Which body type is your favourite? (part 1)

(tokamak) #201

Oh come on, heavies are great in offence in TF2, they’re useless to capture the intelligence with but breaking through choke points works just fine.

If you’re playing with a body type the way its’not supposed to be played then that’s your problem.

(ThunderWank) #202

The thing is though, when I’m playing offensivley in CTF I want to be the guy running with the flag not the guy helping the guy with the flag. And as a heavy that’s just an idiotic move. So with the ability to switch body types during a match I’d be able to play some defence at the start and what that got old I couild switch over to light for some offence. In my opinion it can do nothing but add to the gameplay. But that’s the problem with this thread it’s all opinion based…so I doubt any progress is going to be made.

(H0RSE) #203

Having a set body type for the entire match is all about adapting…It’s also a new gameplay element. Taking the choice you made, and using it to the best of your ability is the essence of adapting.

Where is this ‘huge handicap’ you speak of? All players can be all classes, so the game still plays out normally. It’s not like “Aw man! We got Heavies on our team…they can only be 1 class :(” There is no ‘huge handicap’ it just makes people have to reevaluate the situation, and act accordingly. Learn the pro’s and con’s of the different body types, so you know what to do when the time arises. Like was mentioned earlier, “All body types can acieve the same goals, they just do them differently.”[/QUOTE]

It depends on your playstyle. Some people prefer speed, some people prefer balance, some people like big guns, and lots of health. To say most people will play medium, is purely speculative. People are going to choose what they are most comfortable with. This is how SD intended the campaign to play out. If you want changeable body types, make it a server option, for non-campaign games.

in other words, make the game simpler, and iron out any bumps in the gameplay. Throwing out problem solving, tactics and working with what you have, and replacing it with the ability to always choosing the optimal build.

Where is this ‘unfair advantage?’ is it in the same fantasy land as the ‘huge handicap’ you mentioned earlier? It works both ways you know…The opposing team could spawn with what you guys would call, a’ perfect setup.’ Then where is my ‘unfair advantage?’ To me, it’s about creating a character, and actually using that character throughout the match. It gives me a sense of accomplishment knowing that the guy I chose went in to battle, and did his role on a team as intended.

I think of RPG’s and respecing. Certain games allow to reallocate all your skill points. In Brinks terms, would see this as changing my class, which is ok. But if I had the option to respec his points and change his race and attributes and weapon specializations, whats the point of creating a character? And it’s also about common sense, and immersion.

If I join a match as a Heavy, I chose Heavy for a reason. I’m expecting to fill a role, and play a certain way. It doesn’t make sense that throughout the match, I am Heavy, Light, Medium, and then Heavy again. Changing the skills you have (classes) is entirely different from changing your physical appearance and attributes. It’s all about “this is the team you have…this is the team they have…now battle.” I like the idea of having an initial choice, and then playing with the cards you’ve been dealt. And the same for the opposing team.

(tokamak) #204

There isn’t really offense /defense switching in Brink. You either attack with your team or you defend.

And if you’re really afraid of having picked the wrong type, then why not go medium? That’s the type for people who don’t want to risk ever being at the wrong place with the wrong body.

(ThunderWank) #205

Which brings me to my original argument. Eveyone is just going to run medium. As Horse (I think) stated this is just pure speculation, but I think I’ve got grounds making this comment. But like I stated before most of these arguments are based on preference and opinion.

(stealth6) #206

what’s the point of creating a character? - Pure cosmetic values, at the end of the day it’s an FPS so all the RPG elements can go f’ themselves imo

But don’t worry if you read Rahdo’s post then the system is already set to your likings so this discussion is over.

Btw I just did a scrim so might be the reason this sounds a little edgy

(Ragoo) #207

Yeah, so let’s pick a weapon at the beginning of each match and stick with it.

Because it’s fun to play shotgun all the time, right? I mean, it may not be perfect for every situation but you chose it, so be creative about how to use it the whole map.

See what I mean? Weapons work the same. There is no overall best weapon suited for every situation. Close combat - shotgun is better, long range - sniper rifle and so on. So wouldn’t it be stupid if you couldn’t change your weapon for a whole map?

If you had to choose one weapon before the game starts and stick with it, more than 80% of the people would use the most basic and balanced Assault Rifle they could get because you don’t want to be super powerful with the shotgunl at the indoor first objective and then become completely useless at the second very open outdoor objective.
I would love to see very extreme characters with very specific roles without having to fear that your team becomes shit and unbalanced if you chose the character before you join a match and can’t change it afterward.

The same way I think about body types. It’s just another variable of the game. You may want to choose heavy in the one situation and light in another.
I don’t say that it’s unwinnable if you have a team of only grenade launcher guys and so I don’t think it’s unwinnable if your team is all heavy but I guess it would be a handicap and I would want to change my body type in a situation like this.

So please SD give me the server option to turn it ‘on’ or ‘off’ :slight_smile:

edit: Just realized that if you chose light you can’t even use many weapons for the whole match which in my opinion sucks :frowning:

(H0RSE) #208

Not quite the same thing. A weapon is something that is easily changeable in a battlefield or command post. The actual physical makeup of your character seems to be a bit harder to change…

(Ragoo) #209

Ah, so that is your problem? Rahdo once said in an interview that what they are trying to do is let you change your character. So you have created multiple characters and in a match you can say “We really need a heavy medic now - I will bring in my other character” and then you will play as him :wink:

(tokamak) #210

You’re oversimplifying this. But even in your simplification I can say that yes, there’s even nothing wrong with choosing a weapon load out at the start. I think COD has it, and I’ve been playing Raven Shield for years which worked fine with it. It was great having to think ahead of the game about what you were planning to do.

However, Brink has different classes and I can understand some flexibility might be welcome.

Weapons, classes, are quite sturdy inflexible buggers you can only do specific things with. Body-types however, are about accents, far more dynamic.

(H0RSE) #211

I already proposed the idea that if you changed your body type, you would have to bring in a new character, rather than change the 1 you have.

(tokamak) #212

I would agree with that as well. An appropriate drawback would be an endurance reset.

(Anti) #213

So based on this epic debate, if you were playing a competitive game of Brink for the title of ‘Ruler of the Tapirs’ would you want body types locked to a single type for everybody? Or to be able to change them on the fly? I’m just wondering if you folks feel it’s lack of choice that’s the issue or fear of an imbalance between them.

(tokamak) #214

First of all, I’m going to state the obvious and say that of course, any league should be able to set it’s own rules no matter what. So there should always be a choice in whether you want to have a choice or not in competitive play.

However, disabling choices does NOT equal ‘less competitive’. Many games feature playing matches with choices made before you started. The tradeable gaming card deck analogy still stands. Especially clans should be able to devise tactics ahead of a game and the right body-types to go with it. I’ve been playing some scrims in Raven Shield (another example of locked choices) and we did have a short team-briefing where we discussed who took what weaponry and which locations where to be covered every time we had a match coming up.

I don’t think it’s coming from the fear of an imbalance between them, not in competition at least, if you go back through the thread you’ll see that this argument is mainly tied to public gaming where you have no control over the rest of your team and would like to adapt. There’s a difference between composing a team in agreement with the rest of your clan, and being shuffled into a public mix. So it’s important to keep these two sides of the argument apart.

If I understand the ‘real’ competitive player well, and I don’t want to put words in their mouth, what they really want is to ban all randomness in their games so the outcome of the match is always down to the team’s own performance and not luck. They don’t want people being able to blame it on anything else after the game has ended.

Even though getting to select your body-type whenever you like, just like weapons and classes may sound more ‘pro’. Personally I think it would knock off the advantage a prepared and disciplined team would have over a group of individuals who just make it up as they go along. The ‘Stratego’ factor of the game would be gone completely in favour of a flattened play-field. I already drew the example of ‘chess vs poker’.

Rock, paper, scissors can be very pro if you get to change your hand after you know the outcome, it can turn in an incredibly frantic game even, but it defeats the main point.

(H0RSE) #215

I don’t think it is an imbalance issue, or a lack of choice. From what I have read/seen, When you choose a body type for your character, it is permanent. If you want to use a different body, you have to use a different character.

So if someone builds a Heavy, chances are, it’s because they are comfortable with that sort of playstyle. So how would it be an imbalance issue to have a game filled with body types people are comfortable playing? Even if it was something like all Lights vs all Heavy (which would be unlikely) the players are most likely skilled using those body types, and can adapt to situations like this. You can still change your class and your weapons. And if body switching is implemented, you can change that as well, you would just have to use a different character that may have different skills and/or abilities.

I think a lot of people are wanting the most optimum FPS experience they can have, and saying FU to all the rpg elements. They need to realizie that this isnt W:ET or QW. This is a new IP with new gameplay mechanics, and the rpg elements of the game (I think) are there to merge with the FPS experience, not be an optional one. To just say FU to the rpg part is naive, since it plays a role in the overall gameplay. You want a Light, Medium, and Heavy guy? You have to create a Light, Medium, and Heavy guy, and play each of them long enough to unlock any skills and such that you want. Which further emphasizes the how the rpg element plays a role in the game.

And as there being as “lack of choice…” You can make a bunch of different characters, you can customize them all from their looks, abilities, and body types. I would say their is plenty of choice. I like what Ed Stern said in an video interview:

“It doesn’t make sense that you could change body type during a game. You know, I mean… (makes animation and sound of someone transforming from big to small instantly)…What would you do? How would that work?”

It does however make sense if you wanted to change body type, to have to change to an entirely different guy.

(Nail) #216

I agree, 1 body per character
but maybe character change in game could solve some peoples worries

(ThunderWank) #217

[QUOTE=Nail;204331]I agree, 1 body per character
but maybe character change in game could solve some peoples worries[/QUOTE]

Honestly that’s what I hope for. What if you’re playing a dominaton game type and your hole team spawns as lights. Good luck defending a post. Now if you could change class/body type at said post it’s value increases even more. It’s always best to have more options in my opinion.

(H0RSE) #218

You obviously didn’t read my post…If they are all light, it’s because they all play a “Light body” playstyle. It’s not like you join a game and before the match, the computer decides what body you will play on a dice roll. If you had a team of all Lights, they are most likely all good at using that body type, no matter who you are playing against. If your skill is good, it shouldn’t matter what body type you have.

And I am pretty sure there is no ‘domination’ game type. In fact, I don’t think there are any game types, you just play the game, since there is no multiplayer or singleplayer option. The missions are objective based. You can maybe choose to play the campaign or just single missions, but I don’t think there are going to be different modes like, CTF, deathmatch, team deathmatch, etc. Guarding flags or posts for an entire match like in domination would only be like one part of a mission in BRINK, rather than the entire match.

(Reanimator) #219

I thought you were able to change body types at the beginning of the match and that was it, you just have to wait to the next match.

Or did I misread something??

(ThunderWank) #220

So you’re telling me that if I were to do a survey on CoD players who use Light Weight at least 80% of said players would use light weight on evey single class inclluding their sniper class, hard core and even AR? I highly doubt it. Variety is key in good gameplay my friend. I do understand your reasoning however and I think the option to only be able to change body types at certain stations would appease both crowds.