There needs to be a way to change things mid-match.

(Mustkunstn1k) #1

Okay… let me see if I understand everything correnctly. Basically the only things that are permanent are skin colour, face type, scars, voice and tattoos? I can change everything else for my character… including body type? Without penalties? What are the exact penalties for changing abilities?

This would make the “only 10 characters” less of an issue because I would just create 4 characters - one for each class. And then I would choose their abilities accordingly.

But the question becomes - what can I change in the middle of the match? Sure I can put my character ready… but there is always a need for change. Maybe we need some other class more atm etc?

So what can I exactly change… just my weapon loadout (not even sure how that works, are there like specific loadouts I create?) and class? But not my character or bodytype?

That doesn’t make any sense at all. If I want to play Soldier then I want my “Soldier character”. Because I created that character and the abilities with a single purpose - to play soldier. Otherwise - every character would need to be an “overall” character with mainly the “overall” abilities and maybe the most important ones for each class. Why?

Same goes for bodytype. I need to be able to change it… and even for my character. I mean I can’t have 12 characters for all classes with every bodytype. Maybe I switch sides because the game is unbalanced… therefore I often need to change bodytype. If I am an offensive engineer I’m probably light or med. But as a defensive I will probably be heavy.

Maybe this isn’t as big of an issue on the consoles, but PC’s have matchmaking. I need to be able to change teams and also my characters… all depending on the situation at hand.

Sry for the bad English.

(Schwarzeis) #2

What exactly is not an issue on the consoles?

And yeah, I don’t really understand why we can choose specific class perks if we can’t change character, as you said, that means we have to have ‘‘handyman’’ characters, with points for every class

(Mustkunstn1k) #3

I would imagine that things are a little bit different on the consoles. I am not a console-player, so I am not sure how it works for them, but I’m certain it’s somewhat different. The whole fact that PC players are going to have dedicated servers etc.

But maybe it is the same as I’ve heard that there will be no lobby and PC has never had any lobbies either. Because usually I’ve heard that they have lobbies where they sit and while waiting for the next match they can change their characters etc.

(tokamak) #4

Yeah, I also really hate it when I can’t switch from Terran to Zerg in the middle of a match, then I would truly be able to pwn these noobs.

(Herandar) #5

Flexibility is more important than strength. You should adapt to the game, since it will not adapt to you.

(Bridger) #6

If we cannot change Bodytype/class/abilities mid match we have a huge problem.

(Schwarzeis) #7

Peer 2 Peer with a host running the ‘‘server’’ is what consoles get if they don’t get dedicated servers

(Mustkunstn1k) #8

[QUOTE=tokamak;273383]Yeah, I also really hate it when I can’t switch from Terran to Zerg in the middle of a match, then I would truly be able to pwn these noobs.

Seriously, your ignorance on the subject is profound. I’m sure someone will come by and explain it to you, in the mean time I suggest you use the search button.[/QUOTE]

  1. That examples make no sense and has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
  2. I will be here waiting.

Edit:

Yeah, I know that they have systems like that. But what I mean is that often console players don’t even have the choice to switch teams. The only way to play with friends is to make a party.
But on PC you might switch sides often, which means the chance that you need to change your character and bodytype is also bigger.

(DonkeyDong) #9

Ya, I have not seen 1 game where you can not change anything. This would (in my opinion and obviously others in this thread), limit the ability for a player and/or team to adapt to strats and will put serious constraints. We should be able to change anything (after we die and respawn) into a new class/character definition.

(Maawdawg) #10

As it stands now this is what can and can’t be changed mid-match

Bodytype and/or skills and abilities = no
Class and/or weapons = yes

I am completely fine with it this way, it makes your pre-match decisions actually mean something rather than just letting you be the “best” at every situation the game may throw at you. This way players may actually have to deal with some adversity due to poor choices for a change rather than getting “instant fixes” to be exactly the perfect build for every situation upon death.

EDIT: to further clarify the “weapons = yes”, you can change loadouts you want to carry but you cannot actually modify the weapons themselves while in a match.

(tokamak) #11

Back in the days where the discussions had depth and the devs actually bothered:

[QUOTE=Rahdo;202843]i tend to look at the choice of body type kind of like playing a CCG like Magic the Gathering. When you’re about to play a match, you make the best choice about what deck you want to use, because once the match starts, you’re stuck with that deck. So it’s a very important high level decision, and it’s meaningful because mid-way through the match, you can’t just throw it away and change, you’ve got to live with your decision. During the match, the cards you’ve got in your hand and in play determine the round to round choices you have to make. Those are the same as Brink’s changing class. You’re making decisions all the time in the action about what to do (what card to play, what class to be, what route to take, what monster to attack with, etc), but you do it within the context of the deck you chose before the match started, or in our case, the body type.

