Tighten spread, reduce damage

#241

Correct. on gaming forums especially.

If this poll was in “Cosmopoliton” magazine, that would be less biased.

#242

[QUOTE=thesuzukimethod;346823]Current state of research on public polling (typically in political realms, but also in consumer research) indicate/demonstrate that anonymous/optional self-directed surveys are -at best- an indication of preference, and -at worst (and more likely)- statistical noise.

The problem is that people who are interested in the outcome (either positive or negative) tend to seek out the poll (hence the possible indication of preference) but because it’s not a random sample of all possible people who might have an opinion (or lack thereof), it’s not statistically valid…it’s simply an aggregation of opinions. are 3/4 of Brink owners interested in tightening spread and decreasing damage? who knows? (could be). Do 3/4 of SD forum visitors who indicated a preference in a poll want decreased damage and spread. Demonstrably.

See criticisms of Zogby Intl online polling for the basics.[/QUOTE]

Excellent post mate, I thought it was evident, apparently not to this community. :confused:

(suho) #243

[QUOTE=NIDCLXVI;347234]Correct. on gaming forums especially.

If this poll was in “Cosmopoliton” magazine, that would be less biased.[/QUOTE]

yeah for sure. Why don’t you do another poll right here and ask how many players read the magazine? I bet it’s gonna be pretty damn low.

#244

Exactly my point. Thank you. :slight_smile:
While as here where the most vocal members seem to be compo players… ???

That is called BIAS. :wink:

We know SD are looking at match data and stats and have a lot more information than this biased poll will gather, the tweaks will come in time, friends. :penguin:

(MorsTua) #245

[QUOTE=thesuzukimethod;346823]Current state of research on public polling (typically in political realms, but also in consumer research) indicate/demonstrate that anonymous/optional self-directed surveys are -at best- an indication of preference, and -at worst (and more likely)- statistical noise.

The problem is that people who are interested in the outcome (either positive or negative) tend to seek out the poll (hence the possible indication of preference) but because it’s not a random sample of all possible people who might have an opinion (or lack thereof), it’s not statistically valid…it’s simply an aggregation of opinions. are 3/4 of Brink owners interested in tightening spread and decreasing damage? who knows? (could be). Do 3/4 of SD forum visitors who indicated a preference in a poll want decreased damage and spread. Demonstrably.

See criticisms of Zogby Intl online polling for the basics.[/QUOTE]

what does the poll say while servers are empty?
proof something or still anything?

while u were quibbleing the result of the poll, the game got noone playing it. Maybe we should make a poll

  1. you bought this game to have fun
  2. You bought it cause you would trash 30 euros
  3. you bought it cause your table shakes and u needed something to put under the leg
  4. You bought it as ornament. i loved the cover.

go ahead. You won’t understand it even if evidences are so clean.

(Spendlove) #246

The only problem with polls on a forum is that only a tiny percentage of people who bought the game are ever going to vote for any option. So statistically you could say that as the vote is already weighted towards changing the spread that 99% of Brink owners don’t care or are happy with the way it is already. Because only the most vocal, unhappy or hardcore fanboy is ever going to bother in the first place.

In other words. Splash or Bethseda don’t give a rats arse about what us, the extremely opininionated think and to be honest, quite rightly too.

Would you care after reading some of the vitriol on these forums?

(MorsTua) #247

[QUOTE=Spendlove;347244]The only problem with polls on a forum is that only a tiny percentage of people who bought the game are ever going to vote for any option. So statistically you could say that as the vote is already weighted towards changing the spread that 99% of Brink owners don’t care or are happy with the way it is already. Because only the most vocal, unhappy or hardcore fanboy is ever going to bother in the first place.

In other words. Splash or Bethseda don’t give a rats arse about what us, the extremely opininionated think and to be honest, quite rightly too.

Would you care after reading some of the vitriol on these forums?[/QUOTE]

would be right if servers were full
but they are empty.

this means that you are right. most of customers dont even bother to come here and scream at sd, but this doesnt also mean that sd can dream happily cause “they made a good work”. In their shoes i would understand why noone plays their game and statistically, this poll holds the balance power.

there is no more things to discuss
there are evidences, everything else is an opinion

(79of96) #248

I’m actually fine with it.

(suho) #249

If you are on console you don’t have the latest patch yet. If you play on PC I ask you: Ever played other skill-based fpss?

(79of96) #250

PC all the way here…and of course I have played skill-based FPS.
Brink is different, but I like it. Won’t I cry if they would change it? Nope. I’m just…kind of indifferent towards it.

(Apoc) #251

ETQW, ET, QL, etc etc etc all skill based, all have reasonable spread. Even tf2 has tight spread on weapons such as pistol, shotgun, machine gun, syringe gun, with its larger spread weapons still having smaller spread than most of brinks weapons.

This is an fps. You dont lose anything by tightening the spread, you only make it harder to master, no one likes playing a game that doesnt reward the time and effort you have put in to get better, and that why people arent sticking with brink.

In etqw, you could notice how after playing more, your tracking improved, you started to see more headshots and more people died. This visual feedback is very rewarding. In brink you can get better and better, but once you are decentish at tracking someones chest which isnt hard, you have all the skills you need. And thats why people are leaving.

