There needs to be a way to change things mid-match.

(DonkeyDong) #141

[QUOTE=Ragoo;273792]
One more thing: You as an individual can adapt rather easily (as far as adapting goes without changing bodytype/abilities) but if we have a really weird and unpractical composition of bodytypes/abilties (like all heavies who have high level Operative abilities that fill a very specific niche) I don’t see any chance to effectively coordinate some random pub team to make the best of the situation.[/QUOTE]

Bump this… how many times you join a game, realize the classes are screwed and adapt AS A BETTER PLAYER and turn the tide because someone was needed to do something… rather then all heavies… this is a pub nightmare.

And to that guy who thinks it takes skill to finish a map as the same class… you’re only proving that you can perform within constraints,… and not the category of skill. I think you need to reevaulate your definition of skill… lols.

Defiantly a big negative not to be able to adapt and switch classes. As far as XP goes for a class, I have never seen a game where you up one class and the others go up also. Only as far as generic weapons and skills may go… this is a good thing so everyone gets a chance to experiance and better themselves in different classes.

(Herandar) #142

XP in Brink is not linked to the classes, it is linked to the character.

(DouglasDanger) #143

All this rage and whatnot is based on speculation. So silly.

(DonkeyDong) #144

That won’t work in pubs, you’ll get 1 team that may be organized but generally pubs aren’t and this will fail.

Lousy retort. It will be that that blown up if you can’t see what the enemy is doing. You give it 1 guess,… oh I’ll go with this… then realize that wow that is useless because of the other pubbers on the team… only logical action will be to leave the server and rejoin on another class or pick another one with pubbers that might have better organization… and that is not blown up.

I can’t think of 1 game (multiplayer fps,… ) that uses classes, that I joined after picking a class, and realized that I really need to play something else because otherwise the team gets stomped… etqw, wolfenstein, mw2, codbo, bc2,… even crysis though that one is somewhat better… because the class separations impact players to players interacting vs objectives.

Again, if someone wants to play with these constraints,… all the power to ya, the BEST solution is to let this be server side configured and not have either setting remove it from ranked/pub servers. A noob who wants to try different classes and learn the variances within 1 match should be rewarded as a noob and should have the opportunity to try different things.

(tokamak) #145

[QUOTE=DonkeyDong;273919]That won’t work in pubs, you’ll get 1 team that may be organized but generally pubs aren’t and this will fail.
[/QUOTE]

If you’re afraid of that you pick up medium character with a balanced build so you can fill up the holes that fall in an uncoordinated team. It really isn’t different from playing with an uncoordinated team in any other game.

(Herandar) #146

Go to a command post and change your class then.

(Ajax's Spear) #147

Day 1 stuff, really. I mean changing classes on the fly is one of the things SD touts about the game nonstop.

(DonkeyDong) #148

[QUOTE=Ragoo;273867]No, that’s total bull**** and you know it.

I’d rather join a game, look what’s up there and what role I should optimally play and according to that information choose class+abilities+bodytype+weapons. And if that what my team or I am doing is not working for whatever reason I don’t only want to be able to change my playstyle but also if necessary my class and/or abilities and/or bodytype and/or weapons in the game so I can try and adapt to the situation.

And that’s basically what you did in W:ET, ET:QW or TF2 and I don’t see a reason to take some of those choices away from us while in the game, just so we make “meaningful choices” before the game starts that essentially are totally random.[/QUOTE]

Bump… you need to add in wolfenstein from failvision, bad company 2, all the call of duty series, …

for real. just make this an option and let ‘those guys’ play with their constraints while others adapt quickly and skillfully, rather then limit themselves.

(DonkeyDong) #149

oh snap… are these available in between objectives? so if we win the 1st for example, then i can change class for the next one? light body type, or class etc? what the hell is the hype about changing classes mid match then?

(Ajax's Spear) #150

Yeah, you can do it anytime at a command post. Class… that is. Body type you have to pick before the match, and you’re stuck with it.

(Mad Hatter) #151

Only logical action would be to change classes at a command post and deal with being a little less powerful in exchange for being a lot more useful.

EDIT: Ninja’d, ninja’d so much.

(Ragoo) #152

[QUOTE=tokamak;273897]
@Ragoo, there’s no challenge in picking the set-up that suits the situation the best, it’s a completely trivial skill which you can look up on the internet if you want to.[/QUOTE]

We already had this in the old topic but okay. I’ll try to answer differently this time.
How can there be no challenge in picking the right setup for the given situation?
Only if your choice is meaningless is that correct, so either every choice is right or every choice is wrong.
So there is A LOT you can change about your setup with abilities (and different combinations of them), bodytype, weapons (+weapon attachments) and classes. And not every choice is right nor is every choice wrong but some setups suit the situation a lot more than others.

So to judge which setup you need you have to have a lot of knowledge and experience and strategical thinking. So yeah, it IS a skill to pick the right setup which suits the situation the best. And itis NOT a skill to choose a setup and then pick a server and see if you get lucky.

