The decision to nerf movement and jumping while in combat in the last patch is really dissapointing.

(Jostabeere) #41

If you’re a good shooter, you can reliably kill people while staying on the ground and don’t need to panichop around.

(SnakekillerX) #42

It depends on your build of course. If I’m a proxy vs rhino assuming both people should just be able to just rely on aiming skill alone, that rhino will always win.

Or, I could try and close the gap, by long jumping/wall jumping and shooting at him in mid air to injure him while hopefully dodging his shots, then when I’ve finally closed the gap I can hope for kill shot with my shotgun.

Not everyone who jumps is a bunny hopper that simply jumps for no reason. I usually try and find a wall in order to keep mobile land and shot and position myself for an escape if needed.

This change seems to have come into place because people seem to think that everyone who jumps, simply jumps up and down and side to side randomly in hopes of a desperation kill, rather than a planned and deliberate tactic to quickly close the gap between medium range to close range for a shotgun blast.

(Jostabeere) #43

Or, you could try to leave the Rhino alone.

(Feley) #44

Also fighting on ground for low hp mercs is also an adventage as they can strafe faster, and adding jumping to it, it is even bigger diffecence in adventage…

Of course you trade trade speed for hp and other way around, but neither of lower hp mercs are combat mercs, and they shouldn’t have adventage in killing as well as in repairing/healing stuff…

Proxy should be able to match with Skyhammer, and she can do it with fast strafing… But she shouldn’t be able to match Rhino/Fragger/Thunder, as those guys are ones that kill (Nader too, be she can be matchable if she misses nades)… Proxy is meant to be repairing, not killing… Aura for healing/reviving, not killing, Sparks as well…

(Szakalot) #45

[quote=“SnakekillerX;144251”]It depends on your build of course. If I’m a proxy vs rhino assuming both people should just be able to just rely on aiming skill alone, that rhino will always win.

Or, I could try and close the gap, by long jumping/wall jumping and shooting at him in mid air to injure him while hopefully dodging his shots, then when I’ve finally closed the gap I can hope for kill shot with my shotgun.

Not everyone who jumps is a bunny hopper that simply jumps for no reason. I usually try and find a wall in order to keep mobile land and shot and position myself for an escape if needed.

This change seems to have come into place because people seem to think that everyone who jumps, simply jumps up and down and side to side randomly in hopes of a desperation kill, rather than a planned and deliberate tactic to quickly close the gap between medium range to close range for a shotgun blast.[/quote]

i think you only played against terrible rhinos. You want to get CLOSER to the rhino with jumps? Jumping is the worst thing you can do against a rhino as you expose your entire hitbox to the minigun. Its a lot more effective to gain distance, take cover or peak shot them to death.

(Mrarauzz) #46

Yes because peak shooting them with a shotgun is very effective. Sometimes when you have a shotgun loadout you need to use the jumps to your advantage, and even if I don’t have a shotgun I would still use my jumps if I could hear that they aren’t spinning up. The time it takes for them to spin up I should have already been hitting them and making myself a harder target while I abuse the rhinos slow movement speed.

(SnakekillerX) #47

The way some people are describing things its like if there is a rhino and you are a proxy, then don’t even try. Well, what if I need to plant the bomb and there is a rhino guarding it? What if my team is dead and its my only opening. I figure it would still be better to try than not to.

I also don’t feel like I should have to 100% rely on my team to take out 1 player, regardless of the merc.

(Szakalot) #48

sorry mate not buying it, people that jump against my rhino are by far the easiest to mow down. but frankly any merc cannot outgun 300 body DPS at close range anyways

(Jostabeere) #49

[quote=“SnakekillerX;144264”]The way some people are describing things its like if there is a rhino and you are a proxy, then don’t even try. Well, what if I need to plant the bomb and there is a rhino guarding it? What if my team is dead and its my only opening. I figure it would still be better to try than not to.

I also don’t feel like I should have to 100% rely on my team to take out 1 player, regardless of the merc.[/quote]

And you’re describing it like you can’t face a Rhino at all but only with jumping off of walls.

(SnakekillerX) #50

Its not like I said I can take out any player with this strategy, clearly not everyone plays the same way, but would you rather face a shotgun proxy at mid range, or close range?

No, this was an example. You are stating that if the enemy has a rhino then you should just ignore that rhino, which you can’t always do.

