The era of good FPS titles has long since passed and is not returning

(sereNADE) #101

i would be happier if brink actually was a smashing success through critical review, sales, and player satisfaction on at least ONE of the platforms. seems like it’s been falling just short on all 3 platforms only to have that exaggerated in the threads. for the pc anyway, so much of the gripes would disappear overnight if we simply had user interface customization! that alone would have convinced many of us of brink’s sophistication!

(Bloodbite) #102

I know but I’m just saying, today’s generation of gamers are largely made up of whiners so it would end up causing more problems than good.

Gamers in the 2000’s are, by and large, self obsessed morons.

(Bloodbite) #103

[QUOTE=pinksocking;321354]Are you sure? Can you cite your source?

iirc I heard the game was built on the PC then outsourced to be designed on the consoles.[/QUOTE]

the version that had the least bugs on release was the PC version, so that should say something to everyone that keeps screaming that its a port (design decisions maybe abit, but coding wise it’s not a port)… personally I didn’t have any issues at all until after the 2nd patch, and even then, only minor lag types of issues.

I may be one of the lucky few but this is the first game in a very long time that has worked out of the box without any crashes/etc for me. Though I do keep my system clean and up to date with ‘stable’ drivers, and that does tend to be the source of alot of people’s problems with this game.

oh and ATI… ATI users are being shafted in most games. This isn’t anything new… I got it running okay on my ATI card, but took this as motivation to finally upgrade back to nVidia, and it runs beautifully now.

(Ark_peasant) #104

Back in 1999-2005, we had some great games, right ?

Worldwide video game market (in dollars)(approximately, of course) :

1999 : 20 billions

2005 : 29 billions

…

2010 : between 50 and 60 billions :smiley:

Do you really think good games can still exist like during the 99-05 period ? All that money is attracting the most greedy investors/producers/developers like bees to honey. MONEY… WANT… MOAR… :oppressor:

  • Even Gabe Newell has an addiction to the feelings he has when handing over bonuses and organizing the company-trip for the Valve’s employees.
    When he makes decisions regarding questions like “DLCs ? Free ?”, “Item-shop ?”, “Sequel ?”, “Games length ?”, “Type of gameplay ?”, or “Pricing policy for the Europeans ?” (lol EA), he thinks (at least unconsciously) about all these good feelings he has when giving money to its employees, and it’s influencing his judgment (because he’s human).

A game needs to sell first, then, it can have the luxury of being “good”.

Even if some good games (according to your expectations) are released on the market, the audience changed so much it will NOT be successful, so the playerbase will NOT be like the 99-05 ones, and the game will rapidly fall into oblivion.

…

Same with the custom maps, why map editors are no longer mandatory : producers need / want to sell map-pack (“DLCs”) and sequels, they can’t give out the map editor like that.

…

Same with mods, why you no longer see SDK : massively-popular modding no longer exist. It’s only a portfolio for students.

  • hundreds of indies are diluting the “niche” audiences,

  • game life expectancy shortened radically (aka “sequel every year”), for tons of reasons, like the risk of losing an opportunity to generate revenues on a short-term schedule, or the risk of losing your playerbase waiting for the sequels over another game made by a competitor.

  • modders can’t fight the enormous marketing budget of big titles. Marketing power is way stronger than the word of mouth.

  • Pepsi vs Coca Cola : people prefer the taste of Pepsi, but will choose the Coca Cola can for its iconic popularity.
    People will prefer the game Y if someone “force” them to play it, but most of them will buy and play the game Z instead, simply because it’s more iconic/popular.

  • the social power of the most “popular” games skyrocketed : tons of people bought bad/average (according to them) games because their “non-gamer” friends were also playing it. This is why the producers greenlighted all the social and co-op features in recent games, it’s really boosting sales.

The socially-based fun (“hey Joe, you remember when we rushed the enemy position with only our melee weapons and killed all of them ? so f- awesome he he !”) easily compensates the game’s poor quality.