[QUOTE=tokamak;273897]
Everyone will meet situations where the odds are against them, and that’s where the true skill of a player is shown, that’s where creativity and improvisation start to shine.[/QUOTE]

There will be plenty of this in the game, whether you can change bodytype/abilties midgame or not. In the end this is still a multiplayer game and it has soo many variables that it’s impossible that every situation is balanced. There will still be many many situations where you are at a disadvantage and have to be creative to turn the tables.
It’s not that because you can change bodytype/abilities suddenly you are always favored in every situation. Your enemy’s can do the same thing and it be a back and forth like we are used to from ET:QW, W:ET or TF2.

And it’s way less luck dependent so I will be less frustrated since I’m a luck-hater, hooray!

(H0RSE) #153

That won’t work in pubs, you’ll get 1 team that may be organized but generally pubs aren’t and this will fail.

lol, you seem to have forgotten that people on console can play also - You fire up the console, meet up with friends, join a party, then play together - not rocket science.

Also, Brink uses Steam, so joining up with friends on PC is just as easy.

And that’s basically what you did in W:ET, ET:QW or TF2 and I don’t see a reason to take some of those choices away from us while in the game, just so we make “meaningful choices” before the game starts that essentially are totally random.

I can think of a reason…because Brink isn’t any of those games.

Brink is a new IP, and follows its own rules. It is not an expansion or a sequel, or even a spin off of any other game. You want a reason why the game “takes some of those choices away from you?” Because that’s how it works in Brink - it’s really that simple.

(Ragoo) #154

@DonkeyDong You misunderstood. At any point in the game you can change your class+weapon. What you can not change is your bodytype and (class-specific) abilites.

Also you can’t unlock all abilities on one character. So for one of your characters you might have unlocked all Medic and Engineer abilities and thus he is very good at these classes, while being mediocre at Operative or Soldier.

(H0RSE) #155

Also you can’t unlock all abilities on one character. So for one of your characters you might have unlocked all Medic and Engineer abilities and thus he is very good at these classes, while being mediocre at Operative or Soldier.

Just because you don’t have all or any abilities for a class, doesn’t necessarily make you “mediocre” at that class - It just gives you less options to work with.

(tokamak) #156

[QUOTE=Ragoo;273930]So to judge which setup you need you have to have a lot of knowledge and experience and strategical thinking.
[/QUOTE]
But absolutely no creativity or improvising. That only happens when the odds are stacked against you.

Also, there’s only a very few ‘ideal’ builds, if you allow people to change to that, then amount of possible combinations you will find on the battlefield will decrease dramatically and with that variability down, the replay value will lower.

In the end this is still a multiplayer game and it has soo many variables that it’s impossible that every situation is balanced.

It also has so many variables that everyone will get the same share of advantageous and disadvantageous situations, it’s up to the player to exploit the advantages and mitigate the disadvantages, and that takes true skill.

(Ajax's Spear) #157

This is something else I’m not entirely clear on…do basic class functions have to be chosen as abilities? In other words, does a health syringe come standard on the Medic class, without having to build it into your skillset pre-match? Or say the soldiers ability to plant HE charges, stuff like that?

Because that would free up a lot of room for more specialized abilities if they just came stock with the character when you switched classes.

(Maawdawg) #158

-Engineers can always buff damage (self and team), build, and repair (not sure on turrets and mines).
-Medics can always heal (self and team), buff health, and revive teammates.
-Soldiers can always give out ammo (self and team) and plant charges.
-Operatives can always hack comms, disguise, and do their specific quest tasks (crack safes, etc).

All of those things are mapped to the action button and require no skill points to use. You can modify those abilities with skill points if you choose but even if you don’t you always have the base versions of them available.

It isn’t like you just have a gun and can’t do anything else if you haven’t spec’d into the class.

(Ragoo) #159

I’m just saying that a character with high level abilities for Medic is better suited to be Medic than a character who doesn’t have any good abilities for Medic.

And no, this doesn’t have anything to do with the player’s skill!

[QUOTE=tokamak;273937]But absolutely no creativity or improvising. That only happens when the odds are stacked against you.

Also, there’s only a very few ‘ideal’ builds, if you allow people to change to that, then amount of possible combinations you will find on the battlefield will decrease dramatically and with that variability down, the replay value will lower.[/QUOTE]

Why can’t you be creative when choosing a setup for a specific situation? There will be soo many different situations that you will have to be creative to figure out what is best to do.

And finding out what the “ideal” builds are (few or many, that depends on how good the game is balanced) is what I want to happen, so we can actually collect a lot of knowledge about what does and what doesn’t make sense in this game.

I know ****ing around is a lot of fun, especially in the first weeks, but at some point I want the players that have more knowledge about the game to have an advantages about equally skilled opponents who don’t have this knowledge.

And in my opinion (as well as yours apparently) this will happen faster and more efficiently if we can change bodytype/abilities midgame.

(H0RSE) #160

This is something else I’m not entirely clear on…do basic class functions have to be chosen as abilities? In other words, does a health syringe come standard on the Medic class, without having to build it into your skillset pre-match? Or say the soldiers ability to plant HE charges, stuff like that?

Core class abilities are available by default.

Soldiers can always plant charges
Engineers can buff damage and repair/build
Medics can heal and revive
Operatives can hack