The new phantom


([ *O.C.B.* ] Wildcard) #81

@GatoCommodore said:
i feel like the most OP merc right now is nader

but nobody talks about her because its newbie’s favourite

if a good experienced players used it, its even more devastating

Something tells me you play a lot of Mercs with 90 hp and below, as they’re the primary victims of Nader and Fletcher right now, due to how they are within 1shot hp range for their abilities. :wink:

Admittedly, when you are within that HP range, even the spam can prove deadly; to Nader’s credit though, her grenades have a longer cooldown than they used to. The grenades now have a cooldown of 10 seconds per grenade; meaning it takes up to 50 seconds, at least 2 full spawn waves, to replenish her supply of grenades completely.


(KangaJoo) #82

Is there some set of graphics settings I need to use in order to see phantoms? I’ve always been the type of player who checks corners all the time anyway and I find that even when I know there’s a phantom player around me, I literally run straight into them without seeing them at all. The only times I can see them are when they’re moving. Maybe it’s because I play with AA off so the stationary shimmer effect just looks like aliasing to me?


(martha_smith) #83

MAKE PHANTOM FULLY INVISIBLE


(fzl) #84

muhahaha

nobody wants to play public atm…ok without the pantom players…

more visible in the next 2 weeks or this game is over boys…!!!

i speak here only 4 myself but i play atm ranked only…!! why? …no phantom noobing in ranked…!!

this buff is 4 me the greatest shit ever…but make more stupid buffs like this sd and the game is finally dead…


(GatoCommodore) #85

@Eox said:

@GatoCommodore said:
i feel like the most OP merc right now is nader

but nobody talks about her because its newbie’s favourite

if a good experienced players used it, its even more devastating

Newbies can’t do anything with Nader aside from wasting all their nades and be totally hopeless once they have none. This and spamming F as soon as they go down.

@-OCB-Wildcard said:

@GatoCommodore said:
i feel like the most OP merc right now is nader

but nobody talks about her because its newbie’s favourite

if a good experienced players used it, its even more devastating

Something tells me you play a lot of Mercs with 90 hp and below, as they’re the primary victims of Nader and Fletcher right now, due to how they are within 1shot hp range for their abilities. :wink:

Admittedly, when you are within that HP range, even the spam can prove deadly; to Nader’s credit though, her grenades have a longer cooldown than they used to. The grenades now have a cooldown of 10 seconds per grenade; meaning it takes up to 50 seconds, at least 2 full spawn waves, to replenish her supply of grenades completely.

sparks, kira and proxy
so yea.

i’ve faced a really good nader with a decent spark player, these two are only level 15 but they are obviously communicate really well. These two obliterated an entire team to the point of spawn camping defenders in chapel 2nd objective and being spawn camped in chapel 2nd objective is really rare for me.

Anything spawned will get nade to the face and if it doesnt die the spark kill it with the revivr.

i know the utility of nader nades is wide and varied but i didnt know it can be done in such way that allow for indirect fire that are more accurate and more often. You dont need to kill in one hit when you have crotzni and a good buddy to help finish off low HP enemies.

since then i’ve been practicing my nader skills and watch some youtube guide on nader bounces.

people saying javelin is OP even though she can shoot ONCE every 20 sec
Nader have a better damage potential than what Javelin could ever hope.


(Darkwolf3802) #86

@Eox said:

@GatoCommodore said:
i feel like the most OP merc right now is nader

but nobody talks about her because its newbie’s favourite

if a good experienced players used it, its even more devastating

Newbies can’t do anything with Nader aside from wasting all their nades and be totally hopeless once they have none. This and spamming F as soon as they go down.

Its ez, just shoot her. Works quite well for me when using turtle, bushwhacker and aura and when she goes down just keep shooting her. If your not close martyrdom dont work for shit.


(GatoCommodore) #87

@Eox said:

@GatoCommodore said:
i feel like the most OP merc right now is nader

but nobody talks about her because its newbie’s favourite

if a good experienced players used it, its even more devastating

Newbies can’t do anything with Nader aside from wasting all their nades and be totally hopeless once they have none. This and spamming F as soon as they go down.

@Darkwolf3802 said:

@Eox said:

@GatoCommodore said:
i feel like the most OP merc right now is nader

but nobody talks about her because its newbie’s favourite

if a good experienced players used it, its even more devastating

Newbies can’t do anything with Nader aside from wasting all their nades and be totally hopeless once they have none. This and spamming F as soon as they go down.

Its ez, just shoot her. Works quite well for me when using turtle, bushwhacker and aura and when she goes down just keep shooting her. If your not close martyrdom dont work for @$!#.

most of the time it works like this
die on a corner, enemies who dont know there’s a nader body there ran to corner, kabloosh.


