Tighten spread, reduce damage

[Crytiqal]

The new update is not out for all systems yet, so its hard to judge what the spread will be like. Give it another month, and it’d make more sense to discuss finite weapon tweaks. We all still have yet to experience the latest update.

Rofl give it another month.

In another month noone will play this game anymore if some changes are not made

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=Crytiqal;346620]Rofl give it another month.

In another month noone will play this game anymore if some changes are not made[/QUOTE]

you mean no one on PC. Outside of 10 games on PC, the rest are played by very few people in comparison. there are many good games on PC like Brink that are not played. takes time. PC players are slow to adopt new games. look at the list. what’s the point of over-reacting today about what the steam list says? you have to be much more patient than seems the norm on this forum from the PC contingent.

[MorsTua]

[QUOTE=Crytiqal;346620]Rofl give it another month.

In another month noone will play this game anymore if some changes are not made[/QUOTE]

already noone plays it
in a month we are waiting for next messiah on a beach, with our drink in the hand

crytical
stop trolling please… really stop it

everything u suppose is just a supposition
wolfenstein died in 2 months brink is on same rails.

Enemy territory had aroun 1000 servers and almost all of them, always full
please… stop trolling … people like you confuse sd and dont help to pump some life to this game.
Are you happy about the actual result? Wait and you will wait forever. Noone likes this game. Understand it

and once again, stop trolling

[TeoH]

I am just not sure that they will tighten the spread on the guns. If anything, I could see the guns being tweaked to be even more random. It is by design. Not sure what else to say on this subject. Currently, the spread minimizes camping and forces movement. It also promotes teamplay. With a tighter spread players would remain stationery and snipe from ledges. Too many games are already all about this kind of stuff. The weapons deal minimal damage already.

Your reasoning doesn’t make sense, although that seems to be a trend around these parts so i shouldn’t single you out. Nobody is calling for changes to firing cones while crouching scoped with an AR, they’re asking for the SMG (and most every other weapon’s) firing cones to be tighter while moving and firing from the hip, so that the number of hits landed by players in that scenario is based on their own ability to move and accurately track a target, not the ability of an avatar with it’s own preset RNG hit cone.

Greater accuracy while moving and firing encourages the other player to also move, because if your opponent is shooting you with a thin and narrow cone of fire, you’re more likely to be able to throw his aim off by moving around. By contrast, with a giant fire hose spread that covers the broad side of a barn you might as well just stand still, because you aren’t going to dodge out of such a massive cone. Penalties to the accuracy of your fictional avatar when moving only enforce this idea, by encouraging people to simply stand still / crouch or scope to improve their weapon accuracy. When both players decide that their opponents cone of fire is too large in relation to their movement speed to make ‘dodging’ worthwhile, and there exists an incentive to scope and not move, what you end up with is fights between people crouching down behind barrels scoping eachother. At which point whoever sees the other player first wins.

Brink isn’t in quite that bad a shape thankfully, but this illustrates the 2 extremes of the scale. Accurate firing cones when firing from the hip with no or minimal penalty for moving encourages players to dodge and strafe around eachother, attempting to throw off the other’s aim while specifically aiming for headshots when possible (yes while moving, from the hip). This speeds the game up and reduces the positional advantage of a defending team crouched behind a bunch of barrels and zoomed in on a doorway. It also makes individual player skill more relevant to the outcome of any single fight. Nothing about this concept ‘removes’ any element of teamplay, not that any particularly complex teamplay elements exist in brink, instead it simply adds more to the equation. Individual combat skill plus movement, plus positioning, plus team tactics, plus some amount of overal map strategy. There isn’t much scope for those last 2 in Brink as it stands, but fixing that would require a complete redesign of the game, while fixing the first 2 is relatively easy.

For anyone who would make some silly casual argument about individual player skill turning the game into ‘mindless fragging’ or somehow preventing team tactics from functioning, i should point out that competitively, every first person shooter that has exhibited complex and rich teamplay at the highest level has also heavily rewarded individual combat skill. If you had any concept of how much effort goes into organisation and tactics in an old school TDM team, protecting and gearing their spawned players, holding strong areas of the map, arranging timed rushes on powerups or tactically backing off when unlikely to win a fight, you wouldn’t try and use ‘TDM’ as a derogatory term. The reason people enjoy these games, and the reason people want player skill to be rewarded in their games, is because a game that takes the performance out of the hands of the player, can never produce a moment that will make you go ‘Oh wow did you see that, that was awesome’.

