The "/kill"

(SwordOfDamocles) #1

Hi there,

Since I played RTCW I knew that the /kill command could be exploited in spurious ways.

             (i) executing the command when you are about to be killed by someone - thereby denying them their rightful frag.

*When this is done it is often because the "/killer" does not think you deserve to kill him because you were shooting him in the back, had more hitpoints than him at the start of the firefight, or any other advantage. It seems that this type of "/kill" is sadly only so that the "/killer" does not [b][i]lose face.[/i][/b]

             (ii) executing the command so that you start with a full HUD again after having fired a panzer etc. and wanting to fire another almost immediately. This is so that the "killer" gains an unfair advantage overother players (imo).

             (iii) executing the command so that you can die, and pick a spawn point closer to where you want/need to be. Imo, if you find yourself in the wrong part of the map and not where you need to be, it is your own fault for not having "read the game" properly with regard to prediction of what is going to happen etc. A necessary skill in itself which can be circumnavigated by use of the "/kill".

             I realise that this is a highly controversial thread. [b]Please do not flame me for my opinions, simply post yours and justify them.[/b]

             I would be really interested to hear your opinions on this subject. Thanks for your time.

                  Dave/ SoD.
(DrGonzo) #2

what i wonder about: is there any disadvantage in “/killing” (like losing frags or xp)??
how can a panzerpussy exploit the “/kill” (i’m instantly dropped into spawn-row when i press my “/kill”-bind!!) ??? btw: if this really works its bug exploiting (i don’t think “item-spamming” was meant to be part of the game)!!

(SwordOfDamocles) #3

@ Dr. Gonzo:

I don’t believe there is any penalty in XP/frags for executing the “/kill”. You are dropped into spawn row when you execute it because that is how it works…It is just that a player who wants to be able to panzer again straight after his first shot can do so or do so sooner if spawn time is coming around before his HUD would have filled up to the necessary amount.

(Loffy) #4

Hi!
We do it alot when we play our clan wars. I guess we do it because it works, it is not against swedish league rules and we want to win. I have no moral problem with it.
I must admit though that it really sucks when you get owned by a clan. And especially when that clan has a very skilled panzerplayer. And he or she uses /kill for optimal panzerperformance (/kill when it is just 2-3 sec. to next spawn). Brrr. Not nice at all. “Helvete!”, I cry over the voice comm, when i get gibbed.
But, since we use this tactics ourselves, I cant say anything.
What to do? I dont know. A penalty for each time you use /kill? Eg. XP-reduction.
// Loffy

(Kendle) #5

Yes, controversial, and an age-old subject, but here goes:-

So? The player doing the “/kill” still dies? If your concern is that he’s denied you your rightful XP, then you’re a points whore who deserves to lose it. (not saying you are S.O.D., cos I know you’re not).

What’s advantageous about being out of position? How can you fire a Panzer again immediately if you’ve got to trudge back to where you were before you “/killed” yourself?

The game is built around the concept of dying and re-spawning. And you can re-spawn somewhere else if you die “of natural causes”, so why not if you “/kill” yourself?

What people who don’t agree with “/kill” invariably fail to appreciate, is that there are penalties to be suffered for doing it.

[ul]
[li]You will have to wait a few seconds before you re-spawn again. During which time you’re of no use to your team.
[/li][li]You will almost certainly be out of position and will have to waste more time re-joining the action.
[/li][/ul]
Plus, if you removed “/kill” people would only do it some other way (like blow themselves up with a grenade). It’s a built-in game mechanism, to say using it is an “exploit” is like saying “strafe-jumping” is an exploit.

(Loffy) #6

Hm, the panzerplayer will benefit from /kill in those situations where he or she defends an area which is close to the spawnpoint. But you knew that already. :slight_smile: Im just argueing. The second spawn for axis on Oasis for example. The panzer can guard the tunnel exits, and shot allied soldiers that charge towards the two guns. Remember on Beach in RtCW?: axis second spawn, overlooking the trenches. Hm, Ive been owned so many times there, when playing allied. Sod is pointing to a phenomenon that is so frustrating sometimes: skilled panzerplayers who dominate partly because they have mastered the technique to /kill when it’s 2-3 sec to next spawn.
However, I believe that players that use /kill arent always doing it solely to deny the enemy a frag. I, for example, use /kill when I play as engi. When we play as allied, and attack the guns on Oasis, I can press /kill, in some situations. Like, when all are dead but me. Just to “get back” to my buddies. And it does happen that the second before I press /kill, I see an enemy attacking me.
// L.

(twiFight) #7

my opinion?
My opinion is that this discussion has been gone over before on this board.
Simply look in the other thread

(SwordOfDamocles) #8

hmmm, all fair points, sorry for rehashing old ground.

Not to say I agree with them or the offensive manner in which some of the points were put forward by some.

By Kendle: If your concern is that he’s denied you your rightful XP, then you’re a points whore who deserves to lose it.

Come on, don’t just flame me: I am not an XP whore, there are skill advantages to be gained / not gained in this situation, where one player could invariably lose out unfairly due to use of the /kill.

By Kendle: (not saying you are S.O.D., cos I know you’re not).

    I don't understand what u mean here, could you clarify for me?

            thx. Dave.[/b][i][/i]
(twiFight) #9

I don’t understand what u mean here, could you clarify for me?

Son Of a Ditch :smiley:

(Kendle) #10

When I said “If your concern is that he’s denied you your rightful XP…” I wasn’t refering to you in particular, S.O.D. I meant anyone in general, hence the clarification with “not saying you are”. I’ve played with you and know you’re not a point-whore, and never meant to imply that you were, sorry if it came across that way.

