[QUOTE=MorsTua;346533]FPS were born on pc and that’s where they should stay
You can’t compare a pad with mouse and keyboard.
[/QUOTE]
That argument isn’t that important considering Brink sells much better for consoles. It’s not like SD had to chose which way to go either, they could’ve made two completely different versions but alas they applied console mechanics to the PC.
I am saying that the mechanic of weapon accuracy, does introduce an element of chance, which makes the game fun! The team that wins should not be the one with the best aim, it should be for the ones who performed the best teamwork overall (including the gunfighting obviously, but not so much so that one uber headshotting Quake-style player can get a rail gun like weapon and turn the tide entirely because he mastered that one skill). I like that my headshots miss on occasion because I am using a weapon with slight variables, I ACCEPT that my opponent has to deal with these EXACT same variables. So I feel no ire. It makes the fights more dynamic, and means for “definite” kills, work together. A cross fire of “slightly less accurate fire” than you are used to, is the key. One on one 2 fighters within 10% of each other in aiming skill will have a 50% each to win, seems to be the beef. Thats fun and fair, really. Sure when playing for money the guy with the 5% advantage will feel cheated. But then, well play Quake Live with railguns if you want to be rewarded for that instead of the other “BRINK-style” gameplay! It is more fun having the odd n00b kill you! I rage, then laugh!! :stroggtapir:
Well I cant argue against that it is just a matter of opinion. Personally I don’t have a proble with there being better players on the other team, I see it as a challange.
So there is no relation, weapon accuracy being equal between both teams, it’s part of the needed teamwork.
So :
Honestly, bringing movement back in the fight equation is bringing fun! That’s something more to master, another element to take into account in the already complicated objective-based teamwork equation. And it gets away from usual, COD-like, FPS. Which can only be good, tbh.
i still think that if one waws to ads and burst they would hit 400% more than strafe guessing, if you are trying to strafe with an smg hipfiring you might run though 60 shots before making a single kill.
That’s exactly where accurate strafe shooting is more difficult than crouched ADS on fixed target. Getting these headshots on a moving target while yourself on the move is something you learn and get better with, exactly like you learn maps, when and where to position for crossfire, etc…
At least on PC, some people are scary at doing it, and are giving you an extra challenge. And challenge is good
I am just not sure that they will tighten the spread on the guns. If anything, I could see the guns being tweaked to be even more random. It is by design. Not sure what else to say on this subject. Currently, the spread minimizes camping and forces movement. It also promotes teamplay. With a tighter spread players would remain stationery and snipe from ledges. Too many games are already all about this kind of stuff. The weapons deal minimal damage already.
I disagree. Right now there are allready pretty damn good asaault rifles with which I can pick off players easily when coruched. For example the Rockstedi is pretty damn accuarate and with a weapon buff I can take out most enemies with just two shots. So I don’t see why this will encourage camping. Most people rigth now are allready camping. On defense it is your privilige to do so but as attacker you dont have the time to do it. Also the maps arent that big and I have never had any problems with pesky snipers. The only map where sniping is a valid option is Sec. Tower.
EDIT: If they are not going to make SMG fights skill-based I sure as hell am not gonna stick with Brink for long.
[QUOTE=suho;346591]I disagree. Right now there are allready pretty damn good asaault rifles with which I can pick off players easily when coruched. For example the Rockstedi is pretty damn accuarate and with a weapon buff I can take out most enemies with just two shots. So I don’t see why this will encourage camping. Most people rigth now are allready camping. On defense it is your privilige to do so but as attacker you dont have the time to do it. Also the maps arent that big and I have never had any problems with pesky snipers. The only map where sniping is a valid option is Sec. Tower.
EDIT: If they are not going to make SMG fights skill-based I sure as hell am not gonna stick with Brink for long.[/QUOTE]
That’s fine. Don’t hold your breath for a tighten of the gun spread. Just not the direction or design of the game. There are other games that have a more defined gun pattern like you are looking for. Just like there are plenty with team deathmatch. Besides, didn’t they just patch the PC? Looking at the patch…most of the guns had their spread increased!
Currently, to be accurate, you need to stop. If this is not promoting stating fighting, I don’t know what does
And plz, could we stop with “no teamwork”, “Team Deathmatch” references? This has NOTHING to do with weapon accuracy!
[QUOTE=Kalbuth;346597]Currently, to be accurate, you need to stop. If this is not promoting stating fighting, I don’t know what does
And plz, could we stop with “no teamwork”, “Team Deathmatch” references? This has NOTHING to do with weapon accuracy![/QUOTE]
blah. if you get to continue to blather on about the game, I can blather on against your blathering on. the weapons accuracy balances out the style of play. choose weapons, attachments, etc. that give you more accuracy. don’t use drum mags or speedsling. use the tools provided. don’t wish for the game to be made easier for YOU. key word: you.
1.) It makes the game harder and not easier.
2.) It worked perfectly before in other games.
3.) Balancing can be done with damage fall-off rather than accuracy thus making head-shots not random. I hate being killed by someone using a tampa-smg form miles away with a headshot. It is just pure luck.
4.) Making SMGs more accurate but deal less damage is in no way going to encourage camping if anything it is going to achieve the exact opposites as there will be more people playing light running around strafe-shooting.
5.) Since most PC playery would welcome these changes I suggest making em for PC only that way everyone gets what they want.
Re-read my original thread above : that means SD purposefully chose to alienate most of their PC player base. Case 2) in my post.
Which explains the number of players seen on PC
And to correct something you don’t seem to understand : I’m not asking this to make things easier for me. Actually, that’s the exact opposite, it’s making things more challenging to me, requiring, on top of basic crouch+aim, to actually move while doing so and still being accurate, on a moving target firing back. It’s not something that I personnaly master, far from it. I’m learning, still. It’s more difficult. Not easier.
