[quote=“Dustaz;161667”][quote=“Merciless;161610”]
the sniper’s spread is 10x worst then (…) [/quote]
And You are calling people stupid, gg…
You guys are comparing oranges and peaches. You can’t compare Sniper rifles and smgs/ars because they are different.
My final word to our Bonnie and Clyde - I don’t know why both of You are so agressive over a pc game, but take a loot at that image and read the one at the bottom, because that’s where You are right now.
…I don’t know why both of You are so agressive over a pc game, but take a loot at that image (…)
What are you trying to prove exactly? That you’re stupid too? I mean I really admire the fact that you try to sound really smart by pointing out a typo of mine which automatically proves that I’m stupid obviously… But then you fail twice as hard by having 2 typos of your own. Doesn’t look too good Sparky.
As for us being aggressive, I don’t think we’re being aggressive about anything at all. We’re just proving a point by showing you a video. Any of you can show us a video proving us wrong. This discussion is about people being able to bunny hop and shoot effectively except for Vassili and Sparks. Show us that they can do it. Also try explaining to me why, in your opinion, they’ve taken away the ability for Vassili to jump snipe back then and reverted the change not too long after while he was still able to instagib.
@Jostabeere If you find our demonstration lackluster, feel free to make your own video countering our argument and post it. We’re not going to spend all day making videos on things clear enough for you to experiment and see for yourself. @Merciless has made another video that he’s uploading, but that’s the last we’re going to make for now.
You’ll never see it our way, we’ll never see it your way. Agree to disagree.
[quote=“triteCherry;161662”][quote=“Merciless;161660”]
Just picture a box in front of me. Doesn’t change anything.[/quote]
If I imagine a short wall in front of the shooter, requiring him to jump to see the target then from what I imagine is two or three of your bullets will be hitting the wall on the way down.
[/quote]
Here you go. Jumping behind cover and shooting your opponent. Title says it all about the fucks I give at this point.
Just like @Mercy mentioned, I’ve done more than enough to prove my point. All of you who disagree are welcome to make a video of your own proving us wrong.
Don’t even need to, waste of my time.
Something about it being REALLY OBVIOUS how a sniper rifle being used to jump-peek is much worse than a rifle, and I’m not talking about short range.
The fact that you two are still not seeing the problem with this baffles me. Honestly, I don’t know how incredibly narrowsighted you must be to not see that a game mechanic has implications beyond what you’re trying to achieve.
Like I said, I think it’s legitimate that you want to be able to fire accurately when dropping down from the roof of Underground or whatever. Unfortunately, mid-air accuracy would also mean the return of potshot-taking Vassilis.
Let it go, the devs got rid of it for a good reason.
Thats quite low too. Even if one of them went for name calling sometimes, they still try to argue their point with videos and reasonning.
The “The dev are always right in their doings so let it go” is just so wrong on so many levels.
This argument only works when the changes are going your way
By the simple fact that: They tried this before and knew it wasnt right so they removed it. This arguement becomes pointless and totally wrong
[quote=“Jesus;161684”]Your previous post according to your chart
Thats quite low too. Even if one of them went for name calling sometimes, they still try to argue their point with videos and reasonning.
The “The dev are always right in their doings so let it go” is just so wrong on so many levels.
This argument only works when the changes are going your way
By the simple fact that: They tried this before and knew it wasnt right so they removed it. This arguement becomes pointless and totally wrong
[/quote]
What’s the contradiction?
And the videos are nice and all that, but they assume stationary targets and a rather lengthy window to shoot while jumping. As I explained earlier, you may get one or two jumps off, hitting someone on the other side with your M4A1, but they’ll be long gone before you do any real damage.
A sniper rifle deals large chunks of damage, just one jump is enough to give someone a death sentence. -If- it lands, of course, but it shouldn’t be a one-sided lottery.
[quote=“Matuno;161627”][quote=“Mercy;161617”]
No problems with the Hochfir. But will forever, never, ever understand why one mercenary is excluded from using the amazing movement system with their primary weapon.[/quote]
Because a sniper rifle deals more damage in a single jump than any other weapon can.
In ranged engagements, it means Vassili can kill most targets in one or two jumps without the foe being able to retaliate or find cover in time.
Other weapons need so many jumps, the enemy is alerted on the first jump, seen making coffee on the second jump, seen eating a sandwich on the third jump, and perhaps finally fled by the time you make the fourth jump.[/quote]
Sure jumpshooting isn’t that similar of a case with other mercs who have weaker guns, but does it really need to be? Snipers are really different class compared to any other anyway, in any game. Other classes benefit going head on with a sniper who’s not fit for face to face combat. Jumping and shooting over cars and crates, basically trying to minimize the time to shoot isn’t that viable with them. But a merc who has high damage bolt action rifle doesn’t have either anymore. In close quarters they’re at a disadvantage, slowly inching from behind a corner on a street full of bad guys they’re at a disadvantage. Only situation where they’re really at advantage is when they just keep their position, scoped in, standing still, forever standing still. And yeah, that doesn’t really fit well with the Dirty Bomb’s “this is the ultimate run and gun game!” theme
So yeah, TL;DR jumpshooting wouldn’t have same dps for more head on mercs, but why should it, they shouldn’t do it anyway that often
Eristic at it’s finest. Typo is a typo, ignorance of the principles is ignorance of the principles And I’m not calling anyone stupid.
