-only scrubs in ETQW?

Still, I’d be much happier if I’m able to choose body type during warmup than I would if I’m forced to do so before I connect. At least then I’d have some information to use when making that choice.

The irony is that if they actually believed that certain body type combinations weren’t better than others, the ‘counter everything superman’ argument wouldn’t even be an issue… because by definition the body type combinations would all be balanced. If a team full of heavies can do as well as a team full of lights, it doesn’t overpower my team if they swap between the two mid-game. Except that it does. But it doesn’t. But it does.

Rather than anything as simple as rock-paper-scissors I see the body type choice more as a facilitator for various tactics - like sudden rooftop flanks with grenade launchers when the other side chooses to turtle down at a choke point; it makes sense to grab a bunch of light players to do the quick moving, though maybe the other team have noticed and are holding back a player or two’s body type change to see what you’re trying first.

(H0RSE) #246

You are using the game mechanics from GW as a comparison for Brink, when they aren’t even the same…

I have looked over all your posts/arguments with other members as well…I’m just callin them as I see them…you are like talking to a wall.

(Albatrossy) #247

@ OP:It really depends how much I like the new SMART feature. While I have always loved zooming around the map in a fast and orderly manner, sometimes I just want to blow everything to hell. I don’t see myself using the regular body type all that often though. Although it may provide a good balance between the two, when I am going fast, I want to be the fastest. The same goes for the best (well, biggest) guns in the game. Hopefully, small body types can’t go around the map knifing (more or less shotgunning in Brink) everybody they see like people do in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2. 'Tis annoying, very annoying.

GW EDIT: I didn’t see this huge conflict above my post. Guild Wars is an MMORPG not a FPS although some can agree that it does have RPG elements. With that being said, Guild Wars is a point-click-spell-spell-counter kind of game while Brink on the other hand is nothing of the latter. Sure, you might point and click but that’s either to blow stuff up, heal somebody, repair something, jump, and so on. In Guild Wars, it is a game that includes no XYZ axes but rather only X and Y. Z being jumping, crouching, sliding and so forth. I am a big fan of Guild Wars and I can truly say that they seem to be completely different games. Guild Wars also has grinding where runes, builds and armor is taken into consideration. In Brink, mostly everything is purely aesthetic so you don’t have to go scouting for days on the best loot. Just my two cents.

Nobody is failing to grasp anything you say. We are failing to realize why you keep trying to make connections between two games which are, from my understanding, completely different. If you have ever played a First Person Shooter (which from the likes of it, you probably have) you should know that, in Brink, it requires accuracy and patience to get a point rather than a chain of spikes that you would see in Guild Wars.

(ap4thy) #248

Loving games like Mirror’s Edge and Assassin’s Creed, I will definitely try to make the most out of the SMART system, so Light is my first choice. I’m hoping a Sniper & SMG/Handgun combo would work well with it.

(Reanimator) #249

You and me have a lot in common! :smiley:

(WhiteAden) #250

this is my reasoning for choosing Medium… it’s not the fastest tool in the shed, but you are able to move around, carry a variety of weaponry and take a punch in the face with some dignity…

it will most likely be reasonable in speed, (I know that I’ll screw up when I’m too fast :p) but slow movement annoys the crap out of me…

(tokamak) #251

I personally love the slow heavy in TF2, it takes some effort to get him in the right place, but just the thought of the amount of havoc he’ll cause when he’s finally there is enough to get me going.

(Lequis) #252

Here’s the part of this forum poll where I complain how Heavy is OP:

Wait, apparently only ~10% of ppl like Heavy. This would be good news if that were the real statistic.

(brbrbr) #253

medium class.
reliable all-purpose workhorse for all classes, except soldiers or operatives, maybe[depend tactics/skills].

p.s.
can i vote for Angelina Jolie body ?

(3Suns) #254

You know what I love about TF2 in public rooms, every class in the hands of a skilled player can be devastating. I have seen it all. I have seen a spy run through our whole team and wipe us out. A Heavy go from one CP to the next, taking them all. As a Scout, I have personally blitzkrieg-ed the other team and captured not just the first, but all three CPs before they even knew what hit them.

Similarly, there is nothing slow about a Soldier or a Demo rocket jumping/sticky bombing their way above and beyond the enemy.

I look forward to seeing what can be done with the classes in Brink.

(Lequis) #255

Light all the way. The less my opponents think the better.

(hellspawn7) #256

I brought this up once I’ll bring it up again how slow is slow in terms of Brink we don’t there’s been no video so Heavy may be a little bit faster than you think.

(Roaven) #257

Medium. Don’t want to sacrifice speed for health or vice versa.

(Baumbo) #258

Heavy, as most people are picking light. They can run as fast as they want. They have to peek out to shoot me anyway, and I will laugh at their peashooter as I devour thier soul, with my explosives.

(Reanimator) #259

Light is my favorite just because of the speed and athletic ability, but I’m going to have several different characters with different body types.

(INF3RN0) #260

Again body types are under the assumption that your counter balancing your abilities (like the XP–>Unlocks). Now as to how much of a difference this really makes… we do not know without actually playing the game in different scenarios. Body type variation might become an important key to having a well balanced team, just as much as class variation. Some body types might turn out to be better for a specific class also. If that is the case, then you get people always playing the same class or classes that fit their pre-selected body type, and this is where I can see problems. I think that swapping between body types mid game is probably something to avoid, but I do think that players should be able to setup varying body-types per class in warmup or before joining a server. This way people can experiment and then decide how they want to play, while ensuring the enforcement on balance and team play. Just my 2 cents, but I think SD should consider it.