Tighten spread, reduce damage

(V1cK_dB) #221

[QUOTE=Ghostdog;346914]I agree that the random spread in ADS is wierd, but I get the impression that this thread is more about non-ADS shooting while strafing (with an smg and a light bodytype).

The core problem seems to be that, like it or not, ADS is in the game. The devs need to differentiate ADS from hipfire and they have done this by giving an even greater random spread to guns fired ‘from the hip’. But this is unsatisfactory for those looking for W:ET-style gameplay where Q3 Arena skills count (ie shooting accurately at a moving target while moving yourself).

I don’t like the random spread myself, but if hipfire were made reliably accurate, how could they then make ADS fire worthwhile? Maybe by making hipfire headshot-accurate at short range only?[/QUOTE]

You are pretty accurate in your assessment. People who played and loved previous SD games (games that made SD popular to begin with) focused on hipfire/movement/low spread gameplay. This is what we want with Brink. ADS is there but the game shouldn’t be changed to make ADS players happy. By doing that they are just trying to cater to people and the result is that they have lost their identity. The game doesn’t ADS as well as other games like COD and it doesn’t hipfire/low spread/movement like previous SD games. The result is an overall subpar game with no differentiation to what is already out there. Just a bland game that doesn’t do anything particularly well. At least if they went with their previous style they would be different and Brink would be the best at something. Right now it’s not the best at anything.

(RaKeD) #222

[QUOTE=Ghostdog;346914]I agree that the random spread in ADS is wierd, but I get the impression that this thread is more about non-ADS shooting while strafing (with an smg and a light bodytype).

The core problem seems to be that, like it or not, ADS is in the game. The devs need to differentiate ADS from hipfire and they have done this by giving an even greater random spread to guns fired ‘from the hip’. But this is unsatisfactory for those looking for W:ET-style gameplay where Q3 Arena skills count (ie shooting accurately at a moving target while moving yourself).

I don’t like the random spread myself, but if hipfire were made reliably accurate, how could they then make ADS fire worthwhile? Maybe by making hipfire headshot-accurate at short range only?[/QUOTE]

In my opinion you already gave a huge part of the solution.Hip firing must be accurate to a point,without much spread, so good aiming get s rewarded in close quarter battels.On the other hand AS have their place in the game and need to give a slight advantage so i would add to that suggestion:

More recoil while shooting from the hip.
Reduced recoil when using AS.

As hip firing is harder to control than shooting with a gun shouldered in real life too it is somewhat logical and not completely out of this world.

If SD really want s to make this perfect i would suggest adding more recoil when hip firing and reduce recoil when using AS so it is a little bit easier to stay on target on longer distances with AS.

Please note that my suggested solution for reducing SMG’s effectivness on distance and makeing shotguns more comprehenisble for the player was to use the range value, not bullet spraed.

So SMG’s and shotguns have a pretty tight spread but do not make as much damage on longer distances.In this scenario a weapon wouldn’t get magically less spread when using AS but the SMG or Shotgun would have less kick(recoil) because the gun is shouldered.(AS)

This would make close quarter battles more intense because you have to fight a recoil but it is understandable for the player that he doesn’t score a headshot when his crosshair is not pointing on the head but over it because recoil wasn’t compensated.This makes aiming more skillfull and you have to track the head/enemy plus you have to compensate for the individual recoil of the weapon you are using.

However we would already make a huge step forward in my opinion if SD would highly reduce bullet spread and max spread and instead use recoil, the range value and damage to balance the weapons.

(V1cK_dB) #223

I would love to hear anyone from SD’s opinion on this. The poll is pretty obvious as to what the community wants and that is without all of the players who aren’t even playing anymore. I’ve heard some pretty solid reasons for minimizing spread and damage to play more like W:ET. Is anyone from SD reading this? Hello?! Am I the only one interested in hearing their thoughts on this?

(Crytiqal) #224

[QUOTE=thesuzukimethod;346858]argh. trying to stay off here.

there’s nothing wrong with the poll as conducted if all you’re interested in is assessing the preference of those who voluntarily choose to indicate their preference. In this case, some PC folks are disappointed in the spread/hit-box issue (perhaps rightly so, i have no idea, i play ps3), and the poll is likely to attract people with a strong opinion (either way) about said performance. so what you have is an aggregation of opinions about gameplay - and as a tally of the number of people who frequent the forums and choose to respond, you have a 3-4:1 ratio of those who favor decreased spread/damage over no change.

but

to say that this reflects the will of 3/4 of Brink players is problematic…(but not because it cant be true, simply because it’s tough to make these sorts of generalizations off a forum poll)- especially one that is clearly embedded within a PC vs. console debate (how many of the votes for increased damaged and spread were console peeps stirring the muck. or how many pc ppl voted the other way because of the console/pc bs, etc…at that point, it’s not really about the game any more.

Off the top of my head, I guess i would randomly sample an appropriate number of Brink Players, either filtering for what I’d call an “active player” (> x hours/day/week/etc - or at least cross tabbing to see the difference) and ask them a short series of questions about the game , including some non-leading questions about perceptions of accuracy/spread

the problem is it’s really hard to get a good random (non-biased) sample population without some leg work (and cost) - which is why so many political pollsters are going to voluntary internet type polls.

sorry for the ramblings, even i’m (mostly) bored by what i just typed.[/QUOTE]

Actually that gained my respect :slight_smile:

Props for you

(Crytiqal) #225

[QUOTE=V1cK_dB;346868]Dude seriously you are starting to piss me off. I can see why these PC guys think all console players are idiots who need the game to be designed to be easy because console players are bad. If I was a PC player and never played on console with actual competitive players I’d probably think the same thing reading the absolute garbage that you type. They are absolutely destroying your “argument” just so you know.