This video is as relevant as Yours
Matuno explained it already, if You can’t understand it I feel for You.
Ima MAGNETO BRAH![/quote]
You’re too busy trying to ridicule me instead of discussing or showing me how the video is irrelevant. Please, by all means, show me and prove me wrong. No, instead you’re just telling me “hey, my boyfriend already explained everything.”. Negative. What he had to say was as relevant as the rainbow pooping video you gladly presented me. Show me facts. Show me how wrong I am.
[quote=“Matuno;161686”][quote=“Jesus;161684”]Your previous post according to your chart
Thats quite low too. Even if one of them went for name calling sometimes, they still try to argue their point with videos and reasonning.
The “The dev are always right in their doings so let it go” is just so wrong on so many levels.
This argument only works when the changes are going your way
By the simple fact that: They tried this before and knew it wasnt right so they removed it. This arguement becomes pointless and totally wrong
[/quote]
What’s the contradiction?
And the videos are nice and all that, but they assume stationary targets and a rather lengthy window to shoot while jumping. As I explained earlier, you may get one or two jumps off, hitting someone on the other side with your M4A1, but they’ll be long gone before you do any real damage.
A sniper rifle deals large chunks of damage, just one jump is enough to give someone a death sentence. -If- it lands, of course, but it shouldn’t be a one-sided lottery.
As for the devs statement, I’ll withdraw that. [/quote]
I’m glad you took that back. What the devs do and say is not gospel and the things they decide are not dogma.
This is just another video that touches briefly on the change.
I’m not going to let this go, because a lot of people, I’d almost say the majority talking about it, don’t see the point of this change, here, Discord, Reddit, yadda yadda. I get people can get tired of beating a dead horse, but I have time.
I’m sure, @Matuno , if the devs nerfed or removed a function from a merc that’s your favorite; something you found crucial to your gameplay and tactic. Something very few people asked for a nerf of, and the general consensus was it wasn’t a problem… And their reason was that it was “annoying and frustrating to play against”, you or at least most people would probably raise their pitchforks about it.
We have the freedom to discuss this and have our point of views here. “Let it go”, well, I don’t have to. Neither do you, or would you, if it was you. I’m not saying you can’t debate us, feel free to do so. But we’re not just going to give up talking about it when a lot of people don’t see the point of it and want it reverted.
@Dustaz since when do explosives require a clear line of sight and close range? I can throw fragger nades from the chapel last defender spawn at a sniper sitting at the white van close to the generator…
[quote=“Dustaz;161667”][quote=“Merciless;161610”]
the sniper’s spread is 10x worst then (…) [/quote]
And You are calling people stupid, gg…
[/quote]
The irony of having these two statements in the same post is off the charts.
Off topic to prove a point, here’s how you can compare oranges and peaches. They’re both fruit, but one’s a fuzzy, soft fruit with a large hard seed in the center, and the other has a skin that needs to be peeled before eating the comparatively tougher meat of the fruit. From this, I can conclude that eating a peach is easier if you do not eat a lot of it, but eating an orange is easier once you get around the initial peeling of the skin. I have now successfully compared oranges to peaches and did nothing wrong by doing so.
This is exactly why you can compare sniper rifles and SMGs. You compare things to show their differences and similarities. It’s fairly pointless to compare two identical things.
[quote=“Dustaz;161667”][quote=“Jesus;161572”]
There is plenty of things that can counter a vassili like explosives. [/quote]
Explosives require line of sight and closer range. You will be dead before You can get close and throw them against good sniper. They work well vs bad ones, just like knives.
[/quote]
Last I checked, none of the explosives in the game require line of sight. Arty can call strikes down without seeing his target, grenade users (Nader, Fragger, Skyhammer, Stoker, Fletcher) throw grenades that, by their very nature of being a grenade, have an arc, and Proxy can lay a mine down and, 5 minutes later, kill somebody with it while on the other side of the map with 8 walls between them.
And last I checked, sniper rifles require line of sight by their very nature of being a gun.
So the line of sight advantage clearly goes in favor of explosives. And now range. For one thing, the longest range you might have to deal with is on chapel. Most, if not all of the positions that a sniper can post themselves on in chapel can be hit by an arty strike without having to even see the sniper. Any of the previous jump shot positions on the map could be hit by an arty strike OR just a regular explosive since most, if not all, of those spots were in the last part of the map, where you have more than enough cover to get into range for an explosive.
Lastly, you know what works well against both bad and good Vasillis? A shred of strategy. If the Vasilli is covering one path, you take a different one. There is no absolute cover position in this game, and there is no one path you have to take. The hardest to flush out jump spots in the game often covered the least amount of an area out of possible positions, meaning it would be used for literally a hail mary shot before the Vasilli moved to a different location. And if anybody was standing in that spot to try to contest the Vasilli jump shotting, that’s not the fault of jumpshotting, that’s a fault of the player being, quite accurately, stupid. Standing still against a Vasilli is a good way to get killed in itself, but standing still in a spot you know to be a vantage point against a Vasilli? That’s just asking for it at that point.
[quote=“Dustaz;161667”]
Sure, other than smokes, explosives, pure numbers, flanking, or another Vasilli, there was no direct counter to jump sniping.
And I’m not calling anyone stupid.