This is why you can make multiple characters, with different body types. And also, this isn’t CoD. The gameplay will be entirely different. If changing body types means you need to change to an entirely different character you’ve made, then this makes sense. But there should still be some sort of restriction or control mechanism, to avoid massive spamming of the feature.
And their isn’t a ‘sniper’ class. Here’s part of an interview talking about sniping and CoD.
–
[I]“We’d rather have closer engagements. For example, we don’t have any really hardcore sniping in this game. There is a more accurate rifle that fires a bit slower, but the whole sniper alley thing just isn’t enough fun for enough players.”
“I tend to think of this game as the shooter that will convince people who don’t like multiplayer shooters that, yeah, you do, if it’s done right,” adds Ham, revealing that he was previously one of those people. “I’m really the target audience. I love Call of Duty, I’ve loved them all - even the Treyarch ones. But I’ve always finished the story campaign and then just walked away. I would never go online because it’s really just a cesspit of the foulest of humanity.”[/I]
“There won’t be any snipers poppin’ headshots from 2 miles down the road.”
This game is not CoD. The gameplay will be completely different.
If they implement changing body during matches, they should be limited either how many times you can do it, or have like some kind of timer shared for the team. Like “player X switched characters,” and now you have to wait a certain amount of time before you can change, or maybe even have a set limit of changes per team.
you could even have it so you earn a body/character change by doing good in the game.
[QUOTE=Reanimator;204336]I thought you were able to change body types at the beginning of the match and that was it, you just have to wait to the next match.
Or did I misread something??[/QUOTE]
That’s the deal for “official” games. The discussion is about why competition players should be able to have it differently. What value does changing body types add to competitive gaming? I don’t see any at all. This discussion is actually far more interesting to league organizers than the developers.
Just give us the option to turn either body type changing or character changing ‘on’ or ‘off’ if that is possible. Then the community will decide which they like better for competitive play and you won’t have anything to do with it anymore and everyone is happy
If you add the endurance system from SH (you build up an xp multiplier the longer you stay on a server), then changing characters mid-game sorts itself out. If you relog and pick a different character (or even without having to relog) you destroy all the endurance you’ve build up and need to start again to get an xp bonus.
odd, i wrote up and posted a very long answer to shir awhile ago, and just noticed that it’s missing. i spent like a half hour on it. will have to figure out what happened there.
anway, keep up the discussion. it’s very good, and useful for us to see you guys working through the kinks and issues like this.
Ragoo it’s important to split the discussion. As far as I know there already is a consensus that league organisers and server admins should be able to do whatever they want with their custom servers.
So let’s leave that red herring aside and stay on the subject what would be better for gameplay (and naturally the best option should be part of the ‘core’ gameplay, the one the ‘pure’ servers will be running), which can be divided in another two sections; public and competition.
So far I can only see emotional arguments that come from the fear of not having a choice and the best available set up at all times in favour of being able to change in-game.
When I join a Random Arena match in Guild Wars, I don’t get to choose my class based on my teammates. My teammates don’t get to choose based on mine. None of us get to choose which classes to play with, or get to choose how our team is constituted.
We pick a class based on no information, and then are randomly assigned a team, which includes random classes, because random players are chosen from those waiting.
In Brink, I have no way of seeing what my team or the other team have chosen, and so have no information to make a decision about body type on. If I’m playing in the story mode, I’m placed with random players who have all chosen body types with no way of knowing what I’ve chosen.
My teammates are essentially random, and the enemy is essentially random.
No, a ‘hardcore server’ is the name Rahdo has given to the comp and promod style servers he said he wants in the game.
If anything, the newbie servers would be the ones with body type locking, in order to prevent skilled teams from raping them by organising their respawns. The same way vanilla servers have lottery weapon spread, no spawn killing rules etc.
No, I’m not.
I’m going on about being able to choose a body type at a time when I have a reason to make that decision, rather than before I have a reason to make that decision.
It just happens that that could also be adjusted into another gameplay mechanic so teams have the option of another layer of tactics and counters. Being able to change body type once every four minutes when you go back to your command post is hardly a superman build.
I guess it’s lucky that I didn’t actually ask for that, then. What I did ask for was the ability to change body type at command posts with a timer.
Strawman.
A choice is when you make a decision based on some intent. There is no information I can use to choose a body type when I’m forced to pick one before the game starts. If the bodytype were a geniune choice, I’d have no problem being forced to deal with that choice.
If, for example, I had a four minute timer on changing body types, I’d have no problem dealing with the results of that choice. I would, in fact quite enjoy dealing with the results of that choice. That is the entire point of what I’ve been saying over and over and over.
As said many times previously, my argument doesn’t revolve around the idea that some class-body combinations are bad or good.
Is this what you’re asking: Would I want everyone locked into the ‘medium’ body-type?
I dunno; I think it depends on how the body types interact, and I really don’t have enough information on that to make a decision.
I’m starting to be of the opinion that I’d rather all this body type stuff went away, though. Increasingly it sounds like more of a random hassle than it does a gameplay element. I must admit I did consider just making a mod that removed all the body type stuff and instead rebalanced movement/hp/loadouts so people could just play on a level field without worrying about the hassle.
As far as I can tell, being able to change body on the fly does away with pretty much all of the silliness that this body type stuff brings, provided that the changing is regulated by a timer or command post mechanic.
I’m not really too worried about certain body combinations being imba; changing body types on the fly wouldn’t fix those imbalances if they did exist.
My problem with locking the body type is that I have absolutely no way of making an informed decision about which body type to choose.
I tend to prefer faster gameplay, so it makes sense to choose the light body type. I also like being able to go face to face with another player and shoot them in the face first, though. So I need to choose between combat or movement skills, I don’t get to do both? That sounds like a backwards movement.
Will light players struggle in combat against heavies? If that’s the case, it makes sense to pick medium so I can take advantage of the extra HP whilst still having a movement advantage… but I have absolutely no information to make that decision on. Will there even be any heavies on the other team? What if they all choose light and I’m forced to camp for the map? Will the other team also all pick medium and render the whole body type thing useless because we could all just have picked light and had more fun with faster movement?
This body type ‘choice’ that’s being touted isn’t a choice at all, it’s something that I might as well roll a RNG for all the good my decision will do. I can see myself picking medium every time, just because I have no way of determining when the other choices make any sense.
Man, I hate when that happens. Well, I appreciate the effort anyway.
[QUOTE=shirosae;204655]In Brink, I have no way of seeing what my team or the other team have chosen, and so have no information to make a decision about body type on. If I’m playing in the story mode, I’m placed with random players who have all chosen body types with no way of knowing what I’ve chosen.
[/QUOTE]
Same with trading card games. That’s the whole point. It means that you can’t just only react to their moves, you’re also forced to have your own plan.
My problem with locking the body type is that I have absolutely no way of making an informed decision about which body type to choose.
And neither does anybody else. The big winners here are the people who not only have their plan but can also improvise the best.
Yeah but this isn’t Guild Wars…it’s Brink, and you DO get to change your class…
I had a nice debate set up, but it’s pointless, because it’s like arguing with a wall with you.
I will say this: BODY TYPE CHANGING MAKES NO ****ING SENSE!
You can’t have like Billy Badass join the fight, “Hey yo! I just got done bench pressing some Buicks, let’s kick some ass!” and then 10 minutes later be like, “Aw man…hold up a sec, let me drop 100lbs. so I can climb over this building.” …it’s ****ing stupid.
And even if you made it so every time you changed body type you had to change characters, people would still complain. Let’s say your Heavy guy is maxed out in medic skills, and you joined the game because of that reason. Then you play for awhile and think, “man, my guy needs more speed…but my light and medium guys are soldier and engy speced…awww, shitballs!” And now you have all these other complaints and 10 more pages of debate.
I don’t find realism a good argument when discussing gameplay. IF changing body-types works better than not than that should have priority over whether it’s realistic or not.
But it doesn’t work better and that leaves the other half of the argument, changing body types ad hoc only degrades the feature and you might as well remove it al together if you want a truly level playing field.
But a lot of the things they are implementing into the game are based on what does/doesn’t ‘make sense.’ It doesn’t make sense that just because I’m an Engineer I always get a shotgun, so they have weapon loadouts. It doesn’t make sense that if an obstacle is 1 pixel too high, you can’t jump over it, which the SMART system takes care of. It doesn’t make sense that a 200+ lbs guy, can climb over a 20’ wall with ease, and it does make sense that big guys can use big guns, via the body type system. And it doesn’t make sense that I can change the physical makeup of my character during a match…it doesn’t even make sense to change it before or after a match.
Now I’m pretty sure that if body changing is added to the game, you will have to change to a different character, but as I mentioned in the above post, I don’t think this will be 100% effective solution. Because from what I read, people want to be able to change body types WITH the character and skills they are currently using, not have to swap out for a whole new guy.
When you join a W:ET game you go to limbo menu where you pick class, you can see who’s what there. There’s no reason to believe Brink will be any different, I see no randomness.
[QUOTE=tokamak;204664]
But it doesn’t work better and that leaves the other half of the argument, changing body types ad hoc only degrades the feature and you might as well remove it al together if you want a truly level playing field.[/QUOTE]
Changing weapons ad hoc only degrades the feature of having different guns in the game and you might as well remove it all together and give everyone the same gun if you want a truly level playing field.
You seriously think that if you could change your body type on command posts they wouldn’t matter any more?
I just don’t get it. If you are running around as a light you are light. You are fast but weak, can only handle the small weapons and you are an excellent climber. That are all the things you get while you are playing and if you ever want to play differently you go to the command post and change your body type/character (I prefer character) just like you would change from shotgun to grenade launcher.
It’s not like we want it changeable while in a gun fight.
You run around as a light guy and as soon as you spot the enemy you are going heavy by clicking a button. I wouldn’t like that.
Of course we both haven’t played the game yet so I won’t say it works better. I just mean we should give it a try and have the option to turn it ‘on’ or ‘off’.
edit: btw I played some Team Fortress 2 yesterday and liked it. It’s fun to have all these different characters
Guess what H0RSE, if your character dies in BRINK, he just respawns. Now explain how that makes sense please.
i spent like a half hour on it. will have to figure out what happened there.