I hope PC players are reading this and understand that there are many more console players who want the same thing. Tighten the spread and make the movement better. Two teams with the exact same strategies and that work together as a team but one is better at shooting than the other…the better team at aiming should win. The game shouldn’t randomize that. I have a feeling some of these console players on this forum are just terrible at the game and they have a voice on this forum. SD listened to them and look at the horrific result. Haven’t we learned our lesson? You should make your game for the most skillful which will raise the skill cap and give bad players something to practice for. Something to strive for. If you make your game to please the bad players from the start you lose your base and the bad players don’t even stick around anyway (which is why the game is almost dead).[/QUOTE]

+1 respect for this console dude aswell

Finnaly someone who actually wants to be good at (G)a(I)ming rather then some kiddy nutjob who want’s such rediculous spread they might actually hit something

that’s right, I said gAIMING

@wolfnemesis
“It’s better to be lucky than good” ? Seriously? is THAT what an FPS is supposed to be??

(Mustang) #226

I interpret V1cK_dB’s response to mean if you can’t be bothered to research and understand others points of view and reference material then any counter arguments you may have will be flawed from the outset, especially when said information has been provided to you on a plate, as opposed to you are a fail at life for not having playing the game(s)
TBH your comment was rather dismissive and flamebait, it was likely to be met with a blunt retort

(nick1021) #227

Good thing you noticed. I knew it was going to happen =P

Did it anyway. Sorry about that.

(FrankieGodskin) #228

Just eliminate spread and recoil entirely. Make killing someone about aiming at a moving target while you are also moving. Weapon selection should rely on accuracy, damage, rate of fire and clip size. Everything else just artificially makes you “worse” than you actually are.

(Mustang) #229

Haha, new idea, if you’re standing still you can’t fire
Made me chuckle at least :stroggbanana:

(nick1021) #230

Maintaining recoil while fire is a skill which should be mastered.

CS is probably the most skilled game out there (If it’s not the MOST it’s pretty darn high) and you try firing for more then .5 seconds.

(INF3RN0) #231

[QUOTE=nick1021;347043]Maintaining recoil while fire is a skill which should be mastered.

CS is probably the most skilled game out there (If it’s not the MOST it’s pretty darn high) and you try firing for more then .5 seconds.[/QUOTE]

Quake, ET, CS. De best shooters.

(IncubusDragon) #232

We’re talking just human players, right? I mean, the bots are deadly enough thank you very much without them aimbotting their first three rounds through the same bullet-hole…

…there’s some really good points in this thread - there are comments I really want to diss - but I can’t because they’re right.

This is my first SD game, so I therefore find it both interesting and disappointing to read the views of long-term SD gamers… it simply does not make business sense to alienate your existing client base simply to normalise the Brink experience to be the same no matter what gaming platform you use… hmm, it would make sense if the master plan was to make multi-platform maps for us all to play each other irrespective of what gaming platform we use.

The latest patch has made the weapons much more consistent in how they handle, so we’re at least at a good starting point now to see what improvements can be made… but it’s a crying shame that our current position is so long after release.

So long as adjustments don’t change Brink into yet another game that’s a glitching sniper-fest, then I wouldn’t have issues with it.

(suho) #233

[QUOTE=nick1021;347043]Maintaining recoil while fire is a skill which should be mastered.

CS is probably the most skilled game out there (If it’s not the MOST it’s pretty darn high) and you try firing for more then .5 seconds.[/QUOTE]

naah CS is pretty much 2-dimensional aming compared to quake live where you have jump pads and fast movement and you really have to aim vertically as well not just horizontally.

(St NickelStew) #234

[QUOTE=IncubusDragon;347059][SIZE=“3”] I mean, the bots are deadly enough thank you very much without them aimbotting their first three rounds through the same bullet-hole…
[/QUOTE]

Now isn’t that the truth! LOL.

(nick1021) #235

CS still has a HUGE skill gap.

(suho) #236

it doesnt have air-rockets those are the most fun to watch imo :wink:

(Mustang) #237

[QUOTE=IncubusDragon;347059]We’re talking just human players, right? I mean, the bots are deadly enough thank you very much without them aimbotting their first three rounds through the same bullet-hole…

…there’s some really good points in this thread - there are comments I really want to diss - but I can’t because they’re right.

This is my first SD game, so I therefore find it both interesting and disappointing to read the views of long-term SD gamers… it simply does not make business sense to alienate your existing client base simply to normalise the Brink experience to be the same no matter what gaming platform you use… hmm, it would make sense if the master plan was to make multi-platform maps for us all to play each other irrespective of what gaming platform we use.

The latest patch has made the weapons much more consistent in how they handle, so we’re at least at a good starting point now to see what improvements can be made… but it’s a crying shame that our current position is so long after release.

So long as adjustments don’t change Brink into yet another game that’s a glitching sniper-fest, then I wouldn’t have issues with it.[/QUOTE]
Present for you

(suho) #238

If anything the opposite would happen because more people would play Light/SMG and do the strafe/shoot in your face action. At least on PC I would bet thats what would happen, cant speak for the console crowd.

In terms of sniping I can only say that it is rarely effective, maps are too small. Mostly people with bad aim pick up a sniper which is annoying when your trying to attack and run past 3 teammates just sniping not really contributing to the team but it really rarely happens that I get sniped by some long distance shots.

(IncubusDragon) #239

[QUOTE=Mustang;347110]Present for you
[/QUOTE]
Cheers, I know you’re ripping the pish but you’re actually spot on… I’m getting old and don’t like straining my eyes, LOL

(Ino) #240

My point was to emphasize that the BC2 model would be much better than the current model, I’d still prefer the ET model though :wink: