The Grandeur?


(Amerika) #41

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;89213”]Like I said in another thread, the Grandeur just needs that first shot accuracy to be better. The recoil and bloom will prevent it from being too spammy, but the first shot accuracy needs to be good enough to hit a Vasilli in the head from one end of the street to the other on Chapel.

That’s just my opinion though.[/quote]

Heh, apparently I need to do some more testing with this thing while iron sighted. If you slow this down to 0.25 speed and watch me shoot at the Nader trying to return it looks as if I should have hit the head. 14minutes, 19 seconds.

Maybe it’s not the sights I don’t like…


(watsyurdeal) #42

[quote=“Amerika;89247”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;89213”]Like I said in another thread, the Grandeur just needs that first shot accuracy to be better. The recoil and bloom will prevent it from being too spammy, but the first shot accuracy needs to be good enough to hit a Vasilli in the head from one end of the street to the other on Chapel.

That’s just my opinion though.[/quote]

Heh, apparently I need to do some more testing with this thing while iron sighted. If you slow this down to 0.25 speed and watch me shoot at the Nader trying to return it looks as if I should have hit the head. 14minutes, 19 seconds.

Maybe it’s not the sights I don’t like…[/quote]

No I don’t like the sights either, I mean I can use them…but it feels awkward, and not as snappy as a simple dot would be.

I mean really, CS GO has that on the damn Aug so what’s the hold up???


(TheOrangePhantome) #43

@Amerika Another good spot is on Terminal on the right side of the wall where attackers usually group up. If you smoke the enterance from the wall in that spot you’ll have to worry about people waiting at the little space on the left and there are usually only 1/2 max players there so that isnt a spot to worry about. And that smoke would cover the eneterance and ull have to worry only for one spot and you can easily defuse.


(Ferrett321) #44

[quote=“Mr.Dubstab;17918”]I’ve seen so many comments that Red-Eye needs to be fixed, along with the Grandeur weapon, but barely gets a specified topic talking about it.

So! Let’s talk about the Grandeur!!

My opinion?
It’s crap. Recoil (especially while scoping) makes you only able to shoot maybe once a second. In this second you might already be killed and finished by the enemy. Reduce the recoil and SLIGHTLY reduce the damage. I guess that should do it.
And surely this is not an excuse, but uhm… I see barely see any Redeye (pub and comp), let it be that I’ve only seen 2-3 players playing Red-Eye with a Grandeur PAST MONTH…!?[/quote]

I think It should be less powerful to not one shot lower health classes and give redeye machine pistols instead of pistols. using pistols to finish off enemies.


(SpectraBlitz) #45

[left]As someone who was hyped for the re-release of Redeye from the moment I started playing and currently mains Redeye no matter what the map (mainly because I’m so damn awful it doesn’t matter which merc I use) I was absolutely heartbroken when the devs said that there would probably be no further changes to the Grandeur SR.
While it in itself is not a bad gun per say, it is simply outclassed by similar weapons available to Redeye, namely the PDP-70. The comparison of the SR and the PDP was that the SR was a weaker, yet faster firing weapon. However the difference in fire rate (on paper) is virtually negligible, with the SR having a fire delay of 0.3s, and the PDP having a tiny increase in fire delay, sitting at 0.333s.
On paper, the PDP is simply superior in every aspect to the SR, the slightly decreased rate of fire can be more or less ignored when you consider the damage of the two guns.
The SR, while by no means having bad damage, does 40 damage a shot. The PDP has what seems to be a small increase on paper to 45 damage, but this 5 point increase is absolutely critical when you consider effective damage to health.

Lets assume that you are having a really bad day, and are unable to hit headshots consistently, so resort to bodyshotting. While this will obviously affect the damage done in a set time frame, for the sake of this comparison lets assume that all shots land and are made as bodyshots, and both weapons are firing at their maximum ROF.[/left]

Fighting a 120 health merc:
Grandeur SR 40 Damage a shot, would take 3 shots to kill.
PDP-70 45 Damage a shot, would take 3 shots to kill.
On paper, the two weapons are evenly matched, taking the same number of shots to kill.

Fighting a 90 health merc:
Grandeur SR 40 Damage a shot, would take 3 shots to kill.
PDP-70 45 Damage a shot, would take 2 shots to kill.
In this case, the PDP has a clear edge over the SR.

