Time to eliminate all bunny hopping!

(Matuno) #61

@Merciless I see your point.
We should give Vassili back his jump accuracy, 100%, and change his damage done to 15 per bullet when jumping, so that it’s more in line with other weapons.

(Merci1ess) #62

[quote=“Matuno;161614”]@Merciless I see your point.
We should give Vassili back his jump accuracy, 100%, and change his damage done to 15 per bullet when jumping, so that it’s more in line with other weapons.[/quote]

Right

Also make sure it shoots 2500 bullets per minute. Don’t be dumb, please.

(Jostabeere) #63

[quote=“Merciless;161610”][quote=“Merciless;161564”][quote=“Dustaz;161515”][quote=“Merciless;161469”]
I think the OP would like to have bunny hopping. Although when you take it away from 1 or 2 mercenaries, it’s not fair. Either you implement it for everyone or not at all.[/quote]

You can’t be that stupid. You should know the effect it has towards a sniper compared to anything else.

In a bolt-action rifle you have single shots right? You have one bullet to damage your opponent. If that bullet misses? That’s 0 damage. Now let’s take an SMG for example. How many bullets do you have in that clip? Do you see what I’m trying to say here?

I’ll make a video for dumbies.[/quote]

Here’s the video. Doesn’t cover all situations, but it’s just to prove a point. For some reason, and I just discovered this by making this video, the sniper’s spread is 10x worst then any other weapon. The SMG, when scoped, is dead on.

Is it possible for you to include the TTKs for the various weapons in this video and the amount of jumps you need? And use SMGs/ARs/shotguns on the same long range as sniper rifles?
Just for research.
Also, by seeing the Ahnuld part. Didn’t you say you destroy people with one shot from shotguns on long ranges multiple times? I saw you need 3 hits on 110 HP from…let’s say 10-15 meters. Or 5 from 20+ meters? This was your main argument back there.

(Sinee) #64

The fact that you can ADS with the Hochfir SMG at range and dink someone’s head reliably, and yet the sniper rifle… SNIPER…RIFLE* can’t do the same makes about as much logical sense as a screen door on a submarine. I’m still just baffled as to why like… four of you are not seeing it, but it doesn’t matter much.

@Matuno The damage per bullet is irrelevant when you factor in fire rate and clip sizes. In the time it takes to do the bolt action animation and acquire your target, you’ve already run out of ammo and the Hochfir has already killed and gibbed you regardless.

No problems with the Hochfir. But will forever, never, ever understand why one mercenary is excluded from using the amazing movement system with their primary weapon.

@Jostabeere mentioned Rhino not being able to jump with his minigun, but it’s not his primary; so there’s no argument to be had. He and everyone else can jump with their primary weapon. The minigun is his special ability. Now granted, I wouldn’t care if he could jump with it or not, raise it with the devs if you want him to. But if the same applied, the sniper rifle would be Vassili’s special ability, and his primary would be an SMG or something, but we can’t have that, can we?

(Merci1ess) #65

[quote=“Jostabeere;161616”][quote=“Merciless;161610”][quote=“Merciless;161564”][quote=“Dustaz;161515”][quote=“Merciless;161469”]
I think the OP would like to have bunny hopping. Although when you take it away from 1 or 2 mercenaries, it’s not fair. Either you implement it for everyone or not at all.[/quote]

You can’t be that stupid. You should know the effect it has towards a sniper compared to anything else.

In a bolt-action rifle you have single shots right? You have one bullet to damage your opponent. If that bullet misses? That’s 0 damage. Now let’s take an SMG for example. How many bullets do you have in that clip? Do you see what I’m trying to say here?

I’ll make a video for dumbies.[/quote]

Here’s the video. Doesn’t cover all situations, but it’s just to prove a point. For some reason, and I just discovered this by making this video, the sniper’s spread is 10x worst then any other weapon. The SMG, when scoped, is dead on.

Is it possible for you to include the TTKs for the various weapons in this video and the amount of jumps you need? And use SMGs/ARs on the same long range as sniper rifles?
Just for research.[/quote]

This is not scientific research. This is to prove a point that SMGs are more accurate then snipers when you jump. I think the TTK is clear. It took me waaaayyyy less time to kill my opponent just by me tap firing once with every jump with the SMG then with the sniper rifle. Imagine if I jumped and controlled my recoil to focus fire on the head. She’d be done in 1 or 2 jumps.

Seriously, you’re trying so fuckin’ hard here to be right. You’re just not. Deal with it.

Make a video that proves me wrong.

As for shotguns, most of the mercs that use a shotgun are very mobile. They use mobility to get up close and fuck you up the ass. You don’t need to stand far and shoot when you have the speed to get up close and personal. Again, this is to prove that with a shotgun, and like you clearly said yourself, 3 shots while jumping and bye bye Charlie. That’s more than enough.