That’s what it comes down to, because pulling off a feat of extreme skill is enjoyable, watching other people pull off feats of extreme skill is enjoyable. In brink i can mow down 5 people in a row and just shrug and yawn at it, and nobody will bat an eyelid, because i didn’t take them down due to some incredible feat of combat prowess, it wasn’t some amazing bunnyhopping off the walls mid air triple clutch rail on a 180 flick. I just happened to walk in while they were looking the other way, or reloading, or they just happened to be terrible enough to shoot the cieling or similar. I can make a frags movie comprised entirely of me bouncing around and slaying my way through opposing teams with a knife but the only thing remarkable about the video would be just how terrible the other players were who couldn’t just point in my general direction and press fire.

If you’re playing on a joypad, on a console with autoaim, this discussion doesn’t concern you, it’s literally meaningless to you, the issue of combat skill barely even enters the equation. It’s like putting a football team in 3 foot clown shoes and then discussing the merits of the exact weighting of the competition ball. It doesn’t matter to you and you don’t need to argue with us about it.

(Edit: ) Now i feel dirty for using the phrase ‘from the hip’ in a post about FPS games. The idea that such a phrase is even necessary sickens me.

[St_NickelStew]

[QUOTE=MorsTua;346623]already noone plays it
in a month we are waiting for next messiah on a beach, with our drink in the hand

crytical
stop trolling please… really stop it

everything u suppose is just a supposition
wolfenstein died in 2 months brink is on same rails.

Enemy territory had aroun 1000 servers and almost all of them, always full
please… stop trolling … people like you confuse sd and dont help to pump some life to this game.
Are you happy about the actual result? Wait and you will wait forever. Noone likes this game. Understand it

and once again, stop trolling[/QUOTE]

Huh??
I see you two as two birds wearing the same feathers, and you want him to stop trolling? You are on the same side.

The game has not died on console, though. So please be a little more specific with your generalizations.

[Ino]

[QUOTE=St NickelStew;346630]Huh??
I see you two as two birds wearing the same feathers, and you want him to stop trolling? You are on the same side.

The game has not died on console, though. So please be a little more specific with your generalizations.[/QUOTE]

I think he was talking about wolfnemesis75 at the trolling part but mistakenly said Cyinqal because he quoted him in the same post.

[Seiniyta]

Less damage, less spread is the way to go, but remember that you also need to remember another factor. Ammo. Are you going to increase the number of bullets or not? Soldiers suddenly would become alot more important as they are the ones giving the ammo.

[suho]

text

Really nicely put, exactly what I have been meaning to express as well

[wolfnemesis75]

^ you entire philosophy is about “individual skill”. That’s the point I keep trying to make. I am not saying you are wrong about wanting the game to be about that. There are plenty of games that do what you want. Currently, Brink has been designed so that the spread is random, or low accuracy. Regardless of what system we are playing on: this is how it is. You are fighting the game how it is designed. I bring up Team Deathmatch: because its not in Brink but people would want it in Brink. But its not. TDM is a derogatory term because this game is anti-TDM. Brink does everything to FORCE you to play near your team mates. Not on an island. You can get sprayed as easily as someone can spray you. which is the point. if you are near a medic team mate. they throw you a syringe. you live to fight on while your enemy lays on the ground.

[St_NickelStew]

[QUOTE=TeoH;346627]
If you’re playing on a joypad, on a console with autoaim, this discussion doesn’t concern you, it’s literally meaningless to you, the issue of combat skill barely even enters the equation. It’s like putting a football team in 3 foot clown shoes and then discussing the merits of the exact weighting of the competition ball. It doesn’t matter to you and you don’t need to argue with us about it.

(Edit: ) Now i feel dirty for using the phrase ‘from the hip’ in a post about FPS games. The idea that such a phrase is even necessary sickens me.[/QUOTE]

So you don’t think it requires any skill to understand when to aim down sights (for greater accuracy) and when to hipfire (and maintain maximum mobility)? Hipfire shouldn’t be as accurate as ADS.

That said, what is autoaim??

My impression is that aiming on consoles is more difficult than on PC. Aiming on PC is more accurate because the input devices make it easier. The input device for consoles is less precise and therefore requires more practice and skill to play well.