…

During the 99-05 period, you had to convince each gamer individually. Surgical strikes.

Today, 2011, you need to convince the entire potential player-base (even the indies have to “satisfy” their entire niche) to trigger the 6-months/12-months “success”. So, carpet bombing.

This is why Splash Damage -HAD- to make the console versions and add “casual players” features, they’re obeying, it would take gigantic balls to swim against the entire industry current.

Should we blame SD for trying to dance on the razor’s edge of multiplayer gaming, instead of completely giving up ? :rolleyes:

…

Do you really think there’s a superhero out there, who can tell - the investors “no problem, I’ll handle it, cash will flow, I guarantee it” :cool:

  • the developers “don’t worry, you’ll get paid and will keep your jobs” :cool:
  • the gamers “trust me, believe me when I say I’ll do a good game” :cool:
    and convince all of them ?
    and actually make that good game ?
(DeeTwo) #105

I was looking for the quote about how a SD dev suggested implementing a pure CTF mode would be a step backwards when I came across a thread on these boards asking for CTF/TDM etc. The dude was greeted with howls of various abuse with a few people suggesting that he wanted to turn Brink into CoD mixed in with a few others who were suggesting Brink is far more of a complicated game to be dragged down to the lesser levels of CTF.

This is why we can’t have nice things. Because the average gamer today is a moron. A moron that will buy hats and reskinned weapons - and there is OH so much money to be made from them. Although I am amazed/happy a lot of servers have enabled FF for Brink, so maybe there is some hope and its name will be BrinkCTF and I can be bad at it all over again <3.

On and off while I was typing this I watched


and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N50_hVRSt38

Cos ya know, comfort vids from a simpler time.

A side point - BC2 uses the genius of having one key to do most functions as well. It was great fun trying to disarm an mcom only to pick up a kit, or in brinks case, buff someone and use a comm station and accidently change class. BC2 was a console port, um not saying Brink is a port… just that it has everything wrong with it that screams consoled (going by BC2s awesome example).

(Bakercompany) #106

[QUOTE=Luddens Desir;321273]Lol.

I enjoy playing Modern Warfare 2, and would even get a 360 solely for that game, but this is completely not true..

Skip to 4:30ish and explain to me how this takes an equal amount of skill as something like MW2 or Halo.[/QUOTE]

Man please, I was doing that sh** back on PS2.

And bouncing around clicking on peoples heads isn’t that hard. I remember doing that to scrubs back when Wizards of the Coasts still had stores with LAN setup.

Its two totally different types of games. FPS yes, but pure hipfire and pure ADS aren’t similar.

(xartion) #107

It’s been far too long since I’ve watched GQ3. They don’t make em like that anymore :frowning:

(Alyss) #108

The Battlefield franchise continues to push the envelope and make great shooters.

(St NickelStew) #109

Ditto.

Plus, I think Brink is a great and fun game.

(SphereCow) #110

[QUOTE=Bakercompany;321567]Man please, I was doing that sh** back on PS2.

And bouncing around clicking on peoples heads isn’t that hard. I remember doing that to scrubs back when Wizards of the Coasts still had stores with LAN setup.

Its two totally different types of games. FPS yes, but pure hipfire and pure ADS aren’t similar.[/QUOTE]

You played CPMA on a PS2, with a controller. I believe you.

(jegis) #111

lmao not for the last 6 years it hasn’t

(kiunk) #112

I fear the OP is correct.

Before the 3rd gen consoles arrived on the market. The PC format pushed the boundaries of game quality and the developers were all on board because the player numbers were high.

Now unfortunately, although the format still has the ability to push the quality of gaming ever upwards, quite simply the player numbers on gen3 consoles massively outweigh those of PC gamers.
So developers concentrate more of their efforts on the ‘easier money’.
Pretty simple logic really, Why invest considerably more time, effort and money in producing a much higher quality product, when u are going to glean less reward?.

Maybe the PC gaming genre should try to learn from the consoles successes. i.e. by simplifying the hardware required to encourage more gamers to use PC over console.
Otherwise i can only forsee less development of the high-end PC games as years go by.:frowning:

(jazevec) #113

And don’t expect indie developers to save you. They’re too busy making “casual” games, tower defence, platformers, and 2D physics games. 90% of indie innovation is art direction. Try to find a turn-based strategy.

(pcgamer) #114

[QUOTE=Ark_peasant;321470]Back in 1999-2005, we had some great games, right ?

Worldwide video game market (in dollars)(approximately, of course) :

1999 : 20 billions

2005 : 29 billions

…

2010 : between 50 and 60 billions :smiley:

Do you really think good games can still exist like during the 99-05 period ? All that money is attracting the most greedy investors/producers/developers like bees to honey. MONEY… WANT… MOAR… :oppressor:

  • Even Gabe Newell has an addiction to the feelings he has when handing over bonuses and organizing the company-trip for the Valve’s employees.
    When he makes decisions regarding questions like “DLCs ? Free ?”, “Item-shop ?”, “Sequel ?”, “Games length ?”, “Type of gameplay ?”, or “Pricing policy for the Europeans ?” (lol EA), he thinks (at least unconsciously) about all these good feelings he has when giving money to its employees, and it’s influencing his judgment (because he’s human).

A game needs to sell first, then, it can have the luxury of being “good”.

Even if some good games (according to your expectations) are released on the market, the audience changed so much it will NOT be successful, so the playerbase will NOT be like the 99-05 ones, and the game will rapidly fall into oblivion.

…

Same with the custom maps, why map editors are no longer mandatory : producers need / want to sell map-pack (“DLCs”) and sequels, they can’t give out the map editor like that.

…

Same with mods, why you no longer see SDK : massively-popular modding no longer exist. It’s only a portfolio for students.

  • hundreds of indies are diluting the “niche” audiences,

  • game life expectancy shortened radically (aka “sequel every year”), for tons of reasons, like the risk of losing an opportunity to generate revenues on a short-term schedule, or the risk of losing your playerbase waiting for the sequels over another game made by a competitor.

  • modders can’t fight the enormous marketing budget of big titles. Marketing power is way stronger than the word of mouth.

  • Pepsi vs Coca Cola : people prefer the taste of Pepsi, but will choose the Coca Cola can for its iconic popularity.
    People will prefer the game Y if someone “force” them to play it, but most of them will buy and play the game Z instead, simply because it’s more iconic/popular.

  • the social power of the most “popular” games skyrocketed : tons of people bought bad/average (according to them) games because their “non-gamer” friends were also playing it. This is why the producers greenlighted all the social and co-op features in recent games, it’s really boosting sales.

The socially-based fun (“hey Joe, you remember when we rushed the enemy position with only our melee weapons and killed all of them ? so f- awesome he he !”) easily compensates the game’s poor quality.

…

During the 99-05 period, you had to convince each gamer individually. Surgical strikes.

Today, 2011, you need to convince the entire potential player-base (even the indies have to “satisfy” their entire niche) to trigger the 6-months/12-months “success”. So, carpet bombing.

This is why Splash Damage -HAD- to make the console versions and add “casual players” features, they’re obeying, it would take gigantic balls to swim against the entire industry current.

Should we blame SD for trying to dance on the razor’s edge of multiplayer gaming, instead of completely giving up ? :rolleyes:

…

Do you really think there’s a superhero out there, who can tell - the investors “no problem, I’ll handle it, cash will flow, I guarantee it” :cool:

  • the developers “don’t worry, you’ll get paid and will keep your jobs” :cool:
  • the gamers “trust me, believe me when I say I’ll do a good game” :cool:
    and convince all of them ?
    and actually make that good game ?[/QUOTE]

Wait for red orchestra 2, its PC only and will offer SDK from day 1

(crazyfoolish) #115

In my opinion Brink tried to sell itsself to two audiences;

-The Hardcore PC crowd from their previous and similar games

  • The mainstream audience. (COD, etc)

The problem with this is that the two audiences demand different things. The mainstream audience like things to be nice and similar to COD whereas the mainstream audience wants the gameplay to be more like the ET games.

What we ended up with was a bit of a compromise for example buffs that encourage teamplay…all used with f.

I still love brink though and have hope for it as i am in between these two groups.
</sweeping statements and generalisations>

Surely a developer could make a profit by marketing an fps as developed for the PC first and made for PC gamers.

(NRGIZER36) #116

Totally agree with crazy foolish ive so felt the need to defend this game like no other before !!! it was to me not the big letdown everyone was saying it was , FPS need to stop coming out every 3 months yes when CODMW2 came out i was so addicted for a year with all those bells and whistle’s and the stats flashing on the screen!!! so with that Brink falls so flat for that kind o crowd. while playing Gears3 Beta you could tell people were going for kills and not objectives kills = unlocks why support your team when your rewards are for kills Splash Damage spoke openly on why certain things in the game were done for a reason i guess people didnt read up enough on it the people i tell and warn you might not like this game have told me after buying it they love it !!! my lag has stopped (knock on wood) the more i play the better ive got at moving around the learning curve for moving around in Brink is much harder . i also stick with the game cos its envrionments are great so many places to climb squeeze through and it makes me talk to people now that ive somewhat figured out the fireteam thing tiny flaws aside i feel i get what they were trying to do and with that i love this game trying to be a medic when its such a stressful deal hands up to all the medics as in BFBC2 im the engineer !!! campaigns need to be on a seperate disc and not just tacked onto games Seperate the 2 this is the best 6/10 game i ever bought have fun all!!!

(Apples) #117

If you try tu run after two rabbits at the same time, you usually lose both…

(jazevec) #118

[QUOTE=crazyfoolish;322770]In my opinion Brink tried to sell itsself to two audiences;

-The Hardcore PC crowd from their previous and similar games

[/quote]

Could you explain how exactly Brand Damage tried to wow PC gamers before release ? No keyboard/mouse gameplay videos ? Making previewers use controllers all the time (ideally they would offer a choice)?

(DeeTwo) #119

I presumed they were being sarcy. BC2 was so infuriating its hard to believe it existed. Yet it could also be so fun it had to be played… which added to the annoyance. It was basically like meth.

I think everyone just presumed given SD’s roots they wouldn’t **** it up and everything would come right in the end - and it might do yet as its hearts in the right place.

Although I doubt they’re gonna fix the F does everything “bug”.

(dazman76) #120

Using a controller, or a mouse and keyboard? Such movement isn’t technically possible using analogue sticks, with any amount of acceleration or smoothing. Just to clarify - it isn’t technically possible. A mouse is an analogue controller whose centre point can be reset at any time by lifting or “flicking” the mouse, which results in human-controlled on-the-fly sensitivity changes and 180 degree turns with pretty high precision (given a skilled player that is). There is no such capability with any other analogue controller - stick or otherwise, skilled player or otherwise. Anyone who claims to the contrary, doesn’t understand the specifics of how analogue controllers work.

If you try just that little bit harder, you’ll 100% conform to the PC elitists view of your average console gamer - therefore perpetuating the very situation that annoys console gamers. First you seem to claim competitive Q3 CPMA proficiency on a console, and now you’re equating FPS gaming to “bouncing around and clicking on people’s heads”? :slight_smile: This is a bit like that one mate who’s happy to claim all kinds of bizarre things down at the pub, resulting in the group not believing a word he says. You could be a very skilled FPS player for all I know, but your words tell me otherwise.

I’m quite happy with my “average” FPS skill, and I certainly wouldn’t make the kind of claims you seem to be making. I’m also a programmer with games-related coding knowledge, but that’s irrelevant - common sense is all that’s required to see the truth behind this “debate”, especially the two points you’ve commented on above :slight_smile:

EDIT: Nice Steam thread, a refreshing change :slight_smile: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1904500