The game's fun, but where's the skill?

(Fallout) #21

This is what it ends up coming down to whenever I ask this question about a game I can’t seem to understand. “It needs better team skill”. Heh, the same reasoning is tied into Natural Selection or Planetside. If what seperates good players from the great involves surrounding yourself with good players then yes, the game has a shallow skill curve.

Ut2003 and CS require a lot of individual skill to do well, but in teamplay it also requires good teamwork. While the aspects of teamplay in those games aren’t quite as blatant (no classes or multiple objectives) it’s just as important.

Other games require a lot of skill in combat, and lots of teamwork. This game requires fairly little skill in combat, and lots of teamwork. That ends up totaling to less skill required to do well. Heck, as many of you have said all you need are a team of people who know what they’re doing and they’ll win over a team with a couple great players and some that are clueless.

Oh, and I suggest avoiding the “RTCW/ET takes more intelligence to play well”. That’s a statement that’s wrong on many levels, as pretty much every FPS requires the same level of intelligence (basically, prediction) and seems to be a line used a lot by people who can’t seem to explain the more “Standard” skills emphasized in other games.

(Phoenix-D) #22

"Heck, as many of you have said all you need are a team of people who know what they’re doing and they’ll win over a team with a couple great players and some that are clueless. "

The thing is those clueless players often shoot and move very well. They fit your definition of skill nicely.

They still lose. And ramboing like you described in your first post doesn’t work. I’ve gotten killed more times by stationary opponents firing from ambush or a prepared spot than the random running bunny hoppers.

Phoenix-D

(FstFngrz) #23

Fall out, Do you work for IGN?

(Brinkman) #24

IGN blows

(Englander) #25

Fallout u keep going on about how this game doesnt need as much skill in combat as the others u mention,the fact is thats your opinion,alot on here will simply say your wrong and thats their opinion,please dont say these things like you know for a fact your right,you are entitled to your opinion but dont try and ram it down our throats.

My opinion is this game takes alot more skill both in combat and any other level you wanna mention,no matter what you say I will always think that and thats the reason i stay away from deathmatch kaos games like Quake.

No point moaning about ET ,either play it or dont,I suggest you take ur case to the Quake or CS forums iam sure u will get alot of support for your views there.

(WolfPLayer) #26

Umm, have you read the posts of Ifurita, Dg and the others? They have all made valid points about what skills are required. Follow Dg’s advice and play on a good RTCW/ET server (most rtcw servers are good since it already has an established community with players who usually know what they’re doing) and you’ll see what separates a good player from an average player.

Besides, better teamskill does not mean surrounding yourself with good players, it means working together with those players.
From a medic’s point of view: do you follow the engineer who is going for the objective, or are you assisting the sniper that stays behind? When engaged in a firefight, do you stay back and throw medic packs, jump out and revive fallen teammates or try to take out the enemies yourself? Who needs your med packs the most? if it’s a “capture the docs” type of objective, who will take the objective, the medic who is high on health but low on ammo, or the soldier who is slow but has more firepower etc. etc.

Oh, and I suggest avoiding the “RTCW/ET takes more intelligence to play well”. That’s a statement that’s wrong on many levels, as pretty much every FPS requires the same level of intelligence (basically, prediction) and seems to be a line used a lot by people who can’t seem to explain the more “Standard” skills emphasized in other games.

Look up reviews of RTCW or ET, they are called “a thinking man’s shooterâ€? for a reason, and these words are from reviewers who have played and reviewed many fps’s. I’ve tried to get several friends to play rtcw, but they are usually overwhelmed by the complexity and skills involved.

Occasionally I play other shooters, and even if I haven’t played them for several months I can still manage to do pretty well, but if i stay away from rtcw for a week I feel like a total newbie. I may know the maps, the strategies and everything else, but it’s then that you realize there are more skills involved, skills that once obtained need to be nurtured or you’ll lose them, pretty much like sports. If you’ve never had them you probably won’t miss them and think that’s all there is, making you just an average player (not i think i’m that good btw, but having played rtcw since test 1 does pay off).

:smiley:

(senator) #27

Huh?

Why does ET requires less combat skill ???