(Jostabeere) #66

@Mercy So…Let me get it right. The minigun isn’t his primary, right? That’s why this isn’t an argument. But stickies and grenades are an argument even though they aren’t primaries either because you and your partner said so in a previous thread?

(Sinee) #67

I don’t recall talking about stickies or explosives in this thread. The only times I may have mentioned them throughout this whole debacle was to underline how people can easily jump and do things that do a lot of damage or one hit kill, and that’s okay. I don’t have a problem with that. The problem I have is people saying a jumping Vassili can’t be countered, when you can easily jump and hiff a grenade at him, flank him, or just play with common sense like it’s not Baby’s First Video Game.

(Jesus) #68

[quote=“Merciless;161615”][quote=“Matuno;161614”]@Merciless I see your point.
We should give Vassili back his jump accuracy, 100%, and change his damage done to 15 per bullet when jumping, so that it’s more in line with other weapons.[/quote]

Right

Also make sure it shoots 2500 bullets per minute. Don’t be dumb, please.[/quote]

Dont be agressive even if you are frustrated it only makes you look less credible,
no one ever proved his point by insulting people.

Other than this. this 15 damage thing is just bs. I dont see why there should be less damage a Vassili jump sniping at close range is most likely doing " a kill or die " agaisnt other mercs if he doesnt kill with the first shot its done. And you want to divide the damage by more than four. That would mean 30 damage on HS.
Thats not even a constructive proposition. It wouldnt be in line with other weapon since most of them have a god knows how many superior ROF. Im not for insulting and all of that but proposition like this can only get on his nerves you are trolling him
. The weapon was already on par with the other one.

(Jostabeere) #69

Not in this one. But you two complained about Fletcher being accurate with stickies and one shot killing people while jumping or Fragger/Nader spamming accurate grenades as a counter-argument against people saying Vassili was accurate and oneshot killing people while jumping. But Rhino does’t count because it isn’t his primary?
That’s some heavy hypocrisy here, sorry. You want fairness for all mercs as long as it favors the one you’re playing, and you don’t care about other mercs.
I’m for making shotguns and SMGs less accurate while jumping. But now we know stickies/grenades/abilities shouldn’t be nerfed because they aren’t primaries. Nice…

(Merci1ess) #70

[quote=“Jesus;161622”][quote=“Merciless;161615”][quote=“Matuno;161614”]@Merciless I see your point.
We should give Vassili back his jump accuracy, 100%, and change his damage done to 15 per bullet when jumping, so that it’s more in line with other weapons.[/quote]

Right

Also make sure it shoots 2500 bullets per minute. Don’t be dumb, please.[/quote]

Dont be agressive even if you are frustrated it only makes you look less credible,
no one ever proved his point by insulting people.

Other than this. this 15 damage thing is just bs. I dont see why there should be less damage a Vassili jump sniping at close range is most likely doing " a kill or die " agaisnt other mercs if he doesnt kill with the first shot its done. And you want to divide the damage by more than four. That would mean 30 damage on HS.
Thats not even a constructive proposition. It wouldnt be in line with other weapon since most of them have a god knows how many superior ROF. Im not for insulting and all of that but proposition like this can only get on his nerves you are trolling him
. The weapon was already on par with the other one.[/quote]

I wasn’t being serious with the whole 2500 bullets per minute thing. I was just dumbing down my intellect level to his in the hopes that we can establish communication. But I don’t know if it worked. I can’t go any lower.

(Matuno) #71

[quote=“Mercy;161617”]
No problems with the Hochfir. But will forever, never, ever understand why one mercenary is excluded from using the amazing movement system with their primary weapon.[/quote]
Because a sniper rifle deals more damage in a single jump than any other weapon can.

In ranged engagements, it means Vassili can kill most targets in one or two jumps without the foe being able to retaliate or find cover in time.

Other weapons need so many jumps, the enemy is alerted on the first jump, seen making coffee on the second jump, seen eating a sandwich on the third jump, and perhaps finally fled by the time you make the fourth jump.

The only case in which I mourn Vassili’s jump accuracy being shit is not when he’s jumping, but when he’s falling down. Frankly, the very few occasions that that happens doesn’t weigh up against all those times where jumpshotting is abused, like what you’re showing on Bridge.

(Sinee) #72

[quote=“Jostabeere;161624”]Not in this one. But you two complained about Fletcher being accurate with stickies and one shot killing people while jumping or Fragger/Nader spamming accurate grenades as a counter-argument against people saying Vassili was accurate and oneshot killing people while jumping. But Rhino does’t count because it isn’t his primary?
That’s some heavy hypocrisy here, sorry. You want fairness for all mercs as long as it favors the one you’re playing, and you don’t care about other mercs.
I’m for making shotguns and SMGs less accurate while jumping. But now we know stickies/grenades/abilities shouldn’t be nerfed because they aren’t primaries. Nice…[/quote]

Again, I have no problem with Rhino jumping with his minigun. Not sure what point you’re trying to make.

What you’re saying is: We have no right to want Vassili to be able to jump and fire his primary because Rhino can’t jump and fire his minigun. Our point is Vassili should be able to be mobile with his primary just like every other merc is; including Rhino.

You’re cherry picking things from another conversation on another topic that aren’t even the same context. People were saying that Vassili shouldn’t be able to jump and fire his sniper rifle because it’s so damaging. Meanwhile people can jump and fire a shotgun, and nades, which are other things that are just as damaging if not more-so in Dirty Bomb.

We’re talking freedom of mobility here. I don’t care if people can jump and throw nades or fire shotguns. I care if people say Vassili shouldn’t be able to because of his damage output. Because compared to other things in DB, a sniper rifle isn’t even the most damaging thing out there.

That was the context you’re referring to. There’s no hypocrisy here at all, though I do admire your determination on this.

(triteCherry) #73

Do you happen to have a video of those weapons jumpshooting from behind cover? I thought that was the main concern from the developer.

(Sorotia) #74

I just watched the video, it really is a bloody joke that can jumpshot and kill from that range with a hochfir, easy enough. But you need to waste almost your whole ammo supply just to be able to hit enough body shots to do enough damage to kill some mercs.

Which doesn’t take into account DB is a fast paced game and if someone was sitting still even half as long then they’re a moron.

Proof at how horrible it is and people still refute it and try to come up with any excuse to hold Vassili down.

(Merci1ess) #75

Do you happen to have a video of those weapons jumpshooting from behind cover? I thought that was the main concern from the developer.
[/quote]

Just picture a box in front of me. Doesn’t change anything. As for the main concern of the developer… We got nothing. The only thing we got is it was annoying and frustrating to play against.

(triteCherry) #76

[quote=“Merciless;161660”]
Just picture a box in front of me. Doesn’t change anything.[/quote]

If I imagine a short wall in front of the shooter, requiring him to jump to see the target then from what I imagine is two or three of your bullets will be hitting the wall on the way down.

(Dustaz) #77

[quote=“Merciless;161610”]
the sniper’s spread is 10x worst then (…) [/quote]

And You are calling people stupid, gg…

You guys are comparing oranges and peaches. You can’t compare Sniper rifles and smgs/ars because they are different.

[quote=“Jesus;161572”]

There is plenty of things that can counter a vassili like explosives. [/quote]

Explosives require line of sight and closer range. You will be dead before You can get close and throw them against good sniper. They work well vs bad ones, just like knives.

[quote=“Jesus;161572”]
jumpsniping wasnt widely used and abused nor easy to justify a nerf.[/quote]

I agree with that, but it had no direct counter when executed correctly.

My final word to our Bonnie and Clyde - I don’t know why both of You are so agressive over a pc game, but take a loot at that image and read the one at the bottom, because that’s where You are right now.

http://i.imgur.com/Uom120X.png

(Jesus) #78

just as a well cooked fragger nade a well placed nader GL shot or well used Kira’s laser

(Sinee) #79

I think I personally, have been perfectly calm and have explained myself and my points respectfully despite how mind-numbingly difficult that can be at times when met with such… staunch… refusals to see reason or something I view as very basic and plain to understand. I’m not being aggressive, just conversing.

Although, in your case, when someone comes at me and tries to refute my points saying they “sense feminist logic”… as if somehow being a girl invalidates mine or anyone’s positions, I just have better things to do with my time, like updating my feminazi tumblr blog and having raunchy sniperxsniper relations. Y’know?

I can debate this all day, and I can be polite about it, til someone says something genius. You entered yourself into the conversation poorly and got met with the same respect.

As for @Merciless and his choice of words, he just doesn’t give as many fucks as I tend to give.

(Jostabeere) #80

@Merciless Yes they are more accurate. But they have less damage output. That’s healthy balance.
You two are making arguments, but twisting them aftewards.
First Fletcher stickies/grenades are OP and should be nerfed because Vassili was nerfed.
Then you want jumping and shooting back for Vassili because everyone can jumping and shooting, but Rhino doesn’t count because minigun isn’t his primary. Why you complained about /stickiesgrenades and nades in the first place if those things aren’t primaries and in your words not even an argument? Or do stickies magically count as primaries in your argumentation?
First shotguns are OP and kill on one shot from long ranges. Now it’s “only 3 shots”
You made a video to show how accurate other guns are at shooting mid-air on close range. This video should not be taken seriously. Why? Because this video supposed to show what you want people to see. There are things missing:
-no close range scoped jump-sniping.
-only weapons from their perspective category with the lowest spread/recoil.
-no so-called “OP-abilities” like stickies on long range.
-no guns with more recoil than Hochfir on long ranges.
-no full-auto fire to have more dispersion.
-no shotguns on long ranges.
-no TTK on any range between the first hit and the last hit.
-no 1v1 duels with moving targets.
-no firing back as Vassili at jumping targets to determine who is killing whom first.
And as @triteCherry said:
-no cover so less time to shoot for automatic guns.