(Stokes1) #88

I agree Phantom needs some tweaking, not being able to tell at all if he is around is sorta lame. At least the old way I had a chance to tell if he was around or behind me getting ready to knife me. But if SD keeps nerfing everything we won’t have anything left to shoot with, then why play at all?


(Adders2097) #89

Phantom breaks down all the fundamentals that the game values as “skill”. That is the main and only issue that needs to be addressed with this ridiculous merc. Phantom doesnt have to follow the same rules as every other merc does. Examples of this are:

-Ignoring choke points. JK he is invisable
-being aware of deployables (mines, turrets, heart beat monitors) also disables them for other players…
-Good aim? (do not require good aim when you have a second head start on other mercs)
-Katana…

The long and short of it is. As phantom you do not require good aim, map knowledge, game sense or the use of angles.

Now this is not “salt” this is just fact. The game relies on the fundamentals to separate the good players to the not so good players. Fixing this will also sort out what everyone else is crying for, which is match balance.

The frustration comes from a less skilled player besting you in a 1v1 with 0 or very little chance of success.

In conclusion Phantom doesnt follow what SD says they value in skill, therefor should not be in the game period. No nerfs or changes requires. Deleted completely and never ever be seen, EVER AGAIN!!!


(SiwaonaDaphnewen) #90

A week after update I may add something.

For last few days i’ve been stalking Phantoms in pubs with Red eye. Playing Red eye is kinda dumb way of counterplay. This merc prevents all those “much skill” Phantoms from their impudent sh@t. Try to prioritise Phantoms over other enemies, kill those a couple times while they are cloaked and you’ll see some people may change merc, rage quit or change team because “fucking Red eye ruins all the fun”.

Well if you make fun of others, somebody may make fun of you. This is how karma works. Not so easy to run with katana toward your victim while getting shot from a far isn’t it?

To think about it, latest patch made things even better for Red eye. Sure he can’t spot you for his team, but you don’t get notify if Red eye watches you atm, which otherwise would let you know to take cover and not overestimate cloak.

Another interesting thing is cloak hp. It used to provide you extra armor based on charge. Now cloak doesn’t provide armor and you eat all damage with your HP. Many people want to add decloak delay, but that means Red eye will take you out even before you can actually shoot back. I already told about that before patch.

As I told a week ago the Refractive armor is not what makes Phantom usefull. Being this powerfull it is still useless lone-wolf concept. He needs a good side ability and whatever he has atm is crap. Hunter is usefull EMP merc, Thunder was usefull EMP merc, Phantom is kinda meh. It doesn’t have to be EMP, but this is where SD should focus to make him viable choice.


(Runeforce) #91

How the evolution of Phantom went from a Genji-like character with a dash, to a invisible troller is beyond me. He takes all the enjoyment out of DB for me, so I am done with it, untill he is deleted, or at least fundamentally changed.


(ThomaZe) #92

Deleted him completely from the game!


(Rokon2) #93

@Xenithos said:

@watsyurdeal said:
Stealthy merc is good at being stealthy, immediate cry for a nerf

I heard this all the time with Spy, till people stuck together and started calling him out.

Before we even begin to talk about nerfing him learn how to fight him first. Then try seeing if he needs more potent counter play or counter picks.

A merc that capitalizes on exploting weak team work should not be nerfed immediately because of that, especially in a TEAM game.

What’s the difference between Spy and Phantom? You cannot immediately and instantly kill with Spy.

That’s the main problem here. If you manage to flank even once with Phantom, you are almost always guaranteed an instant kill, assuming you have Chopper. Moreover, Spy cannot bump anyone, lest he shimmers and becomes fodder for the opposing team. Phantom on the other hand doesn’t have to worry about that. While his cloak is improved, there’s really no risk Phantom has to take in order to capitalize in a successful flank, outside of someone literally standing there and watching the map for a shimmer.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve accidentally bumped into a Phantom, completely unaware that he’s standing right in front of me, only to get one shot, and I am observant of a lot of things in a match. There’s no audio cue, and if there is, it’s subtle, astronomically subtle.


([ *O.C.B.* ] Wildcard) #94

@Rokon2 said:

@Xenithos said:

@watsyurdeal said:
Stealthy merc is good at being stealthy, immediate cry for a nerf

I heard this all the time with Spy, till people stuck together and started calling him out.

Before we even begin to talk about nerfing him learn how to fight him first. Then try seeing if he needs more potent counter play or counter picks.

A merc that capitalizes on exploting weak team work should not be nerfed immediately because of that, especially in a TEAM game.

What’s the difference between Spy and Phantom? You cannot immediately and instantly kill with Spy.

That’s the main problem here. If you manage to flank even once with Phantom, you are almost always guaranteed an instant kill, assuming you have Chopper. Moreover, Spy cannot bump anyone, lest he shimmers and becomes fodder for the opposing team. Phantom on the other hand doesn’t have to worry about that. While his cloak is improved, there’s really no risk Phantom has to take in order to capitalize in a successful flank, outside of someone literally standing there and watching the map for a shimmer.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve accidentally bumped into a Phantom, completely unaware that he’s standing right in front of me, only to get one shot, and I am observant of a lot of things in a match. There’s no audio cue, and if there is, it’s subtle, astronomically subtle.

Well technically you can 1-shot all the characters with a Backstab with TF2’s Spy, the difference is he uses disguises and it is dropped whenever he attacks (this is also accompanied by a very easily distinguished sound effect to signify him dropping or changing disguises); not to mention characters will scream out in pain when it happens, further announcing the presence of the Spy. The only difference here is that phantom is not 100% invisible and can attack without having to be directly behind his target; in the Spy’s case, if they turn just enough while attempting to get in position for a Backstab he will instead perform a normal melee attack (Immediately losing his disguise and likely dying as a result).

P.S. Phantom does need tweaks, most likely, but he has more in common with the Spy from TF2 than you give him credit for; not to mention both have been complained about by the casual part of both Game’s community since inception, and ironically for the same exact reasons.


(woodchip) #95

Frankly, the TF2 spy design is just really bad and has no business in any modern game. I could care less whether Phantom is more or less toxic or OP than TF2 Spy.

There’s also a distinction between something being accepted or balanced in competitive and something being good for a game. You can imagine lots of characters that are sufficiently countered by team awareness or any number of other things at the top level who are untrammeled AIDS in casual play, moreover the majority such characters add very little to the competitive scene in the first place.

As a close example, you could give Proxy’s pancakes a suite of extreme buffs until she was slightly better than Fletcher at the very top tier of play. She still wouldn’t be ‘OP’ in the competitive sense, just strong. Casual players would whine, and competitive players would explain that you can deal with her with enough awareness and xyz. But at the end of the day vastly buffed pancakes would be bad game design, and both casual AND ranked would be much the worse for it.

TF2 spy is iffy game design. Current phantom is iffy game design. It’s not really a casual vs competitive issue.


(TheStrangerous) #96

I still don’t get one thing:

Vassili spots with golf ball.
Aimee spots with bat.
RedEye spots with glasses.
Hunter spots with darts.
Phantom …

Any REAL reason why Phantom wasn’t given like, oh I dunno… SPOTTING PULSE instead of EMP pulse. Or why not both?
Quite ironic, considering him being in the recon category… Then again, Guardian can’t heal… OW! You make merc groups confusing! Like irregular verbs!


(Tanker_Ray) #97

@Rokon2 said:

@Xenithos said:

@watsyurdeal said:
Stealthy merc is good at being stealthy, immediate cry for a nerf

I heard this all the time with Spy, till people stuck together and started calling him out.

Before we even begin to talk about nerfing him learn how to fight him first. Then try seeing if he needs more potent counter play or counter picks.

A merc that capitalizes on exploting weak team work should not be nerfed immediately because of that, especially in a TEAM game.

What’s the difference between Spy and Phantom? You cannot immediately and instantly kill with Spy.

That’s the main problem here. If you manage to flank even once with Phantom, you are almost always guaranteed an instant kill, assuming you have Chopper. Moreover, Spy cannot bump anyone, lest he shimmers and becomes fodder for the opposing team. Phantom on the other hand doesn’t have to worry about that. While his cloak is improved, there’s really no risk Phantom has to take in order to capitalize in a successful flank, outside of someone literally standing there and watching the map for a shimmer.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve accidentally bumped into a Phantom, completely unaware that he’s standing right in front of me, only to get one shot, and I am observant of a lot of things in a match. There’s no audio cue, and if there is, it’s subtle, astronomically subtle.

Most Accurate Comment I’ve ever seen.

Even before his rework, standing still on the respawn passage and stabbing under 90HP mercs were so effective.

Plus Phoenix with Chopper of course.

Amount of profit from one shot one kill in this game is just too huge.


(Diosito) #98

Remove the katana, give him a Kukri/Combat Knife/Stilnotto Stiletto, problem solved.

Too many recons not helping at all, ruining the game.

Abbadon

Abaddon


(JonBongNoJovi) #99

They should revert back to his previous build until fixed , way things are going i’m going to uninstall whilst he’s left as is.


(Xenithos) #100

@TheStrangerous said:
I still don’t get one thing:

Vassili spots with golf ball.
Aimee spots with bat.
RedEye spots with glasses.
Hunter spots with darts.
Phantom …

Any REAL reason why Phantom wasn’t given like, oh I dunno… SPOTTING PULSE instead of EMP pulse. Or why not both?
Quite ironic, considering him being in the recon category… Then again, Guardian can’t heal… OW! You make merc groups confusing! Like irregular verbs!

If you play Phantom in DBN or anywhere else you’ll find that he’s an incredible recon over comms. You can give a lot of information without the enemy KNOWING they’re spotted. Much more valuable imo.