In ET you have to aim, your gun is spraying so you have to compensate by crouching or standing still/not bunny-jumping, ET models different hit-zones were headshots do most damage, ET even models helmets that reduce headshot damage! ET has many different weapons and each requires other skills to handle the weapon well, a good SMG soldier might easily suck as a flamer or mortar or sniper.
Were is the big difference to other shooter like UT2003, CS or Q3 ???

While thinking this over I came to the conclusion that ET requires more combat skill! In Q3 there is no weapon spray as in ET, it’s a lot easier to hit someone in therse games!

(Cosmos) #28

RTCW ET does require lots of skill thats a fact… its not a game for those who like Doom 1 or Doom 2 or Duke Nukem or anything like that, it requires patience and teamwork and the knowlegde of the objectives. Games like Quake are just kill kill kill but ET is kill and skill, mainly skill. There are so many options available in the game and its fun to play I dont think any game out there requires as much skill as ET - IMHO.

(ToeD) #29

well, you know what. i suggest that you install rtcw and participate in the next badplace valhalla or ctf tourney and show us how easy it is. and yes rtcw is almost the same as rtcw et only the fire rate is down a bit

(Brinkman) #30

Fallout i feel bad that you cant understand the teamwork factors and strategies in this fun game… you are missing out…

(RivrStyx) #31

No use explaining …he won’t get it. Hes more of a FFA kinda guy. The skill curve in CS i think was getting a good aimbot.

(Fallout) #32

Dunno, but I still haven’t seen anything mentioned that was news to me. The SMG is pretty much the only gun that’s used by decent players, and it’s easy as hell to shoot. I can consistantly get kills just by running back and forth spraying, and it’s just as easy to go prone and shoot them from afar. In CS, guns were precise. You shoot two or three rounds in the upper body, and they die usually from a headshot. Here, it’s a whole lot of spraying.

As for map tactics… name one game that doesn’t require you to control the map. You can’t. Of course, here people are constantly respawning so control-wise it’s a lot more chaotic. In CS, you control and area and once you kill them off you start over. Here, each wave is just more people to kill… more people to shoot at you… and it doesn’t end.

The game might be considered “a thinking mans game” mainly since there’s so little emphasis on aim or combat skill. Some people like to think that they won because of good strategy instead of good aim or combat skill, so yeah I can see why some would believe this to require a lot of skill.

Don’t even mention how much spam or “coward” weapons this game has. Panzer is popular with people who want to avoid combat (until they can fire another rocket), and mines are also a nice way to seal off an area and avoid actually having to earn your kills. Airstrikes and support is another favorite to spam, which essentially results in one gigantic (or time-lapsing) grenade.

It’s not hard to see why these “coward” friendly type of weapons aren’t implemented in other games: it ruins the skillful nature of the game. A person can suck and easily get kills with the Panzer or mines. Unlike the AWP in Counter-Strike which also was a favorite of people without skill, a person who sucks would quickly be killed if they were using the AWP. Here, a person who sucks can just plant mines and hide the enitre time.

It’s second tier in terms of requiring skill and just a game to play for fun, there with Planetside or Natural Selection. To be a test of skill, it’d have more actions that require precision and thought, instead of spam and bunny hopping.

All games require a lot of teamwork to do well, this one just requires far less combat skill.

(FstFngrz) #33

fallout, ignorance will get you nowhere.

(Vengeance) #34

Every map on ET requires you to cnotrol certain areas failure to do so means you lose the game such as fuel dump if you dont protect the dump then u lose the game. Killing on ET which does require a lot of skill dosnt really mean much, if u come acroos a real good shotter ure going down in 2 or 3 shots to the head (making killing in CounterStrike much easier since u just shoot upperbody and also since the gun is more precise). If the defending side all think lets go and kill every1 all it takes is a couple of guys to sneak by and win the game.

U say mines are lame I tottaly disagree because they are there help control areas of the map to slow the enemy down and make it more difficult to complete there objective. Also the side approaching the mines might have a covert ops who can spot the mines which u can then blow up with ease. Also an engineer can defuse mines if he steps on 1 and can also diffuse them if his teammates step on them.

As for the onslaught of constant respawns this makes 30mins of gameplay intense and furious. Also try 1 life to live servers if u dont like unlimited lives.

The game is about teamplay. To win you need to relay on all the classes wihtin your team. Not some1 who runs about going “I can kill ppl” that attitude is reserverd for ppl who play Deathmatch games like quake and counterstrike.