If you really want to get into it. Brink has many levels, its deep, its the reason i still play comp brink. The teamplay and tactics that can be used in this game is very effective and fun. However, this cant be done in public servers with strangers…for obvious reasons, and the fact that voip is still never used and broken doesnt help that fact. This means all you are left with in pub servers is individual gameplay and the only co ordination available is that you all run in the same direction and swarm objectives. This level of gameplay is shallow.

And so people look to the weapons and shooting to enhance their playing experience but as i have said, and as SD have said, no one likes being killed when they cant do anything about it. Im afraid this is evident in brink even though they purposely tried to remove it.

Having large random spread means that you can track a target perfectly and still die to someone who is vaguely aiming in your direction and happens to get luckier than you on the spread and hits. This is exactly what SD wanted to avoid. If you enter a 1 on 1 on even terms, with no other factors, the better aimer/mover should win. I dont know how anyone can ever contest that. Its an fps. Please remember this.

Brink has many other factors like flanking and co ordinated pushes and corssfire, but they are all ways to set up situations where you then shoot the enemy. You are setting yourself up to use an inneffective mechanic, this game shouldnt be about using tactics to make the guns barely usable, this game should be about using tactics to make the guns even more effective!

(tokamak) #252

The discussion is too simplistic. Next to a difference about the lower and upper limits of the spreads one can also make a case for a higher fidelity between these limits on top of it. That’s where Brink scores low, the spread may be wide, but the fact that you can do so little about it (by standing still or crouching, which has only a small effect) makes it frustrating. People who take this into account aren’t being rewarded at all and might as well not bother with it.

(shirosae) #253

ARE YOU SITTING COMFORTABLY?

I didn’t play much ET (PC sucked at the time; I was a DoD fan). My first big dip into ET gameplay was ETQW. My aim sucked a bit, but my awareness was pretty good, so I’d try to offset my sucky aim by watching the fight unfold and trying to get into positions that would screw with the enemy’s chain as much as possible.

Eventually I moved over to ETQW:pro. You know what I noticed? The improved spread improved the effectiveness of the tactics I was using. The combination of my aim-training and the improved spread had made the interference I was running much, much more dangerous.

For example, I’d often find a spot with some layered cover approaching the objective, and try to pull the defence’s attention away to the side a few seconds before the main push.

In ETQW:pro this was more effective, not less, because I could drop someone with my first 5 bullets. The defence then had to decide whether they were going to let me pick members off, or turn their attention to force me back.

If they spotted what I was doing and ignored me, their medic train got tied up because I was dropping them first. If they turned their attention to me, I could pull back, let them walk into mines/cover and do the face-to-face dance with a reasonable chance of winning, whilst my team pushed their flank.

With lottery spread, it doesn’t matter; most of the bullets miss, you lose your surprise, and it doesn’t really matter who was in the better position anyway. I’ve tried to play games like this, and they feel incredibly hollow.

The whole Tactics v Aiming thing is nonsense. A tight spread makes good tactics more important, not less. I’m not even a particularly good shot or tactician and I know this.

(tokamak) #254

ETQWpro is just utter horsecrap. Making the spread the same regardless of what you were doing means that the only valid aproach in the game is running around. It strips the game of a very important tactical layer. It didn’t just increase potential power, it made the power solely reliant on hand eye coordination and made any tactical approach obsolete.

(Kalbuth) #255

/disagree
Proper cover will save your ass in ETQWPro

(Apples) #256

Arf, did you ever watched / played a proper ETQWpro scrim?

(Apoc) #257

Wrong, it meant that you had to be extra careful about how you moved, and had to have other players covering players moving through dangerous routes, if anything it stopped players from just running around the middle of no where, you had to know where the enemy was at all times and know where you had to go. It was as it sounds a Pro mod, very good mod, added alot to the game. Didnt strip any tactical layers, if anything added alot

(tokamak) #258

On the contrary, you had to care less about it because you could just fire back on the fly, no matter what you were doing. If the spread was more reliant on your movement then you could find yourself in tight spots if you’re not careful. Should you be caught in the open then you can’t both run for cover and fire at the threat, but in ETQWpro, you can.

What the **** does scrim have to do with this? The level of organisation within the teams has no bearing on how important the influence on your spread is.

ETQWpro took all the intelligent nuances in QW and made it something in which any simpleton could stand a chance as long as they were able to point their mouse on someone’s head.

(Seiniyta) #259

ETQW Promod I didn’t enjoy as much as pub ETQW, the Promod is fine for competitive but wasn’t great if you just wanted to play a game on a server. Then it was horrible. (imo)

(DarkangelUK) #260

it would seem tokamak prefers the slower tactical games where there’s an additional volley happening between movement vs accuracy. Do you move more to become more difficult target to hit but incur more spread on your shooting, or slow down for accuracy but become an easier target… which technically is the whole point of movement spread and ironsight. Reducing the spread to that equal of being crouched or ironsight removes that volley and the mind-game all together, and in effect does remove a tactical equation… as well as making croucing/ironsight pointless except to gain the FOV advantage over distance…