[left]From this, it can be seen that the Grandeur SR takes the same number of shots to kill say, a Skyhammer, as it would to kill a Proxy. This is also true when considering headshots.

The minimum damage to kill a Proxy (90HP) that could be done by the Grandeur is 120. This could be achieved by 3 bodyshots, 1 headshot and 1 bodyshot, or 2 headshots. Either way, the lowest number of shots is two.
This also holds true against a Skyhammer(120HP). Again the minimum damage to kill is 120, which is the same as Proxy.

The point of this is to show that when using the Grandeur, a Proxy with 90 health becomes as resilient as a Skyhammer with 120 health, regardless as to where the shots land.
On the other hand, the PDP would take one less shot to kill a 90 health merc through purely bodyshotting, and also one less shot with pure headshots, while a 120 health merc is given the resilience granted by a slower, higher health merc choice, taking up to three bodyshots , or one headshot plus bodyshot to kill with PDP.

This alone would be sufficient information (in my eyes alone) that the Grandeur and PDP sorely need differentiating from one another, making the SR the weapon is deserves to be as a high risk high reward battle rifle for aggressive flankers , and the PDP the weapon of choice for a sniper who wants to remain mobile, yet still hang back from the skirmish and take opportune shots to eliminate/weaken high value targets.

Personally, I would be content to increase the damage of both rifles, the SR from 40>45, and the PDP form 45>48. This change would not make the PDP in the same class as the MOA or FELIX, as it still lacks headshot gibs and punchthrough, and would not change the mercs it is able to one shot headshot (2 damage short of a instant gibbed 100 health merc), yet it retains it’s utility as a fast firing sniper.
The Grandeur on the other hand would take over the role that the PDP is used for mainly, a fast, middling damage rifle that synergises well with Redeye’s smoke and tagger, to push a breach in defense, rather than reducing an SR Redeye to an annoyance due to misplaced smoke and an assist/spotter.

Sorry for the massive wall of text but I feel rather strongly that Redeye in general needs to be made better.[/left]

(Edited with source for fire delay/damage: http://tinyurl.com/DBweaponstats )


(Szakalot) #46

@SpectraBlitz While I agree with your analysis in general there are two points you haven’t considered:

  • Grandeur is viable at mid-close range, and actually really powerful at point-blank
  • Opponents don’t always have full HP, and you can also switch to a pistol to finish a 10hp Proxy off.

(Amerika) #47

@SpectraBlitz You completely forgot about the differences between the PDP and the Grandeur in regads to CQC. The Grandeur is damn near Dreiss level good once you get used to it where the PDP is pretty much luck based if you hit while hipfiring it.

I agree that as a sit back and fire sniper weapon the PDP is better and you can be pretty aggressive with it. But since RedEye doesn’t have access to a machine pistol like Vassili does you can’t be as aggressive despite more personal HP. However, with the Grandeur, you can be aggressive with pushes. Once you start hitting shots while hipfiring it you’ll appreciate the gun more. I put in a lot more time with it recently and I still don’t like the sights on it but I do like just about everything else about the gun.


(modernBlast) #48

I agree with Spectral; to be honest the SR just seems a worse PDP. In Amerikas video the way to use it seems to be to snap aim with ADS, very similar to how you could use the PDP - only you have to aim through terrible sights. The bloom on the SR makes it unreliable as a skirmish weapon.

After just 2 shots; the bloom is about an inch on my 24 inch screen! The shot could land basically anywhere…As it stands its a worse PDP with worse damage, crappy sights, insane kick, to top it off everytime you shoot it the report sounds like a cross between a sneeze and a dog barking! It should be called the Grandeur Social Reject…


(Canucck) #49

@modernBlast Stop trying to fire it like a mousewheeling BR-16 and actually control your shots. The bloom is very manageable once you learn the proper refire times for different ranges.


(Szakalot) #50

very manageable is a little on the far side though…


(modernBlast) #51

Yes it’s notionally manageable, but what spectral was saying that the RoF of 0.3 is hardly better than the 0.33 of the PDP; in many cases “managing” means slowing the actual RoF down significantly more- thus the DPS of the SR is actually academic.


(SpectraBlitz) #52

While I am well aware of the fact that the SR is much more feasible in CQC than the PDP, my big wall of text was simply a side by side comparison of the two weapons in the same situation, simply from the available statistics and conducted in a controled environment. The point was to show that the downsides of the PDP from this point of view are negligible when you consider the benefits of using it over the Grandeur.
I know full well that the weapons perform differently in game as they do how I have laid it out, but this was a simulation of the comparison that took place under controlled, ideal conditions.


(avidCow) #53

I don’t think the Grand needs this much deep analysis. It’s clearly a terrible choice and very few people use it.


(Mr.Dubstab) #54

Based on average veiwers per day… This exact topic is on #2. Both Blishlock and Grandeur are extremely hated as for lately. This already should be the slightest sign for Dirty Bomb, to at least bother and take a look at it. This is all I am asking for: TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE GUNS! :’(

http://puu.sh/kBKNm/c1ca5cefb3.png

Look at this! We nearly reached 800 views in less then 3 weeks!? :s


(TheOrangePhantome) #55

[quote=“Mr.Dubstab;91422”]Based on average veiwers per day… This exact topic is on #2. Both Blishlock and Grandeur are extremely hated as for lately. This already should be the slightest sign for Dirty Bomb, to at least bother and take a look at it. This is all I am asking for: TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE GUNS! :’(

http://puu.sh/kBKNm/c1ca5cefb3.png

Look at this! We nearly reached 800 views in less then 3 weeks!? :s [/quote]

They should but as you know they won’t. And their view on the grandeur is utterly wrong. Some day buddy some day they may see how bad the gun’s iron sights are. Just like looking up an elephants anus.


(Amerika) #56

[quote=“modernBlast;91077”]I agree with Spectral; to be honest the SR just seems a worse PDP. In Amerikas video the way to use it seems to be to snap aim with ADS, very similar to how you could use the PDP - only you have to aim through terrible sights. The bloom on the SR makes it unreliable as a skirmish weapon.

After just 2 shots; the bloom is about an inch on my 24 inch screen! The shot could land basically anywhere…As it stands its a worse PDP with worse damage, crappy sights, insane kick, to top it off everytime you shoot it the report sounds like a cross between a sneeze and a dog barking! It should be called the Grandeur Social Reject…[/quote]

What you aren’t factoring in is that the Grandeur is viable in CQC. My video doesn’t show just how good I got at hipfiring it later on as the videos I have were my first and second games IIRC. You can’t hipfire the PDP and be sure you’ll hit quite like you can the Grandeur. So comparing the Grandeur to the PDP only in regards to long range shooting you would be correct. The PDP is definitely a better choice when scoped in but not by a lot. But the Grandeur is quite good in the closer situations that the PDP fails at outside of some lucky or point blank hits.

Also, you NEVER fire the PDP or the Grandeur at max RoF outside of a couple of situations. You always control your fire and compensate for the movement regardless of which gun you’re using. The Grandeur is a bit harder to control but I am pretty sure that’s by design due to it’s ability to be used successfuly close up.

If you look at the pros and cons of both the PDP and Grandeur you kind of a get a good picture of what the devs were going for with the Grandeur and PDP designs. They are definitely similar weapons but both are weaker in one area than the other.

I haven’t used the Grandeur since the new patch hit. The problem with the sites is they always felt off and apparently the sites were fixed in the patch. So it might be significantly better now even with a relatively minor adjustment.


(Szakalot) #57

[quote=“Amerika;92595”]

I haven’t used the Grandeur since the new patch hit. The problem with the sites is they always felt off and apparently the sites were fixed in the patch. So it might be significantly better now even with a relatively minor adjustment.[/quote]

its def better, visual recoil when ADS seems to more accurately represent where the bullets are going. but the sights themselves are so wonky, I often am not sure whether im aiming at the head or above/below


(Dawnlazy) #58

Grandeur feels better now. Still not entirely sold on it, but it feels like you can fire at top speed through ADS.


(avidCow) #59

“I haven’t used the Grandeur since the new patch hit. The problem with the sites is they always felt off and apparently the sites were fixed in the patch. So it might be significantly better now even with a relatively minor adjustment.”

Nope, it’s still terrible.


(ProfPlump) #60

Some people? Pretty much only a few use this gun, a lot (like me) don’t even use Red-Eyes and a fair amount of people that does use the PDP or Dreiss instead. This gun is plain bad imho, with horrible hipfire and abysmal recoil.[/quote]

Nobody uses the Dreiss anymore since it got nerfed