I’m a big fan of choices being meaningful, instead of throw away. Hence the thing about picking a body type and seeing the match through with it (and toka actually lists several other good reasons above too).

The big thing is, all 3 body types have very strong advantages and disadvantages, and each one is useful in every situation, in a different way. Sure, a big guy takes longer to get to the front line, but once he’s there, he’s tougher than anyone else, brings the pain, and also can do more revives/ammo hand outs/weapon buffs/etc. etc. than anyone else. Otoh, a little guy can get there super fast, but he’s only going to have a few abilites he can do before he’s out of power. But he’s going to be able to reach areas that others can’t, and if he’s smart, he’s going to be a really tough guy to hit, since he moves so fast. Medium guys is the happy inbetweener.

You’ll never be useless to your team because you’re big and slow, or weak but fast. You just have to change your moment to moment tactics in a match based on that big choice you made up front (and what choices your teammates and the enemy made).

Trust me, it works really well in our internal playtests at the moment :)[/QUOTE]

Call me a snob but I can’t say this place improved after the Bethesda immigration.

(Mustkunstn1k) #12

Except you don’t choose a deck. You choose 1 card.

That’s it. You don’t choose anything else - just one characters. You can modify it with classes… but you can’t choose that in the middle of the match.

Brink isn’t some kind of an RPG, in the end it’s a class-based shooter.

Let’s take Team Fortress 2 for example. Now imagine that you are only allowed to select 3 character in the beginning of the match and then you can only switch between these classes…

And like I said, when you need to switch sides the choice of character becomes even more important, and you can’t change that.

Also, what is a Bethesda immigration. I’ve played ET ever since it launched (until about 2007, still have it installed and play it sometimes).

(tokamak) #13

You chose a deck.

You pre-set the body type, a few weapon load outs and the skills for each class and then you take the entire package to the battlefield.

Let’s take Team Fortress 2 for example. Now imagine that you are only allowed to select 3 character in the beginning of the match and then you can only switch between these classes…

Frankly I think that would be awesome. It would severely limit the hyper-active yet boring rock-paper-scissors metagame and force players to stick with their choices even if it doesn’t fit the situation which would in turn reward improvisation and creativity.

Dude, you’re a genius.

(Schwarzeis) #14

‘‘Bethesda immigration’’ is the term he uses for people like me coming from the Bethesda BRINK forum

(Mustkunstn1k) #15

Wah?

It’s still a one card - you must put that card together from different things.
But you can’t actually change your card.

If you would have a deck then you would have many cards - many characters… And you could switch them.

(tokamak) #16

Card games revolve around the notion that a player has next to little influence in the order in which the cards churn out of the deck. Brink actually does offer a higher flexibility because you can switch classes and load-outs on the fly.

(JeP) #17

Call Of Duty. You have different builds, but you can only customize them out of a game.

That’s what I anticipate, and I really think that’s what intended SD. People have to put weight on their choices and play with their consequences.

Plus, before running around wild screaming, we don’t really now how many skills we will be able to choose for each characters, and if taking medic perks will mean less slots for operative ones.
Take a breath, wait for infos, please.

(tokamak) #18

We actually do know all that.

It’s perfectly possible to have a balanced build where players have sufficient skills for each class, however there’s room for specialisation where players forego having class abilities for each class but one class with more powerful perks.

(Mustkunstn1k) #19

So basically… we can throw the whole character system out of the window. It should be adapting to the situation… it is a team-oriented shooter.

Now you only need one character - he needs to be medium and most abilities need to be universal.

I mean if I have a character with every ability being an Engineer ability I am going to play an Engineer. But if it turns out our team has 5 other engineer characters? What then? The system gets turned on it’s head.

Same goes for bodytypes etc.

This is not Call of Duty where you can’t customize your perks in the middle of the match… This is not the same. In Call of Duty you have many different classes ready that you yourself can choose. You can have a fast runner, or a slow character etc. Call of Duty is an example of getting a “deck” of classes together. And then you have like a few cards that you can change.

YOU ONLY HAVE 1 CARD IN BRINK.

(tokamak) #20

Dude seriously, your entire concern rests on pure ignorance of how this game works. You can only specialise in a particular class to a limit extend, you will always have enough room to specialise in multiple classes.