i think that was 3rd person. not too sure though, long time ago 
anyways. does anyone know for sure what 1st person shooter invented the ironsight? just out of curiousity.
the iron...sigh(t)
tokamak
(tokamak)
#42
Yeah I think it was Delta Force in 1998.
**** shouldâve saved that for a quiz.
Metal-Geo
(Metal-Geo)
#43
Youâre saying it as if itâs wrong to enjoy a game of Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead.
Both these games are doing great without any iron sights.
Iron sights kind of kill the ârun and gunâ approach. Which, ironically enough, is what a lot of FPS gamers grew up with. And enjoy.
Anyway, as long as I donât have to use iron sight to get a kill, Iâm cool with its presence.
Free2game
(Free2game)
#44
[QUOTE=Metal-Geo;219484]Youâre saying it as if itâs wrong to enjoy a game of Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead.
Both these games are doing great without any iron sights.
Iron sights kind of kill the ârun and gunâ approach. Which, ironically enough, is what a lot of FPS gamers grew up with. And enjoy.
Anyway, as long as I donât have to use iron sight to get a kill, Iâm cool with its presence.[/QUOTE]
L4D does actually feel outdated because of it imo. Design wise it takes the place of ducking for better aim, at the pace youâre at with TF2 youâre rarely ducking anyway, but with L4D you do it all of the time.
H0RSE
(H0RSE)
#45
Design wise it takes the place of ducking for better aim, at the pace youâre at with TF2 youâre rarely ducking anyway
When Iâm not running around shooting or healing or whatnot, Iâm pretty much always ducking - in practically every FPS game I play.
New game without ironsights looks outdated IMO.
Basically, If I see someone say something like this, it tells me that either A) youâre a young gamer, or B) regardless of your age, youâre new to gaming. To me, a gaming veteran wouldnât say something so petty about a game mechanic. Itâs like people who donât watch movies from 70âs (or before) because they look âold.â
tinManz
(tinManz)
#46
Personally I think iron sights should be looked at as an aesthetic plus as well as a technical one. The game should be accessible to players who choose not to use iron sights, but at the same time allow players to shoot better at something farther by giving them a zoom. Now keep and mind how well someone shoots is up to personal skill, but iron sights bring the sense of realism that if you aim down your sights , accuracy will most likely improve.This only becomes unfair when a players accuracy is dependent on the ADS itself rather than a players skill
BeyondSpectrality
(BeyondSpectrality)
#47
Unfortunately H0RSE there are way too many people who look at games with an attitude of, âIf it doesnât incorporate features that are common place, itâs old or out of date.â When my friend played Bioshock for the first time he said the guns felt generic, old, and simplistic because all he had to do was point and shootâŚ
However, I like Iron Sights as long as when youâre not using them you can still kill something. Keeping the Run and Gun option alive with some tactical options to boot.
^Neat article thing at Giant Bomb on Iron Sights, kind of tells you about how they are affecting FPS games.
And Delta Force in 1998 is officially the original game to bring in Iron Sights, next in line (other than the later entries of Delta Force) is some online WWII shooter in 2001 and then Metal Gear Solid 2âŚ
CrazyâŚ
H0RSE
(H0RSE)
#48
Unfortunately H0RSE there are way too many people who look at games with an attitude of, âIf it doesnât incorporate features that are common place, itâs old or out of date.â When my friend played Bioshock for the first time he said the guns felt generic, old, and simplistic because all he had to do was point and shootâŚ
My point is, how old is your friend? how long has he been gaming? Does he play PC games? and how many shooters has he played without ironsights?
ironsights are just an added buton - added frustration and added animations. Ironsights are designed to give the player added accuracy - if you incorporate that added accuracy into the weapon by default, you just made ironsights pointless. Why should I have to sacrifice movement and FOV just to hit a target at long range? I get punished for aiming? ridiculous. If I see an enemy, I should just be able to point and shoot, not point and shooâŚoh, heâs just out of rangeâŚthe crosshair on the screen is apparently lying to me - now I have to enter tunnel vision mode, and give up my movement, just to increase my chances at hitting - not guarantee it. I really donât feel like playing mini-games when Iâm trying to aimâŚthatâs what ironsights are like to me.
SEVERE_31
(SEVERE 31)
#49
I like Iron Sights it makes it feal a lil more realistic, but i dont like when u cant make a shot without them.
BeyondSpectrality
(BeyondSpectrality)
#50
[QUOTE=H0RSE;219497]My point is, how old is your friend? how long has he been gaming? Does he play PC games? and how many shooters has he played without ironsights?
ironsights are just an added buton - added frustration and added animations. Ironsights are designed to give the player added accuracy - if you incorporate that added accuracy into the weapon by default, you just made ironsights pointless. Why should I have to sacrifice movement and FOV just to hit a target at long range? I get punished for aiming? ridiculous. If I see an enemy, I should just be able to point and shoot, not point and shooâŚoh, heâs just out of rangeâŚthe crosshair on the screen is apparently lying to me - now I have to enter tunnel vision mode, and give up my movement, just to increase my chances at hitting - not guarantee it. I really donât feel like playing mini-games when Iâm trying to aimâŚthatâs what ironsights are like to me.[/QUOTE]
I know what you mean, He is 25 and his first shooter was Doom, but admittedly he likes
MMOs and RPGs more than FPS games ;/ He is also a fan of slower paced shooters like Americaâs ArmyâŚI recently got him into TF2 THOUGH!
How much spread variation is too much and how much is too little?
Qhullu
(Qhullu)
#51
i donât really like images that show spread since they usually just show the sprayânâpray spread, which at least in rtcw/et doesnât work and isnât used, and not the effect time has on how the spread grows (first bullet 100% accurate, second slightly less, third slighly less etc). also the image above is missing the effect moving your mouse has on spread, which in rtcw/et makes a big difference on how fights play out.
anyways, i think the various types of spread systems on guns came about when people realized there arenât that many types of guns possible in computer games, for example in quake3:
rapid firing hitscan: lightning gun (plus mg)
slow firing hitscan: railgun
wide spread hitscan: shotgun
rapid firing projectile: plasma gun
slow firing projectile: rocket launcher
curved path projectile: grenade launcher
rest is just tweaking their attributes to create a fair balance between the types, and in some cases making many versions of a type of gun. which is why Brink having a ton of guns with different âbuffsâ gives me pause, how on earth are they going to create a balance between all of them so that each of them is something that you might choose to use, that without extensive testing/balancing with the help of people to whom it actually makes a difference (balance issues only mean something when skill in using the guns isnât the major contributing factor).
in any case, one gun iâd like to see in brink is a grenade launcher with a kind of a spring system that launches the grenade at a speed that is determined by how long you hold down the mousebutton, where the grenade of course explodes on impact with anything, not having some weird proximity trigger et riflenade uses.
+1
as far as i can see, unless they make the guns pretty much useless beyond a certain distance without it, all an ironsight option adds to the crouch option is better visibility, which only helps if the visibility is poor in the first place. i mean, if there is a certain distance where an ironsight becomes a preferable option, at twice that distance it is the only option.
kilL_888
(kilL_888)
#52
nah, im against this. the way its now is pretty much ok for me. that âhold button downâ is just too unrealistic. not meaning that im a fan of realistic shooters, im not. if you want to shoot your grenade as far as possible, just aim up. also, do you know that in brink you can actually kill someone when hitting a person with the grenade itself? i think thats pretty cool. you shoot, hit someone with the grenade, kill that guy, and the grenade bounces back to you and explodes kinda funny. but well, thats an extreme example of what could happen if you aim right (or wrong 
)
H0RSE
(H0RSE)
#53
as far as i can see, unless they make the guns pretty much useless beyond a certain distance without it, all an ironsight option adds to the crouch option is better visibility,
It does grant a slight zoom to your target, but it reduces FOV, removes peripheral vision, and slows movement (both aiming and walking speed) Crouch gives you greater accuracy, doesnât compromise vision, and only slows movement speed, not aiming speed.
If you must add ironsights, just make it tighten the crosshair on my screen - make it emulate crouching without crouching. Otherwise, I say remove it.
FFSturm
(FFSturm)
#54
[QUOTE=kilL_888;219455]i think that was 3rd person. not too sure though, long time ago
anyways. does anyone know for sure what 1st person shooter invented the ironsight? just out of curiousity.[/QUOTE]
Hidden and dangerous was both 3rd person and 1st person shooter.
And it had Iron-Sights but it was in the 1999
signofzeta
(signofzeta)
#56
I donât think iron sights affect gameplay, so as long as you can fire from the hip. ETQW has iron sights, and they are only for long range, or it could be just for show.
Even if iron sights were in the game, like I said in the Wolf forums, it is no big of a deal if you donât use them. But if the game has ridonkulus spread that you NEED to use them, then there is a problem.
I think it isnât the ironsights, but the spread of the weapon at different ranges. Imagine Wolf ET with ironsights. Just the graphic is there, but the spread of the weapon never changes. Will you complain about that?
kilL_888
(kilL_888)
#57
[QUOTE=signofzeta;219805]
I think it isnât the ironsights, but the spread of the weapon at different ranges. Imagine Wolf ET with ironsights. Just the graphic is there, but the spread of the weapon never changes. Will you complain about that?[/QUOTE]
well, imagine wolf:et with ironsights would change the gameplay drasticly. so, yea, if this would be added with a patch i would complain my ass off
but i think most of us agree here and i try to sum things up.
ironsight working as zoom at larger distance to prevent major spread: good.
ironsight working to prevent major spread at close distance: bad.
im fine with that. not happy, but fine :rolleyes: i would be really happy with no rionsight at all.
Voxie
(Voxie)
#58
The general consensus of Brinkâs target audience seems to be that iron sights are a god damn requirement (I remember reading the Left 4 Dead forums shortly after release and there was thread after thread of people requesting the ability to aim down the sight in an arcady zombie shooter, so the sheeple - sorry, console players - will without a doubt want iron sights. But, as has been stated before, have a little faith in Splash Damage and keep in mind that though they want to lure some players from the CoD franchise to this game, this game is higher paced - meaning the bullet spread hopefully wonât be the same as in, say, Call of Duty - and developed by one of the few game companies that still swears by the PC.
Remember that constantly complaining and bickering (though I understand your cause!) about features set in stone will just keep the developers from actively posting on the forum, not encourage them to radically change the game in the 11th hour.
Qhullu
(Qhullu)
#59
yea, iâve been playing some Just Cause 2 demo while waiting for the full game to be released here and itâs apparent how much easier the lowered sensitivity caused by the ironsight system makes aiming at things for someone like me who is not that good with a gamepad. in that game shooting without ironsight is very forgiving, you just need to point in the general direction of the enemy to hit them whereas using ironsight the bullets go where you point.
signofzeta
(signofzeta)
#60
[quote=kilL_888;219855]well, imagine wolf:et with ironsights would change the gameplay drasticly. so, yea, if this would be added with a patch i would complain my ass off
but i think most of us agree here and i try to sum things up.
ironsight working as zoom at larger distance to prevent major spread: good.
ironsight working to prevent major spread at close distance: bad.
im fine with that. not happy, but fine :rolleyes: i would be really happy with no rionsight at all.[/quote]
how so? Even if everything was the same, and the Ironsight graphic was just for show? I guess with a little zoom, but not much. But without the zoom, you will still think Ironsights stink just because there is a gun in your face? Or that the gun is centered on the screen and not to the side?
I think what you donât like is the spread of the gun, and that relying on ironsights to reduce the spread in every range is what you hate. You donât hate the ironsights itself. Because Ironsights is only the graphic, while the real enemy is the spread of the weapon. If the spread is actually good without ironsights, and ironsights are only used to decrease spread with expense to speed, so that is, it is best at long ranges, I donât see a problem with it. Hence why I made my statement if you would like to have ironsights in ET, if nothing else changed, just the addition of the graphic.
I was trying to explain that before Wolf2 came out to the RTCW fans who never realize that the ironsights is just a graphic, and always connect ironsights to Call of Duty, which is false.
Unless, unless Ironsight is a pseudonym for the action of decreasing spread with decreased movement speed, and not actually the putting the gun up to your face type of thing. Because I know of some games that play like Call of Duty, but donât have ironsights. Namely battlefield 1942, and older games that use a simple zoom, and donât have ironsights.