IMO with classless objectives, players are fighting in synchronicity with the bigger picture, the objective is being respected.
Ironically with the exclusion of a single objective class, players are bit more predictable now so its easier to frag.
Playing it more and more it makes a lot more sense given the small team sizes and the avg damage output.
Might be more relevant to discuss those matters in the already existing topics, this was “What time most people play?”
No 
Please get your head out of the other mode clouds and stop using them as a crutch to prop up a feeble argument. Yes, all that changed is the strategy towards completion, the problem seems to be that you fail to understand the importance in that shift… kill the entire enemy team to secure the objective, if you honestly think that’s the exact same mantra as it was before when we had specific class objectives and only certain chars were a danger to the objective progress itself then I don’t know what to tell you dude, you’re just completely off. If you decide to run all objective class then yes, you need to kill them all to be sure the objective is safe, what’s hard to grasp here? I make it sounds like people only went for the objective class? Really? That’s just due to your lack of understanding if that’s genuinely what you think… priority targets are just that, a priority… once he’s down then you go for secondary (I’m humouring you here because I know you don’t need it spelled out to you). You’re cherry picking parts of the point and dismissing all other aspects to suit your argument, THAT makes no sense.
If anyone can complete an obj, then your goal is to kill everyone in order to protect the obj. The ultimate goal is unchanged, which is why you can get all the kills you want and still lose if those kills don’t actually matter. If I really just have to be straight up… your wrong and don’t want to admit it?
What absolute drivel, you’re being narrow minded and dismissing the strategic implications and viewing it like a child “but you still have to do the objective to win!”… who the hell said otherwise?? It’s the complete shift in dynamic to reach that end goal that’s pissed people off, the strategic, decision making element has been abandoned in favour of plain and simple shooting… the mind game is gone. Old way: You plant a dyno and 3 enemy come at you, 2 medics and 1 engie… any player worth their salt is going straight for the engie and trying for the gib before they get killed. Quick thinking has stopped the dyno from being defused and given your team more time to regroup secure the area. New way: Doesn’t matter who you go for, if one of them survive then you’ve secured nothing. Lol I’m wrong and don’t want to admit it? Dude, you wish I was wrong, then you’d be able to stop fumbling with flimsy excuses.
I guess I missed how having to kill everyone versus one class isn’t an equal substitute. SnD is a valid example of an agnostic obj mode that is just as strategical, and since dying in DB only stunts your time set- kills by themselves still won’t earn you a victory unless they are coordinated and meaningful. Your the one who is claiming that not having a single obj class warrants a “do whatever the hell you want kill stuff” atmosphere. That’s completely illogical, which is exactly what I’ve been saying. Maybe you don’t know what your trying to argue about at this point because you seem to think giving the obj to a single class makes people play as a team more and focus on the obj more. All that does is make the team focus on protecting that class and forces that class to play extremely passive.
Both systems are means to the same ends- aka the obj- and simply differ in the strategy of play, rather than reducing it. Instead of just killing one person your now killing everyone, but only because your trying to protect the obj. The obj focus is not diminished in the least, while if anything it has drastically increased. When the obj is agnostic you pretty much need everyone to be entirely focused on securing it otherwise you suffer greatly. When it was just one class doing an obj you could avoid the punishment more often when half your team was off doing their own thing simply because you had less to deal with. So what are you talking about exactly???
Now the real focus should instead be on making certain agnostic objectives more equalized with those that have already been proven aka Doc Run- which strangely no one complains about or considers TDM. Proficiencies is one valid solution, but it could be furthered. What makes Doc runs less frustrating is the fact that although anyone can perform the task, only one person can actually do it at a time. C4 and repairs allowing for multiple player interactions simultaneously is problematic by comparison.
I think you got it right there.
Current build is kind of like SnD, but SnD has a slightly better feel to it since you only have 1 life. In DB you have unlimited and you’re concerned about the time, so the gameplay is much faster. So it feels like you’re just throwing yourself at the enemy until you break through.
You missed it by a country mile mate, and apparently still missing it…
SnD is a valid example of an agnostic obj mode that is just as strategical, and since dying in DB only stunts your time set- kills by themselves still won’t earn you a victory unless they are coordinated and meaningful.
Holy **** dude, you REALLY want to use other modes as an excuse… they have nothing to do with this! I couldn’t give a flying **** if SnD required you to knit a wooly jumper and put it on the bomb to keep is cosy… that has no implications on this discussion. I’m actually purposely avoiding explaining this properly to you because it’s really quite funny now.
Your the one who is claiming that not having a single obj class warrants a “do whatever the hell you want kill stuff” atmosphere. That’s completely illogical, which is exactly what I’ve been saying.
