Want a taste of SMART? Try the Crysis 2 demo

(H0RSE) #41

There is no skill in pushing one button and do all the parkourish things u dreamed thats oversimplify an mechanism that was first intoduced in fps in mirror edge and believe me mirror edge required more skill than this in terms of movement.There is a difference when u try a jump 20 times and u fail cause u didnt timed it right or u didnt have the exact speed for it but seeing another enemy or team8 does it and u say damn i must practise more to learn it and when u actually land it you feel you happy.

Mirror’s Edge is a parkour game - Brink is not.

The whole concept of Mirror’s Edge, is precise movements and button compinations - which makes sense to have a complicated system that challenges the player.

Brink is a team objective FPS - the “parkour” is just a small facet of the game. Aiming, shooting, strategy and tactics is where the skill lies (and should lie) in Brink, not trying to wall-hop across a gap or slide into cover - these things should be intuitive for the player, even when choosing to do them manually.

When they were first talking about the SMART system, Wedgwood wanted it to be about button combos and such, but after talking it over, they discovered that having a streamlined intuitive system was the better way to go. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgIXpesTIUI&t=3m17s

I beg to differ:

"And you can still use old-style jump and crouch to manually use vaults, mantles, slides and wall hops. It’s the combination of SMART and manual movement, however, that gives you the greatest versatility, freeing you to look around easily, and concentrate on bigger concerns. But for a tricky wall jump which could convert a mantle into a much faster vault, you might want to opt for a manual jump to get your timing just right, while still holding SMART to ensure you nail the vault. "

(MrX) #42

So from your post u agree that brink is oversimplified for people tha have no experience from similar games and that the company did it so more players join brink . I accept that . Far from it i analyzed the fact that sometimes smart may prove gimmick in terms of the simplified 2 buttons and 2 actions into one button 2 actions with my example of wall jumping and simultaneously look the enemy with your crosshair. In the end it gets down that going manually gives u the best movement in the game from what i read from your article so fair enough.

(H0RSE) #43

It doesn’t matter how simple or not the system is, it’s what you do with it that determines how much “skill” a player has.

(MrX) #44

Yes true ,but in certain situations something simple doesnt work and contains the player’s choices.For example:check cod when u are behind a car and u jump to see the enemy and automatically lifts u up in the car and u are a target for practice.

(Nuggedee) #45

In brink that won’t happen because the smart button doubles as the sprint button. Unless you are sprinting into the cover…

It’s a movement system for fps, not mirror’s edge which is exclusively parkour. You can use manual controls to speed up your movement though and more easily dodge.

(Nail) #46

I find his posts harder to understand than Basiley’s

(DarkangelUK) #47

I don’t think he actually knows what he wants. His oversimplified way of looking at things basically means 1 button = noob apparently. I’m also not sure where he’s getting these comparative situations from, since this is the 1st game to use this system. Seems like he learned how to strafe in Q3 and thinks every game should be like this, and anything that doesn’t need 3 different button presses per single jump is lame.

(Shiv) #48
  • lol quoting old post *

So uh… you miss the bit where doing it manually is faster/better… possible?

(longbow) #49

Hey guys isn’t there an option to do the parkour-type movement manually? And this makes you do it slightly faster yes? SO if you think that it’s over-simplified you can learn to do it manually and, ta-da you now have s slight advantage over those who move useing SMART. Problem solved.

(MrX) #50

[QUOTE=Shiv;258934]* lol quoting old post *

So uh… you miss the bit where doing it manually is faster/better… possible?[/QUOTE]

yup i missed that so im happy again:D

(Apoc) #51

Also i think you need to remember this is a team fps. Its going to be pretty hard as it is, trying to keep you aim tracked on the target if your sliding/vaulting and they are sliding/vaulting, never mind doing this while trying to press some wierd button combination. Sometimes simplifying one aspect of the game allows players to concentrate and enjoy the other aspects of the game. And in this instance i believe this is the case, teamplay and the fps element should be priority, as much as people enjoy running up and down walls.

To be honest there isnt much need for brink to put in the manual option, i mean its literally just them being really nice and knowing, “theres going to be loads of people who want this game to be really difficult so they feel special about having enough time to learn it”

Also dont take from this that i like over simplified things, nor that i cant shoot and move at the same time. Im trying to speak objectively from the point of view of general gamer.

(Cankor) #52

Well, if you look at the example they use you will see it’s not a need thing, it’s a natural extension. The example given was if you run up to a wall while pressing smart you will start to climb it as soon as you get to the base of it. You won’t jump when you are 3’ away because it’s not possible for the system to know what your intent is (you could be wanting to turn at the last minute, crouch and hide, etc.) So, SMART waits for you to hit the object before climbing it.

Now, since you know what you want to do, you can speed that whole process up by jumping before you get to the wall. You will therefore start the SMART movement a little higher than you otherwise would have, and that’s where the advantage comes from (plus maybe your up wards momentum is maintained).

Most of the examples they give of combining SMART with manual moves to make SMART faster are like this, knowing what you want to do and starting that move before SMART would be able to figure it out on it’s own and start it for you.

There are also examples where you need to do things other than just keeping the button pressed, like wall hoping, where you jump off the face of the wall instead of trying to climb up it. You need to do those moves manually since SMART would have no idea you wanted to jump off the wall and grab the pipe behind you (for instance) instead of just climbing the wall.

So yeah, there’s a need for the manual options.

