There needs to be a way to change things mid-match.

(DonkeyDong) #201

[QUOTE=Linsolv;274011]
@DonkeyDong: True, Magnum Ammo does change things. But the 416 (right now, used to be the AN-94 I’m told) is pretty powerful compared to most of the other ARs. I find much more than 1/8 of my deaths against Assault kits are to M416s. More like 1/4.[/QUOTE]

Hey Lin. I also notice a lot of people use the m416… but I actually always fall back to the aek. I thought you were saying earlier that the AEK was better then the M416. What is your opinion on them and their differences. I notice M416, AEK and then sometimes the F2000 or the AN94.

(ultraddtd) #202

I don’t understand this argument at all.

How can the way classes are set up now be limiting when everyone playing the game are playing by those same limits; i.e. everyone has to make a choice whether to specialize and put everything into one class, or spread the skills out?

If you specialize in one class, then if you need to switch your at a disadvantage to those who didn’t, but you’ll be at an advantage in the specific class you choose to max out. And on the flip side, if you don’t specialize then you’ll might be at a slight disadvantage against people who did specialize, but you’ll be mroe useful in every role.

This is something everyone will have to deal with in the game, therefore, relative to Brink, everyone is on equal footing.

(Bridger) #203

Because some specs are better than others. Theoretically my medic spec isn’t going to look the same as your medic spec. That’s what customization is.

We could all be the same character, same abilities, same weapons… hell let’s have the same clothes and body type. That’d make it easy to counter your enemy wouldn’t it. That’s a way more fun and colourful way to play. </SARCASM for all you who don’t get it>

The slippery slope fallacy. Accepting the premise that being able to change between multiple characters and/or ability specs does not logically extend to everyone being the same (not if the game is balanced anyway).

BTW. Brink may be ET3, but it is NOT W:ET2 or ETQW2…

This is non-sense. It’s like saying “Return of the Jedi is Star Wars 3, not A new Hope 2 or Empire Strikes Back 2.” What exactly is the point you are trying to make here?

(Bridger) #204

This. If all-heavies or all-lights or some extreme is viable, then I don’t have a single problem with not changing bodytype in game. I speculate that there will be non-viable team constructions, however. A team where nobody wants to play medic because their characters are all specced out for other things, for example.

In these instances, being able to change character mid-match will help alleviate such things. It sounds like proponents of the status-quo are saying “sub-optimal is fine! Just enjoy the game!” They don’t seem to value the actual goals of the game, but rather the experience in pursuing those goals (woah! look at that crazy shot!). I value both.

(Bridger) #205

[QUOTE=ultraddtd;274231]I don’t understand this argument at all.

How can the way classes are set up now be limiting when everyone playing the game are playing by those same limits; i.e. everyone has to make a choice whether to specialize and put everything into one class, or spread the skills out?

If you specialize in one class, then if you need to switch your at a disadvantage to those who didn’t, but you’ll be at an advantage in the specific class you choose to max out. And on the flip side, if you don’t specialize then you’ll might be at a slight disadvantage against people who did specialize, but you’ll be mroe useful in every role.

This is something everyone will have to deal with in the game, therefore, relative to Brink, everyone is on equal footing.[/QUOTE]

But when putting that together with a random pub environment, one team might randomly have characters that work well together (2 of each class, good distribution of heavies/mediums/lights, etc.) and the other team might have a randomly bad composition. In this instance there is a random element outside of player control that has given one side an advantage. This may not be a huge advantage, but it’s still not good game design if you want games to be fun (I think we can all agree that even playing field is better than a tilted one?).

(Senethro) #206

http://denkirson.xanga.com/722757523/bad-company-2/

Go crunch the numbers. The AEK and M416 have become more similar through the patches and get more similar the longer the range of the fire fight. The AEK iron sights are pretty good though.

IMO the AEK and 416 are good all round assault rifles, the F2000 is a silly gimmick close range and the AN94 is beastly at mid-long while still being respectable up close.

(DarkangelUK) #207

[QUOTE=Ragoo;274211]I’m not arguing that we won’t work together as a team. SD has pretty good ideas how to force us to do that with the XP bribing and healing yourself being more costly than healing your teammate and everything.

What I’m saying is that with very specific team compositions that are not well rounded it will be way harder to work efficiently together with a pub team.

I’m not saying that certain stuff won’t work, like an all heavy team with high level abilites only for Operative and Engineer. I’m just saying that if I was randomly placed in that team on pub I don’t think “hooray, let’s see what cool stuff we can do with that”. Because coordinating this “cool stuff” that you could do with this on a pub server is not at all easy.
I just think a well rounded team will work more efficiently if players don’t know each other and don’t communicate (and in a random pub match that’s the case).[/QUOTE]

Just remember, the enemy team is in the exact same boat… it’s not like they have an upper hand over you. They can’t carry abilities over, they can’t predict the perfect set up either… you’re at no more of a loss or gain than they are.

(Senethro) #208

Yeah, thats the point. If both teams can’t predict and can’t respond to a situation then it is “fair” but also subject to a lot more luck than is desirable. Depending on how strong the counters are it can be rock/paper/scissors.

Actually, I just remembered my standard response. Play only with friends and always stack teams. That way you can be more certain about classes on your team and plan accordingly.

(Bridger) #209

Correct, when blind picking, the enemy team is in the same boat. But after picking and joining a server, they can be at an advantage/disadvantage. At that point they are no longer in the same boat. They are in the “randomly got put on a cohesive team” boat or the “randomly got put on a team missing a critical piece” boat.

(tokamak) #210

If you have three different types out of which one is a hybrid then there’s no way you can talk about counters to anything.

If there are counters then these are going to be situational, depending on the environment and the players present, and that’s where the fun start as it’s entirely up to you to make sure you mitigate the disadvantageous situations and exploit the advantageous situations. And that’s going to require a whole lot more skill than simply selecting the configuration that fits a particular situation the best.

(LyndonL) #211

Actually that’s wrong. Starwars was a trilogy. Each movie followed on from the last.

Enemy Territory is a style of game. It’s the objective class based system. ETQW2 would be a new game with exactly the same options (with a few extras) and same mechanics exactly, with the same characters Strogg vs GDF etc etc.

Brink is a game in the ET series, but it’s not a followup to the other ET games so don’t be wanting everything to be the same as the old games.

(Weeohhweeohh) #212

IMO, I have confidence that SD has taking its time to balance everything to the point of a random team not missing a “critical piece”. It would be ridiculous to think that a key objective would be in a place where a heavy could not reach. Sure, it may take him longer to get there, but it won’t be inaccessible.

Random is random and luck is luck. I don’t think it’s bad game design. It sounds like you want there to be some Overload governing body/program that hold your hand and allows everyone to have to same chance. When does that even happen in life? Think of being on a random team as a challenge.

…and before you come back with, well if nothing is critical, then why not be able to change. Persistent character development. If you are playing a ken doll, fine, get Brink on PC and mod it. If you plan on creating a personal, complex avatar who has weight and is a special snow flake, then play the game how SD intended.

Speaking about bad game design. When I complete an objective, I want someone from SD or Beth to hand me some cotton candy and rub my back. I’m not going to really enjoy myself if this doesn’t happen.

(tokamak) #213

If we all ignore tokamak, Weeohhweeohh and H0RSE, maybe they will go away?

(Senethro) #214

[QUOTE=tokamak;274293]If you have three different types out of which one is a hybrid then there’s no way you can talk about counters to anything.

If there are counters then these are going to be situational, depending on the environment and the players present, and that’s where the fun start as it’s entirely up to you to make sure you mitigate the disadvantageous situations and exploit the advantageous situations. And that’s going to require a whole lot more skill than simply selecting the configuration that fits a particular situation the best.[/QUOTE]

Even with relatively comparable teams, what options did GDF have to mitigate Quarry and Slipgate? Those two maps accounted for much of the disparity between the GDF and Strogg total wins.

Now there will be a narrower range of responses available to individual players and the random assortment of players into teams means some responses may be unavailable entirely. That could turn any map into an uphill struggle.

(tokamak) #215

Would you look at that, you’re using specific maps (or even map phases) as an example, thereby proving my point that it’s all situational.

(Senethro) #216

Sometimes the bad situation will be the map, sometimes the bad situation will be the lack of options in a team, sometimes both. The former is apparently unavoidable with dud maps popping up in every game, the latter is new and unwelcome.

(tokamak) #217

The latter offers so much new depth to a game that it’s worth biting the bullet and ensuring the former is taken care of as best as possible.

(Senethro) #218

Ending up on offense with five sentry-specced Lights is not my idea of depth.

(tokamak) #219

It sounds incredibly interesting actually. I would love to be on that team.

(Senethro) #220

Yes, what a knee slapper it would be to be forced back into your heavily fortified spawn.