Tighten spread, reduce damage

(MoonOnAStick) #321

At the risk of encouraging you, I’ll try to explain. I am assuming that in each diagram the circle is the flat end of a cone with its tip at the gun barrel. They represent the maximum possible spread for bullet N (at time X after firing).

The probability that the bullet hits the circle is 1 (a sure thing). The probability of hitting the legs, for example, is zero because they lie outside the circle. The probability of hitting the head is… somewhere between 1 and 0. The probability distribution will likely be different for each bullet since the spread appears to increase as the trigger is held down.

In addition you’ve got the problem of how to model the recoil. It obviously affects where the bullets go, but it can be compensated for by the player. As an initial guess you could perhaps assume no player compensation, which might be reasonable if you were modelling the first few shots of tap fire.

Does anyone have any figures for how the bullet trajectories were calculated in ETQW? (since that had a nice balance for pub play IMO) I suppose I could always look at the RTCW source code if I was really interested :smiley:

(V1cK_dB) #322

This is a great thread with some awesome detailed feedback from the community. Why hasn’t SD commented on this thread? If you really believe in your decisions then get on here and defend your shooting mechanics along with the other 20% of people according to this poll.

I do put some credibility to this poll by the way. Some dude 100 pages ago mentioned if you put this same poll on vanity fair or something it would be unbiased. Well of course it would! The problem is I couldn’t care less what some know nothings think of it. I care what people interested in the game think. In American Presidential politics the only polls that matter are those that are taken by actual voters. People with an interest in the topic. Those polls are used to determine Presidents lol…but they aren’t good enough for Brink. Get the hell out of here!

So anyway…SD? Anyone? Defend your decisions or at least explain why you chose this direction and let us know that you won’t be changing it so people like me can just move on and quit hoping that you guys actually think about stuff like this.

(its al bout security) #323

[QUOTE=V1cK_dB;347921]This is a great thread with some awesome detailed feedback from the community. Why hasn’t SD commented on this thread? If you really believe in your decisions then get on here and defend your shooting mechanics along with the other 20% of people according to this poll.

I do put some credibility to this poll by the way. Some dude 100 pages ago mentioned if you put this same poll on vanity fair or something it would be unbiased. Well of course it would! The problem is I couldn’t care less what some know nothings think of it. I care what people interested in the game think. In American Presidential politics the only polls that matter are those that are taken by actual voters. People with an interest in the topic. Those polls are used to determine Presidents lol…but they aren’t good enough for Brink. Get the hell out of here!

So anyway…SD? Anyone? Defend your decisions or at least explain why you chose this direction and let us know that you won’t be changing it so people like me can just move on and quit hoping that you guys actually think about stuff like this.[/QUOTE]

its their game they can do what they want with it.

(Galaxy) #324

Sorry, but they have already voiced their stance on this matter on this post:

[QUOTE=Exedore;343010]It won’t be happening, the damage level was a conscious decision. Yes, it seems a bit strange to have a guy with no shirt soak as much as a clip, but that’s when one needs to remember that it’s a game.

It is indeed to enhance the tactical side of the game. It would make the game a lot easier to pick up for new players as getting kills is easier, but that would disservice other parts. And it’d mean more campers. :mad:[/QUOTE]

(slengteng) #325

I finally got a chance to play the game tonight after the latest patch with the weapon changes and I was surprised to find that the spread changes weren’t a concern for me. Perhaps it’s because I’m an ATI user and the performance is greatly stabilized now for me so it’s easier to aim overall, but the game and the gunplay felt good. I can definitely understand why people dislike the random nature of the spread in principle, but in the game I didn’t feel like it was a big problem for me. Just my take.

Having said that, I vote for tigher spread less damage as I think it makes the most sense.

(MoonOnAStick) #326

You should have put the bit about ‘know nothings’ at the top of the thread - I wouldn’t have voted :wink:
Unfortunately, the dude 100 pages ago was probably right because it’s not really a random sample of Brink players. A couple of possible problems are:

[ul]
[li]This forum is mostly populated by PC (rather than console) gamers.
[/li][li]People who feel strongly about this issue (those who want a change) are more likely to respond (self-selection bias.)
[/li][/ul]
The poll is certainly large enough (given a population of about 1 million Brink buyers) but I’m not sure what you can take from it. Maybe that a majority of SD forum dwellers want tighter spread and less damage?

(V1cK_dB) #327

Thanks a lot for that Captain Obvious! I was hoping for them to explain what their thoughts are on this topic. What does that have to do with the fact that it’s their game? Seriously?