(Apoc) #53

I tend to think of jump, sprint and crouch as sort of always in every game anyway, i was thinking more things like specific buttons for more advanced differant bits. I was thinking more that people wanted to do things like wall run manually through a combination of buttons, which would do the same as smart but faster if timed correctly.

But yea, i like the sound of how its comming. Was just trying to illustrate the fact that simplifying can help

(MrX) #54

[QUOTE=Cankor;258950]Well, if you look at the example they use you will see it’s not a need thing, it’s a natural extension. The example given was if you run up to a wall while pressing smart you will start to climb it as soon as you get to the base of it. You won’t jump when you are 3’ away because it’s not possible for the system to know what your intent is (you could be wanting to turn at the last minute, crouch and hide, etc.) So, SMART waits for you to hit the object before climbing it.

Now, since you know what you want to do, you can speed that whole process up by jumping before you get to the wall. You will therefore start the SMART movement a little higher than you otherwise would have, and that’s where the advantage comes from (plus maybe your up wards momentum is maintained).

Most of the examples they give of combining SMART with manual moves to make SMART faster are like this, knowing what you want to do and starting that move before SMART would be able to figure it out on it’s own and start it for you.

There are also examples where you need to do things other than just keeping the button pressed, like wall hoping, where you jump off the face of the wall instead of trying to climb up it. You need to do those moves manually since SMART would have no idea you wanted to jump off the wall and grab the pipe behind you (for instance) instead of just climbing the wall.

So yeah, there’s a need for the manual options.[/QUOTE]

well said thats why manual has to be an option

(Jess Alon) #55

[QUOTE=Apoc;258951]I tend to think of jump, sprint and crouch as sort of always in every game anyway, i was thinking more things like specific buttons for more advanced differant bits. I was thinking more that people wanted to do things like wall run manually through a combination of buttons, which would do the same as smart but faster if timed correctly.

But yea, i like the sound of how its comming. Was just trying to illustrate the fact that simplifying can help[/QUOTE]

In mirror’s edge wasn’t everything basically done with two or three buttons? There wasn’t even a sprint button. You just built momentum. There was a jump button that was ALSO the run up the wall button or the run along a wall button and it might have been the roll when landing button. (Even though you time button presses. That’s one button doing a lot of different things) And there was the crouch button that made you slide which really I never got much use out of unless I needed to clear a fence. The only button that really was a big difference was the quick turn (180) button.

The left bumper (xbox 360) in mirror’s edge did ALOT of the work in mirror’s edge. Go figure. One button. Where have I seen that recently?

I myself will learn all the tricks so I can get the upper hand. But if it’s too distracting and I’m not lining up my shots like I should I’ll hold down the button and shoot people in the face as I vault over that rail.

(tokamak) #56

Yeah that’s where a player gets the most out of the combination smart+manual. It’s not only using your resources, but also knowing when which resource to pull. Sometimes you want an automatic pilot while you can devote your attention to something else.

(Bezzy) #57

Every time someone says using SMART means you don’t have to use skill, I die inside a little. It’s an oversimplification to call it an oversimplification.

You have jump and crouch, like any other game. You can slide, vault, mantle and wall hop manually just fine. As a convenience you can use SMART on top of those, or you can ignore one for the other. The best players use both as and when they need them. Different tools for different situations. They’re not using it because they’re mollycoddled by ease-of-use features. They use it because it gets it done when they need it done. It just works.

As a general game design principle, if you lower the barrier to entry, you must raise the skill ceiling. SMART enables some fairly crazy stuff at high level play. It doesn’t just normalize skill - it gives new possibilities. A vault on its own might be a common occurrence, but you’ll still see chains of moves which really impress you. The other week I saw someone speed vault into a wall hop to cover ground, then drop into a slide, knocking the enemy down, all while being shot at. Covered about 20 meters in 2 seconds.

Lights can be frikkin’ ninjas, but you have to work for it.

(madoule) #58

thanks for that lil’ conclusion. i can’t frikkin wait to enjoy SMART and Brink in action.

EDIT: he said “ninjas” kihihihihi

(tokamak) #59

[QUOTE=Bezzy;259000]Every time someone says using SMART means you don’t have to use skill, I die inside a little. It’s an oversimplification to call it an oversimplification.
[/QUOTE]

The fault lies partially on SD’s side for using SMART for both the ability to do climbs and vaults and the system that conveniently automates it in the interviews. People now think they’re one and the same.

(shirosae) #60

[QUOTE=Bezzy;259000]Every time someone says using SMART means you don’t have to use skill, I die inside a little. It’s an oversimplification to call it an oversimplification.

You have jump and crouch, like any other game. You can slide, vault, mantle and wall hop manually just fine. As a convenience you can use SMART on top of those, or you can ignore one for the other. The best players use both as and when they need them. Different tools for different situations. They’re not using it because they’re mollycoddled by ease-of-use features. They use it because it gets it done when they need it done. It just works.

As a general game design principle, if you lower the barrier to entry, you must raise the skill ceiling. SMART enables some fairly crazy stuff at high level play. It doesn’t just normalize skill - it gives new possibilities. A vault on its own might be a common occurrence, but you’ll still see chains of moves which really impress you. The other week I saw someone speed vault into a wall hop to cover ground, then drop into a slide, knocking the enemy down, all while being shot at. Covered about 20 meters in 2 seconds.

Lights can be frikkin’ ninjas, but you have to work for it.[/QUOTE]

Every time you post you make all the Brink stuff that sounds silly/annoying fade away into the background, leaving only intrigue and anticipation behind. You need to post more.