I’m seeking challenge and satisfaction when I raise my play enough to meet the challenge. Raising my luck enough to do so isn’t satisfying. And crouching in ADS is not something I’m awaiting from an ID / SD game, so I’d like them to confirm that they switched their point of view, and switched to a more generic, ADS-style game. Or not.
no. when the spread of the gun is the way it is, it is more difficult because you have to constantly readjust on the fly rather than just point and click towards the middle of the screen. you may feel like SD chose to alienate you, but that is how you feel. your perception. not fact. the real reason for the small pc playerbase is that older games are more popular, RPGs rule, stuff like Sid Mier Civilization, Free stuff, and slow adoption of new games. There are 100s of brand new games on PC that are pretty much ignored in favor of older games. so, not sure if gun accuracy is the culprit here. other games besides FPS games are more popular on PC. look at the steam list.
FYI, you don’t “readjust” to randomness. You spray, that’s all. It will just statistically reward more not-accurate aim than the same not-accurate aim on a tighter spread system.
It’s random, which means you cannot predict where the next shot will land => you spray.
Awww, and keep your illusions about PC market. The tons of feedback about why Brink is not rewarding on PC (this weapon issue + On-button-wonder for Action and SMART, + others) surely are all fantasies
I don’t know wth you are talking about. How is that in any way more difficult? If the spread is so damn big you DON’T have to constantly readjust, you get your headshots just because the game decides to give em to you by a random number generated in the background. If the weapons are accurate THEN and only THEN dou have to constantly readjust.
[QUOTE=RaKeD;346486]Awesome post, thanks Mustang! There were so many great threads about this topic both in the competitive Brink forum and in this forum yet the changes of the SMG’S read like this:
Sub Machineguns
Kross max spread slightly increased
Tampa max spread slightly decreased
Tampa slightly more jittery when fired
Tampa SMG damage slightly increased
Carb-9 SMG damage slightly reduced
Carb-9 has even spread, instead of clustering towards the centre
Carb-9 recoil slightly increased
Carb-9 slightly less accurate
Instead of working with recoil and the “range value” making the SMG’s shoot where the crosshair/AS is they increased the spread on some guns they wanted to balance and made the guns less accurate.
In my opinion a more elegant way to achieve a simuluar result,especially for PC gamers, without taking the control out of the players hands(Which is a huge factor and why so many threads were made) would be to increase recoil instead of max spread and make SMG less effective on distance with the “range” value.So it doesn’t matter if a SMG has almost no spread and is very accurate for long distance shooting as it doesn’t deal as much damage any longer on distance.
By making SMG’S still very accurate on distance (almost no spread) but reduce their damage via the “Range” value = less damage on distance and making it harder to hold down fire because of an increased recoil we would have an even better result in my opinion.
Now think about this, this could even help to make shotguns more predictable and add a difference between body and head shots to shotguns.If you didn’t knew, shotguns don’t have headshots at the moment.
If you reduce the spread heavily of the shotguns so all bullets are very close to the center of the crosshair/ADS so it is actually skill to do a headshots but reduce damage on distance via the “range value” instead of a crazy bullet spread.This would result in more comprehensible shotgun behavior,would make shotguns effective and skillfull to use at close range because headshots make more damage and they would still be weak on long range because of the “range” value.
This is a PC patch which i give SD mad respect for as this shows they understood that a PC shooter and a console shooter needs different shooting mechanics to be really satisfying for both crowds.
In my opinion there is a more elegant approach, without working with bullet spread at all!
Here is my suggestion:
[ul]
[li]Instead of increasing max spread - Increase recoil
[/li][li]Instead of increasing spread - use the “range value”
[/li][li]If the SMG/weapon is still too powerful ,instead of increasing spread - reduce damage
[/li][/ul]
Another point is the “max spread” value.If a gun has stronger recoil the longer you shoot it, max spread becomes almost unneccesary and can be very low as an value.
This means again more skill is needed to handle the gun under sustained fire and it is actually skill if you can handle the gun with heavier recoil instead of a max spread value which forces you to stop shooting because bullets are magically going all over the place.
If SD makes their weakness to a strength and really starts to focus on shooting mechanics to be more rewarding it will make their games more succesfull, in my opinion!
I hope they read the forums and listen to the competitive players as they tend to know what a game needs to have depth in gameplay as they really know the game to it’s core gameplay mechanics.[/QUOTE]
This is a very thoughtful and constructive post.
For you … :stroggtapir:
Several that follow are not. There is no need to be insulting.
The above suggestion would be equally appreciated by players on all platforms. Some will like it, some will not. In general, though, players on all platforms like seeing their bullets go where they are aiming.
facepalm
So in a soccer team whos very good in shooting is useless cause team play is better than personal skill?
this is a first person shooter not a role playing game
You need to have aim, not luck
it has been this way for ages in games that after years are still played only in brink we are still discussing about there bull****s while the servers are empty and then sounds like a bell to me
personally i dont have fun aiming and having no results cause the enemy got a gun “bigger” than mine
I used to train to get skilled.
Again I have to call upon SD to devise and implement “plan B”, because plan A isn’t working.
The numbers on PC are now in the 100’s, for a game less than 2 months old that’s an epic fail whichever way you cut it.
When ESL finishes that already tiny number is going to fall thru the floor.
PC players on the whole seem to want accuracy, it’s only a few vocal console players arguing against it as far as I can see.
Please give us the option to set different weapon characteristics, either by allowing us to set the specifics via cvars or rolling into the “competition” server config an alternative set of weapon behaviours.