Has I said earlier this game is obviously not for you.

(Fallout) #35

I guess comparing combat skill between games is pointless. RTCW/ET is a game based around teamwork, very little precision required. CS is a game base around teamwork and precision with the weapons.

This game reminds me of Planetside or Natural Selection in terms of requirement for skill in combat.

Everyone’s automatically “good” if they can use a mouse, and there really isn’t much difference as you play. A very simple combat system, which is great if you’re new to the game. Problem is, without the ability to improve to become a better “killing machine” combat becomes boring much quicker than in other games that always gives you considerable room to improve either due to predicting recoil (essential in CS, nearly insignificant in RTCW) or precise aiming (every kill requires at least a couple bullets in RTCW, so precision isn’t too important).

A deep skill curve is what promotes long-term play, and I guess that’s a reason why RTCW tends to lack in terms of popularity compared to other games that are even older than it (1600ish right now, versus 2500 for q3, 3500 for ut2003).

It’s a “fun” game, not a “competitive” game.

(HellToupee) #36

what do u mean little individual skill fallout? i see the rtcw vets taking down 3noobs at a time, hell i go 4v1 sumtimes and come out with hardly a scratch not always but 1v1 vs a non noob is challanging, 1v1 is as important as team skills in this because if the enemy team is sitting on the objective you have to kill them to get through, ive played cs at a net cafe mowed down 3guys when i ramboed round a courner while losing almost no health, its team deathmatch, theres the same mode in rtcw called LMS i dont like it much but its the same with classes. ET has more complexity than these games mainly in team work, indivdual skill is still very important, we have played highly organised teams when they lacked 1v1 skills and walked all over them, when were were a bunch of rambos. Find a server filled with claneners from rtcw u will see skill in action.

(HellToupee) #37

precision ???

if u mean aim then yes its a huge factor as head shots kill in about 3 shots, u meet a good player he will kill you before u can blink thats skill, mines are easly defeated with team work, as in a covert ops spots them that is actual team work. CS dosnt require team work its a deathmatch with teams, other than safety in numbers thats it. When u can play against good players and score a high kill to death ratio then u can say ET dosnt need skill if u cant that means u dont have the skills nesscary to do it.

(Englander) #38

Fallout u will find games like UT and Q3 have more players because they are so easy to pick up and play really quick,games like RTCW and ET take alot longer to learn,this learning curve is simply too much for alot of people who just want to go round blasting people.

IMO the long term game play in RTCW and ET is many times that of games like Q3 and UT.I only see 2 objectives in these games and that is to run and find the biggest weapon and to frag,to me that is a very dated and boring way to play,until RTCW came out I used to laugh at FPS games as i thought how could anyone just run around doing nothing but kill without getting bored.

(SCDS_reyalP) #39

ROFL. Ok, Here’s a suggestion. Go find some RTCW CAL invite / CAL main players who want to duel. I’m sure you will find a few takers on IRC if you tell them how RTCW takes no skill, and you can prawn them all. Record us a demo to show how little precision you need to go 1:1 against them. Since this game doesn’t require skill, pretty much anybody who knows how to play any kind of shooter should be able to hold their own, right ?

Good luck. :moo:

TBH, the only kind of game that doesn’t require skill are completely random ones like lotto and slot machines. Everything else just requires different skills. If you like CS better, that’s great. Enjoy CS. Same goes for q3, or RTCW or pong.

(senator) #40

Fallout, I still dont get your point why killing with a SMG in ET should require less skill than killing with a SMG in CS ?? In my opinion CS required less weapon handling skill because the modern weapons have such en enourmous ROF that the first one to start shooting usually wins, in ET with its lower ROF its far more difficult because you need to aim for a longer time either in far distance fights or in close quarter 1vs1.

Than for landmines, they are not meant for reaping easy kills, their main purpose is to disrupt the enemy, force him to take slower approaches and of course kill some of his teammates on the way to weaken the team. And planting mines requires skills, newbies will plant their mines (example fueldump) infront of the main entrance or outside the fences were they can easily be spotted by enemy CovOps, good Engs will plant their mines at many different hot-spots. Yesterday I made the enemy CovOps litturally running around with their Binos glued to their eyes, of course, if they are scanning for mines it’s a lot harder for them to see me in an ambush position waiting for them :wink: