To all the K/D haters out there...

(DazTroyer) #41

K/D ratios don’t really matter in objective based games, there is no I in Team guys.

(tokamak) #42

If I had a clan then I would recruit based on xp/hour.

Indeed, people need to learn that there’s no ‘i’ in Brink.

(BioSnark) #43

There’s a me in team and there’s definitely an I in Brink. Why else would there be all the customization stuff?

But it does matter who’s alive when. The problem with making this public is that it becomes an objective that can conflict with putting away your weapon and getting mission objectives done.

(RadBrad31) #44

I’m not saying K/D isn’t somewhat representative of skill, that would be silly. I think people rank it too highly though. Play with the guy, watch what he does in situations with what class. If he’s a soldier or operative, he should be higher in kills than medics or engs most games (except for maybe defense missions, where turrets can really turn a tide and gain kills). The ability to kill people when you need to kill people is a necessary ability and really does help a team. I just feel like if you judge someone on their K/D is like saying *Butterball isn’t an athlete because he’s fat.

*EDIT: Butterbean. Not Butterball. Lol.

(iezza) #45

And, if he doesn’t shoot, shoot him, hes an enemy operative

(RadBrad31) #46

Amen to that.

(zenixthepowner) #47

I agree with you, the objectives minded players play how they want on public, the Rambo/statswhores whatever just kill like they want. Just respect each other and let everyone have fun in there own way. Public play is meant for the public. Myself i like play aggressive on public and my objective is to be as annoying as possible while killing as much people as possible, hopefully near there spawn. Because i think like a competition player, and controlling the spawn and getting people on full is the way to to victory, next to the objective.

And further, ratio does mean something, if somebody has a really good ratio but you can see that he doesn’t have many kills means that he is a camper, just an example how i would look at it.

[QUOTE=tokamak;291758]If I had a clan then I would recruit based on xp/hour.

Indeed, people need to learn that there’s no ‘i’ in Brink.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, in FPS killing is the most important to reach objective, if you have someone in your team who plays mainly alone but is a killing machine, that ‘I’ will greatly benefit your team. Of course he isn’t able to do that without his team mates, but without that ‘I’ the team wouldn’t be that good. Just look at sports, the best teams have people who are like that, and need to be like that to be that good.

(NuMbzZz) #48

[QUOTE=RadBrad31;291733]So a Medic applies to your clan, and spends most of his time buffing allies or healing the escort or defending a chokepoint keeping a soldier alive. But his K/D is 0.90 so he’s denied?

K/D is such a bad way to allow or not allow someone in a clan. At least give them the benefit of a game to see if they’re worthy. I’m not saying this because I’m a low K/D player, I’m actually fairly high, but I love the players that put the team before themselves.[/QUOTE]

Thats an excuse. Im leader of a competitive clan so i need dependable ppl. ppl using medic as an excuse for subpar shooting skills is not what i want. I played medic in other games and guess what medic had to be one of the better killers just because he would usually have to clear out an clean up or clear out an 2-3 enemies before being able to get his comrade back up. No one likes a rambo medic, at least Brink does it a bit differently where u arent brought back right away by a rambo medic but instead u choose. Medic isnt a hard role to play either, u press a button to bring ppl up an buff them…not all that much skill required

If u actually look at my clan http://www.synergygaming.org/home u would actually see we put the team and win above all else especially personal stats but that isnt used as an excuse to recruit subpar players. Everyone must be able to take care of themselves hence we have a mininum 1:1 ratio for a tryout which is quite generous

(NuMbzZz) #49

it does if a guy/team does the objective
ppl associate high kdr too much with selfish, or camper play
why cant a guy have a high kdr and still push the objective and be a team player?

its like every forum u see ppl saying it doesnt mean anything because they associate it with selfish camper players too much. Why do u think top clans are at the top? because they have good killers and push the obj, ur not goin to get to the objective if u cant kill ppl…u know that right? u cant kindly ask the enemy to please let u plant the bomb etc and get the win…it dont work like that ur gonna have to kill and push up to the objective and be able to DEFEND the objective aka KILL ANYONE TRYIN TO TAKE IT BACK in order to win.

that is all.

(tokamak) #50

It’s among the most important things to reach the objective, all these things, minor or major things, are encompassed by xp, therefore xp is far more important than killing, FPS or not. Your dataset is very limited, mine is almost all-inclusive as there are very few useful things you can do that don’t award xp.

You illustrated it perfectly yourself.

Just look at sports, the best teams have people who are like that, and need to be like that to be that good.

A team with only players like that will lose over and over, yet a team with good defenders, attackers, sprinters, keepers and hitters all working cohesively together will reach the stars. All these little things are indicated by xp, you’re just picking a small part of all that and say that should be the only thing that counts.

killing as much people as possible, hopefully near there spawn.

See, that alone shows that you simply don’t have a clue as to what constitutes as a useful course of action. Killing people near their spawn will result in less xp than killing them near an objective for a reason. Killing people near a spawn won’t lose them as much time as when they travelled all the way to important objectives. They respawn within a few seconds so they can try again. You’re not letting travelling time be a cost to them.

I’m not fond of making things personal but it’s people like you who are a very good reason as to why killings as a bare statistic alone is almost completely useless to assess a player skill. It’s just dumb brute force doing inefficient things.

(iezza) #51

Also, you can spawn in the main base which is guarded by turrets.

(NuMbzZz) #52

[QUOTE=tokamak;291865]It’s among the most important things to reach the objective, all these things, minor or major things, are encompassed by xp, therefore xp is far more important than killing, FPS or not. Your dataset is very limited, mine is almost all-inclusive as there are very few useful things you can do that don’t award xp.

You illustrated it perfectly yourself.

A team with only players like that will lose over and over, yet a team with good defenders, attackers, sprinters, keepers and hitters all working cohesively together will reach the stars. All these little things are indicated by xp, you’re just picking a small part of all that and say that should be the only thing that counts.

See, that alone shows that you simply don’t have a clue as to what constitutes as a useful course of action. Killing people near their spawn will result in less xp than killing them near an objective for a reason. Killing people near a spawn won’t lose them as much time as when they travelled all the way to important objectives. They respawn within a few seconds so they can try again. You’re not letting travelling time be a cost to them.

I’m not fond of making things personal but it’s people like you who are a very good reason as to why killings as a bare statistic alone is almost completely useless to assess a player skill. It’s just dumb brute force doing inefficient things.[/QUOTE]

i disagree with this somewhat. Thing is IF YOU die by the objective ur screwed, killing them furhter away from the obj gives u breathing room should u die so u can get back to the obj and defend it before they reach whereas if u die right at the obj then its a free cap and u give them time to setup and now push YOU back to ur spawn

look @ MAG [PS3] the best clans knew that defending right at the obj was not smart as they could not afford the luxury of death cuz then the enemy gets a free cap and has time to setup while u now make ur way from spawn to the obj

(tokamak) #53

i disagree with this somewhat. Thing is IF YOU die by the objective ur screwed, killing them furhter away from the obj gives u breathing room should u die so u can get back to the obj and defend it before they reach whereas if u die right at the obj then its a free cap and u give them time to setup and now push YOU back to ur spawn

Flawed, if you die near their respawn then they have a lot of easy ground to cover without you standing in their way, they have all the momentum while you still need to recover. It’s ALWAYS better to have them spent as much time not doing anything before they die.

When teams are imbalanced it becomes easy to kill them near the spawn. It gives the illusion that the team is better because they’re spawn killing. However that’s an effect rather than a cause

(crazyfoolish) #54

The only time spawn killing is more effective is if the other team is playing badly. For example in the second stage of Dustbowl in TF2 i played in many games where defenders spawn camped the door of the attackers with sentries and stickies. This worked great for easy kills, however, all it took was one spy to slip past and capture the first point.
This may be a rather long winded example but my point is, it is nearly always better to defend near the objective.

(3Suns) #55

I’ve been quite outspoken about this for the past year+.

I just want to clarify, we absolutely need people to kill the enemy. I don’t know that Brink is going to encourage groups, or clans, to delineate “You slay, I’ll go objective” type gaming. I get the feeling that everyone is going to need to do everything to varying degrees, especially for maximum XP, but I love to roll with a good slayer and am happy to do the objective work while he/she has my back.

Now, here is a quick story about my son’s Halo:Reach gaming last night (again - this is in the 360 community, not PC). He was playing in the new playlists - Big Team Battle - Assault. The other team successfully armed the bomb twice and with about 10 minutes left, proceeded to spend the rest of the time, not arming the final bomb but spawn killing. The dude flying the Banshee got 80 kills.

Why do they do that? For the ego trip (like a bully), medals, and stats.

I enjoy checking my stats too, but I am becoming more and more aware of the double edge on the stats/medals sword.

Oh, and here is what Tycho from Penny Arcade has experienced in Gears of War 3

[I]- It’s been so long since I’ve had to cover multiplayer fundamentals, but it does happen. In fact, it’s happening now: you do not win King of The Hill matches (in Gears or any other game) by killing members of the opposite team.

It can help, certainly. The Hill itself should be well greased with foe-pulp. What I’m saying is that without capturing the hill, you can’t score any points. Devoid of a context which grants them value, all those sweet killz of yours are frenzied masturbation. I think there is a misconception at the root: the “Hill” in question is not a hill of corpses you pile up, and when it reaches a certain height it results in your coronation.
This is not what happens.

What happens is that the people on your team lose to no-account jackholes as a result of your gadabout excess. It would be one thing if you didn’t like King of the Hill as a mode, and chose not to play it; it’s another thing altogether to choose King of the Hill from the menu, explicitly selecting it, and then proceed to play some other mode while abrading the Goddamn social compact(!!!).
[/I]

(DazTroyer) #56

[QUOTE=NuMbzZz;291840]it does if a guy/team does the objective
ppl associate high kdr too much with selfish, or camper play
why cant a guy have a high kdr and still push the objective and be a team player?

its like every forum u see ppl saying it doesnt mean anything because they associate it with selfish camper players too much. Why do u think top clans are at the top? because they have good killers and push the obj, ur not goin to get to the objective if u cant kill ppl…u know that right? u cant kindly ask the enemy to please let u plant the bomb etc and get the win…it dont work like that ur gonna have to kill and push up to the objective and be able to DEFEND the objective aka KILL ANYONE TRYIN TO TAKE IT BACK in order to win.

that is all.[/QUOTE]

My K/D is most, if not all, games is 1.0 yet when playing Battlefield or MoH etc I’m in the top 3 more times than I’m not. When playing with my mates or a good “team” who play for the objective I usually win. You see it to often, the snipers in Battlefield on the other team, all camping with great K/D but losing the game. Now if you can combine both all well and good, its just the objective should always come first.

(Coin Op) #57

People going around killing other people within an objective is not a problem, but those people who are outside the objective camping a spot are.

When I hear KDR I immediate;y associate it with CoD. It was cool to have a KDR when it first came out, but now it’s become a bit of a fad.

The kiddies love to boast about their KDR but when I watch their screens or vids, I see unattractive gameplay. They are so concerned with their KDR that they become useless to their teammates. It’s the me, me,me mentality these days that ruins the online experience for a lot of people.

Ok, now being a REALLY good player with an impressive KDR, now those people are great to have around. A lot of people who boast high KDR’s are pretty much average players.

Look at vids of Husky or SandyRavage. Those guys will make any team good.

Bottom line, KDR doesn’t mean squat. It’s quality over quantity.

(NuMbzZz) #58

[QUOTE=tokamak;291901]Flawed, if you die near their respawn then they have a lot of easy ground to cover without you standing in their way, they have all the momentum while you still need to recover. It’s ALWAYS better to have them spent as much time not doing anything before they die.

When teams are imbalanced it becomes easy to kill them near the spawn. It gives the illusion that the team is better because they’re spawn killing. However that’s an effect rather than a cause[/QUOTE]

flawed. If u defend right on top ur objective ur also giving them time to cover ground without u standing in their way till they reach the objective and u run the risk i stated before of u dying and then giving up the obj and givin them time to setup whereas u would have time to reach back the obj before the enemy has time to cap it or properly setup to push u back giving them the momentum. My way gives u time to still reach back the objective and prevent them from taking it or properly setting up.

its NEVER ok to defend right on the objective.

watch some of my MAG games

56-0 sabotage game, notice we dont sit back in the compound and let them come onto us but instead push out , notice when ppl die they have time to reach back the objective without the enemy advancing too much


part1

part2

Acquisition Game, same thing notice we defend the bunkers from the front. If we sit back and let them get too close like you are suggesting then we run the risk of if we die they get a free plant on the bunker and all they gotta do is watch the doorways to the bunker and spawn kill us


part1

part2

PS: in MAG u got more xp for defending right on top ur frago’d objective but clans soon realised that wasnt the best way to defend as u have little room for error and the bonus xp for sticking close to ur obj was just meant as a way to get randoms to play more objective minded and have them stick next to it.

At the end of the day WINS > XP
i rather get the win anyday than sit directly on top my obj and risk losing it if we die

(evnted) #59

I feel like K/D needs to be in a game, but I strongly dislike it.

(Coin Op) #60

I kind of agree. I love having options. The more the better.

I just wished the gaming community grew up a little faster than it has been. People are still stuck on KDR and I can’t understand why.