That’s how you go through life? Just accept things regardless of whether they can be improved or not because it’s “out of your control”? Must suck to live that way I wouldn’t know.

(V1cK_dB) #328

They talk about damage not spread. Also I don’t think you understand what I’m interested in. I don’t want people to die faster as that would be anti the supposed SD style gameplay. I want their stance on the accuracy of the guns. The spread and how they feel about tightening it up. Thanks anyway.

(Spendlove) #329

Again I like it the way it is.

And the stats are out and Brink has sold over 1,000,000 copies on all 3 platforms. So a lot of votes still needed to find out what the community and trolls want then?

(V1cK_dB) #330

[QUOTE=Spendlove;347944]Again I like it the way it is.

And the stats are out and Brink has sold over 1,000,000 copies on all 3 platforms. So a lot of votes still needed to find out what the community and trolls want then?[/QUOTE]

There are also other stats like amount of units returned and current active players online. While it’s nice that YOU like it the way it is there are stats that show that the majority of that million don’t. How many people are playing this game on PC again? Where does this game rank on XBOX Live? Why don’t you let us know what those are? Also while you are at it let us know what the majority of comments from gamers are on Brink on this and other major gaming websites/blogs. Are they positive or negative?

WOOOHOOO Brink sold 1 million copies across 3 platforms!! THE GAME MUST BE PERFECT!!! Wow.

(INF3RN0) #331

[QUOTE=Spendlove;347944]Again I like it the way it is.

And the stats are out and Brink has over 1,000 people playing on all 3 platforms. So a lot of votes still needed to find out what the community and trolls want then?[/QUOTE]

Hmmm? Your post caught a bad case of reality…

(nick1021) #332

It’s my time and money, I can do what I want with it.

#333

[QUOTE=MoonOnAStick;347679]This is total nonsense. Geometric probability is simply an area of mathematics. It is not a mathematical theory and it says nothing about this spread business. Looking at the wikipedia entry, I’m not even sure if the problem posed by shirosae’s diagrams even comes under this area of endeavour (EDIT: In fairness, it sounds like it might do.)

Back to those spiffy diagrams:

The assumption being made here (please correct me if I’m wrong) is that the weapon spread is such that, shooting from a given distance at the centre of the circle, the rounds are equally likely to strike the 2D plane of the circle at any point; that is, a random distribution.

I don’t know if this is an accurate assumption or not but, if this is true then, since all 4 circles contain the entire head, a headshot is equally likely for each of those players.[/QUOTE]

Which is incorrect, the accuracy of each round is weighted towards the centre with greater and greater “recoil” causing further and further distance from the centre (hence: min. and max. spread). :wink:

(nick1021) #334

I seriously don’t get why this argument is still going on. Unless you suck so much you need luck to help you out, I don’t see how anyone can defend this change.

(Kendle) #335

Except for the CARB-9 which has min and max spread the same, also the spread rises from min to max really fast and returns from max to min really slow, so most guns are at max spread most of the time (certainly there is no advantage to burst firing to manage spread).

(its al bout security) #336

[QUOTE=V1cK_dB;347942]Thanks a lot for that Captain Obvious! I was hoping for them to explain what their thoughts are on this topic. What does that have to do with the fact that it’s their game? Seriously?

That’s how you go through life? Just accept things regardless of whether they can be improved or not because it’s “out of your control”? Must suck to live that way I wouldn’t know.[/QUOTE]

wow GJ being that average xbox playing kid with pimples on his face that doesnt know what it feels like to be with a woman, judging everyone that he knows is better than him, high five bro you are going places!

[QUOTE=V1cK_dB;347943] Also I don’t think you understand what I’m interested in… (your right no one cares what you are interested in) I don’t want people to die faster as that would be anti the supposed SD style gameplay (how would you know?). I want their stance on the accuracy of the guns (you have THEIR stance on it, its implemented in the game). The spread and how they feel about tightening it up. Thanks anyway.

WOOHOOO Brink sold 1 million copies across 3 platforms!! THE GAME MUST BE PERFECT!!! Wow.(DAMN STRAIT)[/QUOTE]

oh look i graded your paper just like an english teacher.

(its al bout security) #337

i hope you arnt applying this to assault rifles?

im not sure of your context but i am sure this isnt correct for ARs

(Kalbuth) #338

There is an advantage to burst fire, you just have to burst slowwwwly

(nick1021) #339

Ye, like 1 bullets (the first bullet) per 2 seconds.

(Qbix) #340

Unfortunately the other guy doesn’t waste time and sprays me down while I fire bursts, just to experience that I may be more effective, yet I lose : P