However, one argument against “/kill” to deny the enemy a frag is that it also denies the enemy their points. Anyone that cares about losing XP, to a certain extent, is a point-whore in my book. You’re right, however, in that it also denies the would-be killer the skill advantage the XP would have contributed to. But then XP is strangling ET IMO and I’m getting to hate it more and more each day. If there were no XP people would have no choice but to use good old-fashioned “practise” to become better players and wouldn’t care whether their opponent had died by their hand, or their own.

(nate.h) #11

This is one of the reasons I run MaxLives servers. I’ve never personally seen this problem; life is too precious to waste on a /kill just because you’re throwing a temper tantrum. Even with maxlives at 15-18, it affects gameplay little directly (I.e. most often the entire team does not skull out), but keeps things like suicide rushes and /killpanzers from being prevalent.

Certainly the way to play the game, in my experience.

Ugh. Time for breakfast. Damn hurricane party last night…
:beer:

(twiFight) #12

still wondering what s.o.d. stands for tho

(Kendle) #13

Look at his name, Sword Of Damocles. He uses S.O.D. in-game. :bash:

(pgh) #14

I’ve no problem with it, I use it. :slight_smile:

(Sick Boy) #15

I agree, this is just lame, on publics they should kick people who do this all the time, in matchplay it should be forbidden or the whole experience system should be taken out.

             (ii) executing the command so that you start with a full HUD again after having fired a panzer etc. and wanting to fire another almost immediately. This is so that the "killer" gains an unfair advantage overother players (imo).

             (iii) executing the command so that you can die, and pick a spawn point closer to where you want/need to be. Imo, if you find yourself in the wrong part of the map and not where you need to be, it is your own fault for not having "read the game" properly with regard to prediction of what is going to happen etc. A necessary skill in itself which can be circumnavigated by use of the "/kill".

I think these are two examples how /kill enriches this game with tactical options. I like them both :slight_smile: And most matchplayers do AFAIK.

There is a great disadvantage to /kill everyone keeps forgetting:
It’s very bad for your battlesense XP.

The timer starts to count when you spawn, if you can kill/hurt any enemy and you can stay alive for 30 secs, you gain battlesense XP and the timer resets to 0 again. From the manual (yes! there IS a manual! :eek2: ) :

Players gain ZERO points for each 30 seconds survived while ‘Cold’ i.e. not actively engaged in combat. You’ll earn 2XP per 30 seconds while ‘Warm’ (you inflicted damage), 5XP per 30 seconds while ‘Hot’ (dealing AND receiving damage) and 8XP if ‘Super-Hot’ (killing and receiving damage).

As /kill is being used mostly by the defending team, and the defending team’s respawn time is almost always 30 secs, everytime you use /kill you deny yourself of the battlesence XP you would have gotten since your last respawn time. If you /kill yourself before every spawn, you will get a nice total of 0 points.

(twiFight) #16

True, and a valid argument indeed, yet I don’t think the xp missed weighs up to the kills/tactical advantage gained

(SylverDragon) #17

Personally, I’ve never noticed anyone doing the first two sorts of /kill’s. It just seems to me that /killing yourself before someone else takes you out in a firefight would be a pain to do at best, and down right dumb at worst. Unless the guy completely got the drop on you and had two head shots into you already, you’re better off turning to fight and/or run away. At the very least you would bang your attacker up quite a bit before going down. And at that point, unless its a real easy key to get to, /killing yourself before dieing just seems a bit difficult to me, though having never tried it, or thought about it for that matter, maybe I am wrong on this count.
As for /killing to get a full power bar, that does seem a bit more likely. Might be useful for an axis panzers on battery and field ops for that matter. Though this just seems like a poor way to play the game, I wouldn’t call it cheating, but still it lacks some class.
The third one, /killing to get to a different spawn, that one is useful. In fact I did this last night, at least once. On Fuel Depot, as an axis engy, once the tunnel grate is blown, I generally want to get back to the depot as fast as possible and start setting up for the inevitable onslaught of covert/engy pairs. So, I simply /killed myself and changed my spawn point to the depot. Build the defenses, set mines and wait for the attackers. Paid off last night too. Had a covert and engy come through the door, and stop to check for mines (which were there), however, I was on the ledge above them, primed a gernade and dropped it at thier feet. BOOM, one covert with uni and one engy dead. In the end, we (the axis) won that map. Sure, if /kill wasn’t available as an option, I would have simply eaten one of my own gernades, but it did save me the trouble.

(kotkis) #18

AFAIK (bani can correct me if I’m wrong) ETPro, which will be used in the CB ET-CUP and probably later in the ET-ladder too, will give you an empty charge bar if you /kill. I hope this will reduce the spam which is at least for me a pain in the ass. Otherwise I consider /kill to be a great tactical tool that improves the game.

Sylver Dragon, in fact using /kill in a fire fight is quite easy (you need to bind it to some key first of course…). For example if you’re against a panzer who has pressed his fire key and you hear the creeping sound you’ve plenty of time to press your kill bind. I consider this to be lame, but if they lose the whole charge bar for doing that, I think it’s ok.

(Englander) #19

I was on a server other day were /kill command didnt work,wish they all were like this.

I really hate it when in a duel someone /kill ,its nothing to do with the XP I just find it pathetic that someone constantly uses it,ill not name names but I know people who use it at least 10 to 15 times a round in duels alone and to me that just isnt playing the game and i feel there taking the game too serious .I also get worried that when new players come to the game will copy it and you end up with alot more /killers in the future.

When it comes to /kill to get the charge quicker than they would if they waited like they should,thats simply cheating the system and I see F-Ops using it as much as anyone.

(twiFight) #20

Am I the only one that has never noticed anyone using this bug/feature?