It looks like reading comprehension also took a jump out the window as well. Warrants it? A metronome swings back and forth less than you. First of all, you said ‘people play it like TDM anyway’ which to me sounds like you giving a justification to shift it towards that mindset… sounds like you’re saying that the players playstyles have warranted this change. My claim is that it’s the complete opposite, it’s the shift in strategic focus that has been causing players to adopt a TDM mantra. In the old way, 10 million fieldops would never defuse the dyno, but 1 engineer in that 10 million is a risk and needs to be stopped. The new way all 10 million medics are a risk and all need to be stopped to secure that dyno… so yes, kill everything and anything! Now instead of having to actively think of how to protect the objective and get at that engie, it’s just kill kill kill. Also, just because apparently this needs spelled out as well, just because you do kill that engie… you are actually allowed to keep shooting… no one ever said you just stop there. I’d explain why you need to keep shooting, but I honestly don’t think you need it, do you.
Maybe you don’t know what your trying to argue about at this point because you seem to think giving the obj to a single class makes people play as a team more and focus on the obj more. All that does is make the team focus on protecting that class and forces that class to play extremely passive.
You’re doing that thing again where you make stuff up, claim I said it then focus on it. My claim is the old way actively leeches on tactical and strategic thinking regardless if you’re on your own or with your team. As I said, any player worth their salt will be able to prioritize targets both friendly and enemy and it’s the mind-game that’s appealing and has drawn myself to objective mode… laws of averages tell me I’m not alone here. Once the mind-game is gone and the thought is geared towards killing everything then the appeal of objective mode is gone as well You should watch the WarWitch RtCW matches on Sundays, you’ll understand better… Base greatly highlights this.
Both systems are means to the same ends- aka the obj. Instead of just killing one person your now killing everyone, but only because your trying to protect the obj. The obj focus is not diminished in the least, while if anything it has drastically increased. So what are you talking about exactly???
The objective focus is completely diminished… you think everyone being a risk makes the team think more about the objective? WRONG! It’s makes them think more about eliminating the risks which is every single person… woohoo no need to think on my feet, just kill everything! There’ no strategic thought required, as long as you make sure everyone is dead then job done… there’s a linear, boring-ass thought process if I ever saw one, and this is why DB bores me to death just now.
[QUOTE=stealth6;464257]I think you got it right there.
Current build is kind of like SnD, but SnD has a slightly better feel to it since you only have 1 life. In DB you have unlimited and you’re concerned about the time, so the gameplay is much faster. So it feels like you’re just throwing yourself at the enemy until you break through.[/QUOTE]
In OBJ mode this would indeed be much more prominent, however in SW it is much less since every action has some influence on the time your setting or trying to beat. Though OBJ mode is meant as an introductory mode anyway.
I really dont get why people are here who dont want to test drastic changes. A couple of weeks ago, some alpha players asked for more changes (I’m one of them) and we got what we wanted. We have a lot of stuff to test now and we got the drastic changes we asked for. Ok, some are surprising but hey, we are still testing drastic changes. Many here want something like ET2/ETQW2 with the same mechanics etc. Why dont use this alpha to test something new which could create a awesome game? We are far away from CoD/BF series, sometimes I think the loudest screamers: ITS LIKE COD NOW, never played cod/BF …
This is my last post regarding the bitching and whining **** going on here, I’ll use my time now more to test what SD gives us to test and give constructive feedback. I hope the next update will tweak the settings of the new objective style. Thats all I’m going to add here.
[QUOTE=Shifty.;464263]I really dont get why people are here who dont want to test drastic changes. A couple of weeks ago, some alpha players asked for more changes (I’m one of them) and we got what we wanted. We have a lot of stuff to test now and we got the drastic changes we asked for. Ok, some are surprising but hey, we are still testing drastic changes. Many here want something like ET2/ETQW2 with the same mechanics etc. Why dont use this alpha to test something new which could create a awesome game? We are far away from CoD/BF series, sometimes I think the loudest screamers: ITS LIKE COD NOW, never played cod/BF …
This is my last post regarding the bitching and whining **** going on here, I’ll use my time now more to test what SD gives us to test and give constructive feedback. I hope the next update will tweak the settings of the new objective style. Thats all I’m going to add here.[/QUOTE]
Yes and when you test something you then give feedback. Not all feedback has to be purely from a technical standpoint, the mental impact the changes have on a player need to be fed back as well, and in my case, I don’t find this change fun and I’ve explained my reasons why quite accurately I thought… do you think playing it over and over again will change that for me? It’s not a glitch I can just avoid like getting stuck on a wall or a model disappearing, when it’s a core element that’s having this effect on me then it’s kind of hard to avoid and ignore.
Maybe it’s just that I’ve played a lot of SnD and find equal value in places you obviously don’t. Technically you’ll never like anything different when you’ve already convinced yourself that something is incontestably best, but I’m not the one trying to prove that A > B here. You’ll have as much luck proving that as your grandad claiming 1920s jazz is better than rock music.
DarkangelUK is right.
The biggest problem i see is at bomb planting and defusing. Its easy to plant a bomb but its much easier to defuse it. The defense always have a shorter way to the bomb.
In previous games 1 attacker could safe the bomb by sneaky killing the engineers. But now you have to kill all opponents and thats not gonna happen…
Sure i think SD will adjust the bomb defuse and plant time or even the time until the bomb explodes. Maybe we just have to wait and see how it will work out. But SD will not go back to the class system…
omfg inferno you need to get some sleep… At SnD you dont have a spawn system. Its unlike you have a 1on5 situation with a planted bomb… You really cant compare both gametypes…
I played nothing but SnD in CoD1 and CoD4, I just have the lateral thinking to stop using other modes as a crutch for my point. I like to believe that I have the brain capacity to deduce the reasoning of why something isn’t fun for me and others, it’s a simple mind that will claim it’s because we’re just used to the old way because they can’t think of anything substantial to back it up. I’ve given you actual reasoning for class specifics and why I prefer it and why I find it more mentally enjoyable and fun, you’ve just given “but its better” without a reason as to why.
[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;464196]That’s absolutely no excuse to gear it further towards TDM and it’s a poor justification for it. I don’t know about others, but I play objective based games like these because they’re objective based, if I wanted to play TDM then I’d go play TDM. When you’re on a team with a bunch of randoms and no in-game VOIP then you revert to the natural state of ‘kill everything that moves’ because it’s a shooter… regardless of this my mind is still on the objective and the objective class. For me that’s gone now, the tactical thrill was having the brain capacity to know who to kill and who to protect. To throw an inherent part of the gameplay and thought process away so frivolously and start bawling “but now you need to adapt” doesn’t cut it. You say people play it like TDM so these changes fit that, I’d say it’s the other way round. The objective is a mind numbing grind now, there’s no thought process, just kill everyone because everyone can undo your hard work… that just screams TDM
This release should never have happened without the proficiencies in place, surely they had some base values in mind. Either that or the hope was they’d get away with Team Deathmatch Objective mode (TDMO) and crank out more chars.[/QUOTE]
The bold is the reason why I was mislead I suppose…
You can clearly tell that your problem is that your just way too hung up on what you already enjoy. If the only time you get satisfaction or a feeling of worth when you kill someone is if they are the obj class then I can understand why things feel boring now. I still find plenty of thought occurring in my play even with agnostic objs, though I’ve simply shifted my focus towards adapting to the system, and I consider the requirement for coordinated teamwork greater more than ever. To me I feel like I am defending a zone, rather than attempting to sabotage a single few players. It’s a greater challenge when your one of the few focusing on the obj indeed.
For the record I never was using the statement ‘most people already play it like TDM’ as an excuse, but rather an ironic observation of how upset people get when they realize how poorly coordinated the teamwork is in game on average. Maybe that’s why you liked single obj classes so much since it allowed one thinking player to have more impact rather than requiring everyone to actually work together.
[QUOTE=INF3RN0;464273]The bold is the reason why I was mislead I suppose…
You can clearly tell that your problem is that your just way too hung up on what you already enjoy. If the only time you get satisfaction or a feeling of worth when you kill someone is if they are the obj class then I can understand why things feel boring now. I still find plenty of thought occurring in my play even with agnostic objs, though I’ve simply shifted my focus towards adapting to the system. For the record I never was using the statement ‘most people already play it like TDM’ as an excuse, but rather an ironic observation of how upset people get when they realize how poorly coordinated the teamwork is in game on average. Maybe that’s why you liked single obj classes so much since it allowed one thinking player to have more impact rather than requiring everyone to actually work together.[/QUOTE]
No, that’s just how your simple reasoning broke it down. I guess I do have to spell stuff out sigh and again you’re adding things that don’t exist… who said that’s the only time I get satisfaction or feeling of worth? I said I enjoy the strategic choices I can make as a player and as a team to best direct the course of the game and I enjoy the fact I have to think to begin instead of reverting to a caveman point and click player… who said it all stops there as soon as the objective guy is dead? The previous mode allowed for an impact at both the player and the team level. You’re just being obtuse now.
I think Inferno’s still high on his kidney stone medication…
Btw, this thread was about what time people play at. How did this conversation start?
Nope, that’s what you’ve been getting at. I find value in both systems, which is why I am simply saying that this system is simply an alternative.
So defense always defuses if offense can’t kill them all? Is that really a bad thing though? Obviously it isn’t working out well in DB at this given moment. Maybe having functional forward spawns or simply resetting defuse progress would be an option? Yes there’s always more to it.
[QUOTE=Seanza;464280]I think Inferno’s still high on his kidney stone medication…
Btw, this thread was about what time people play at. How did this conversation start?[/QUOTE]
I’m not high lol and I didn’t bring up the topic here, though the OP question already got answered anyway. I just don’t set every traditional ET system as the best means of doing something. I also don’t mind doing things differently if I feel like there isn’t loss without replacement. Something changed, but it’s most definitely not what has been described as mindless TDM. SD is more than likely going to stick with agnostic objs once they improve upon how they function and there won’t be much to oppose it other than “I liked it before”. Better to try and keep improving upon it rather than pretending to know what’s best. Same reason why I don’t waste my time trying to convince everyone that X game was the best ever made just because I happened to like it.
b2t:
I usually play tuesday till sunday, mostly after 8pm CEST till 10pm CEST, maybe longer on weekends 
The difference being the older version allowed for both play styles, the new one doesn’t.