Some games like Red Dead Redemption have a feature where you pull the left trigger and the crosshairs automatically sight an enemy. COD games might also do this (but I haven’t ever played one so I don’t know).

However, games like Battlefield and Brink do not have this feature. Aiming requires skill. The notion that consoles have “auto-aim” sounds like something PC players tell themselves so they can feel superior.

[suho]

^ you entire philosophy is about “individual skill”. That’s the point I keep trying to make. I am not saying you are wrong about wanting the game to be about that. There are plenty of games that do what you want. Currently, Brink has been designed so that the spread is random, or low accuracy. Regardless of what system we are playing on: this is how it is. You are fighting the game how it is designed. I bring up Team Deathmatch: because its not in Brink but people would want it in Brink. But its not. TDM is a derogatory term because this game is anti-TDM. Brink does everything to FORCE you to play near your team mates. Not on an island. You can get sprayed as easily as someone can spray you. which is the point. if you are near a medic team mate. they throw you a syringe. you live to fight on while your enemy lays on the ground.

I wanted a new objective-based game to play for the coming years, just as I played Quake Wars for years. So what other objective-based game is there for me? I am not going back to ET:QW because I know the maps in and out.

Also If I wanted to play TDM I’d be playing Quake Live but I am not much of a fan of TDM I rather play QL CTF.

Brink is designed such that there are 3 body types each of which can use different weapons with the Assault Rifles being effective long range and the SMGs short range. In no way am I arguing that this should be changed. SMGs can be accurate and be less effective long range there is absolutely no reason why this shouldnt be the case.

[nick1021]

I have been lurking these forums for a long time. Too lazy to make an account. But this idiot here Wolfnemesis just made me make an account.

Wolf. You are the biggest deluded fanboy I have seen. We present to you that brink fails on pc and you are cornered. We have proof it’s a fail. So you make yourself believe that new games take longer to develop on PC. The reason these older games are on top is because they are Valves. And unlike most modern companies cough SD cough they have a head on their shoulders and please the community by giving them sdk and all sorts of stuff. And there aren’t even that many old games on top. TF2 is on top because it’s free. And CS has a strong fanbase. Only those games are on top. Everything else was last year or this year.

Admit it. Brink isn’t doing bad on pc because pc gamers like old games. It’s doing bad because it sucks.

[suho]

Admit it. Brink isn’t doing bad on pc because pc gamers like old games. It’s doing bad because it sucks.

Well they got the objective-based gameplay rigth I think. Compared to QW I even do the side objectives because the new routes it gives you are worth it. The side obj. in QW were on most maps practically worthless. They just need to make a real PC game with real PC controls out of it.

[St_NickelStew]

[QUOTE=nick1021;346648]

Admit it. Brink isn’t doing bad on pc because pc gamers like old games. It’s doing bad because it sucks.[/QUOTE]

So why are you here?? When I think a game sucks the last thing I do is hang around the forums of said game.

So PC players think the game sucks. So what? Go play another game then. If PC players cannot be more constructive and say more than “this game sucks”, then SD (who are clearly on these forums and supporting this game) have no new or helpful information. Be kind, be constructive, be helpful.

If you continue to play the game and are helpful you will receive an improved game. If you quit, there is no need to be negative around here. Go somewhere else and complain about that game.

[nick1021]

Actually I had brink for console. But it got old. Don’t say I’m a CoD fanboi. I didn’t even get black ops. And MW3 sickens me. I quit because of; lack of content, maps got old, lack of polish, networking, no lobby system, bots, bots, bots, bots, bots, bots, bots, bots, bots, bots, bots, bots, HUGE imbalances, bots, S.M.A.R.T. wasn’t smooth at all, low skill ceiling, spawn raping (I’m the one doing the raping, it’s too easy and thus gets boring), operative being useless, not enough utilization for lights. Oh and did I mention BOTS?

[nick1021]

Well they got the objective-based gameplay rigth I think. Compared to QW I even do the side objectives because the new routes it gives you are worth it. The side obj. in QW were on most maps practically worthless. They just need to make a real PC game with real PC controls out of it.

I would of loved this game if…Good connection, no bots (ITS ****ING MP AFTERALL, NO!!!), A LOT more content (for a mp game with no sp 8 maps is nothing), polish and fix the stupid imbalances (operative=useless, heavy=retarded).

[MorsTua]

monday 27th @16:23

130 players on public servers
3 players on private ones

this game is a real succesfull!!!oneone!!!11

really, do we need to add anything?

[Kalbuth]

^ you entire philosophy is about “individual skill”. That’s the point I keep trying to make. I am not saying you are wrong about wanting the game to be about that. There are plenty of games that do what you want. Currently, Brink has been designed so that the spread is random, or low accuracy. Regardless of what system we are playing on: this is how it is. You are fighting the game how it is designed. I bring up Team Deathmatch: because its not in Brink but people would want it in Brink. But its not. TDM is a derogatory term because this game is anti-TDM. Brink does everything to FORCE you to play near your team mates. Not on an island. You can get sprayed as easily as someone can spray you. which is the point. if you are near a medic team mate. they throw you a syringe. you live to fight on while your enemy lays on the ground.

ET:QW game mechanisms are exactly the same as Brink in terms of objectives, classes, and team play needed.
The shooting is completely different, amongst other things making Brink unique.
Soldier are unique in Brink, grenades are unique, SMART is unique, all of this defines Brink more than class-based, objective-based. Class-based, objective-based is Ennemy Territory specific (back to RTCW), this is not a Brink innovation. Brink shares this with its predecessors, nothing more.

Being centered on team is SD’s motto since at least ET:QW, that’s what they emphasized a lot during QW dev and presentations.

So, again, the shooting and precision is not tied to the teamplay design of the game. Past games using the same teamplay design showed us it is perfectly compatible with accurate hip-firing (at least, more accurate than current Brink one)
It’s funny you try to teach the teamplay mechanism of Ennemy Territory brand to people who for example got on QW specifically because they like this system (and thus… they know it ), and you try to depict us as TDM players. which is certainly why you get so many angry answers.
No, we are not TDM players, we expect class-based, objective-based gameplay in Brink. We love that.
In fact, you are insulting, to a certain degree. Hence the heated responses. It’s maybe provocation to get the heated responses and be able to depict us badly?

On a sidenote, @St NickelStew, I can easily agree about the difficulty of aiming with a pad. Let’s not consider console players “worst players” just because their controller appears to be less adequate.
That doesn’t mean I should be satisfied with something looking random on PC

[wolfnemesis75]

[QUOTE=nick1021;346648]I have been lurking these forums for a long time. Too lazy to make an account. But this idiot here Wolfnemesis just made me make an account.

Wolf. You are the biggest deluded fanboy I have seen. We present to you that brink fails on pc and you are cornered. We have proof it’s a fail. So you make yourself believe that new games take longer to develop on PC. The reason these older games are on top is because they are Valves. And unlike most modern companies cough SD cough they have a head on their shoulders and please the community by giving them sdk and all sorts of stuff. And there aren’t even that many old games on top. TF2 is on top because it’s free. And CS has a strong fanbase. Only those games are on top. Everything else was last year or this year.

Admit it. Brink isn’t doing bad on pc because pc gamers like old games. It’s doing bad because it sucks.[/QUOTE]

I am not deluded. I play the game. I don’t pine, and cry, and wish pray and hope it was something else and gnash my teeth because other people aren’t playing it or worry about steam, or lists or what other people wish something to be. I just play. Delusional is hoping something will get fixed the way I’d want it to be fixed and discounting the fact the other people may like it the way it is currently. Popularity is not necessarily the mark of something good. Many popular games, entertainment, etc. doesn’t mean its any good. look at reality shows. games are no different. great TV shows get canceled all the time while crap gets push down our throat. just play what you like. and don’t get all butt hurt if other people somehow enjoy what you hate, bro.

[Kalbuth]

[QUOTE=St NickelStew;346651]So why are you here?? When I think a game sucks the last thing I do is hang around the forums of said game.

So PC players think the game sucks. So what? Go play another game then. If PC players cannot be more constructive and say more than “this game sucks”, then SD (who are clearly on these forums and supporting this game) have no new or helpful information. Be kind, be constructive, be helpful.

If you continue to play the game and are helpful you will receive an improved game. If you quit, there is no need to be negative around here. Go somewhere else and complain about that game.[/QUOTE]

Errrr… This very poll is just that : being constructive. It brings forth what would make the game better, on PC at least. We’ve been through walls of text in this very thread to explain what we see wrong