(Amerika) #51

Go play and jump off of walls up around and over people. You still hit and hit often. The only thing that was really nerfed were people jumping up and down in every fight regardless of where they were. Mashing jump while going full auto or clicking a shotgun as fast as possible while in the middle of the street was never a good idea if you wanted consistent kills pre-patch and it’s a worse idea now.

This thread really has nothing to do with mobility. You can still use skillful wall jumps in combat effectively as mobility didn’t change and your shots hitting really didn’t change when you were close. I’ve done it a many times exactly as I’ve always done since the patch and met with the same success.

So we aren’t talking about mobility at all but instead we are talking about survivability. People lean on jumping constantly while firing because it makes it harder for players who have bad tracking to hit them and it makes their head a bit harder to consistently hit if you are good at tracking. A good player would still win most of the exchanges by virtua of not leaning on RNG to hit but the fight might get extended long enough for the other guy to get lucky eventually or one of their teammates to show up. People who jumped a lot are now dying to players they used to beat who had bad tracking because their shots are not hitting as often due to the spread increase. And that has you upset.

So let’s call this what it is. It’s people upset that their survivability went down and not that their mobility went down. Because you aren’t being “mobile” when you are in the middle of the street hopping and firing. You are doing it because you live longer in more common pub situations in DB.

With this said I would be totally fine if the change was reverted as I didn’t have much of an issue with things. And now I do have an issue with the bolt-action rifles getting RNG added where there was previously none which makes Vassili and his entire playstyle with bolt-actions dead.

(ASTOUNDINGSHELL) #52

@Feley GIVE THIS CHAP MEDAL!

(SnakekillerX) #53

Go play and jump off of walls up around and over people. You still hit and hit often. The only thing that was really nerfed were people jumping up and down in every fight regardless of where they were. Mashing jump while going full auto or clicking a shotgun as fast as possible while in the middle of the street was never a good idea if you wanted consistent kills pre-patch and it’s a worse idea now.

This thread really has nothing to do with mobility. You can still use skillful wall jumps in combat effectively as mobility didn’t change and your shots hitting really didn’t change when you were close. I’ve done it a many times exactly as I’ve always done since the patch and met with the same success.

So we aren’t talking about mobility at all but instead we are talking about survivability. People lean on jumping constantly while firing because it makes it harder for players who have bad tracking to hit them and it makes their head a bit harder to consistently hit if you are good at tracking. A good player would still win most of the exchanges by virtua of not leaning on RNG to hit but the fight might get extended long enough for the other guy to get lucky eventually or one of their teammates to show up. People who jumped a lot are now dying to players they used to beat who had bad tracking because their shots are not hitting as often due to the spread increase. And that has you upset.

So let’s call this what it is. It’s people upset that their survivability went down and not that their mobility went down. Because you aren’t being “mobile” when you are in the middle of the street hopping and firing. You are doing it because you live longer in more common pub situations in DB.

With this said I would be totally fine if the change was reverted as I didn’t have much of an issue with things. And now I do have an issue with the bolt-action rifles getting RNG added where there was previously none which makes Vassili and his entire playstyle with bolt-actions dead.[/spoiler][/quote]

I guess the thing I don’t understand is why everyone assuming its always in a wide open area in the middle of the street. This is not what I do.

(Amerika) #54

[quote=“SnakekillerX;144274”]I guess the thing I don’t understand is why everyone assuming its always in a wide open area in the middle of the street. This is not what I do.
[/quote]

I’m not assuming. I am basing it off my own gameplay results. Jumping near people off of walls and causing confusion and shooting down into them still works just fine. I’ve done it a ton of times myself. If you are doing it further out then you’re being penalized a lot more heavily because the increased spread will affect you more.

So I am not assuming at all. I know exactly the situations where people are being affected the most and am basing my responses off of that. The people who hop constantly while in fights at anything but close range are now less likely to win out than they were before despite those fights still being super random. You still survive as long as you did because mobility wasn’t touched but your ability to do actual damage has been decreased if that’s the type of playstyle you leaned on. Worse players will have a better chance against that style and better players will take less damage while killing a person playing that way now.

(NexDroid) #55

Ok, I give up. Why the hell are everyone talking about super short range, when enemy is all across your screen? Even counterattack against vaselines is kind of impossible, because you cant wj with, lets say skyhammer, and shot with super duper accurate M4 to his head. Only way to kill vaseline now is other vaseline or hoping for his mistakes to kill him. Ive used to jump alot, doing walljumps, strafe jumps, and sometimes bunnyhoping. I dont know what is wrong with it. Good player can always land a hit, even when is proxy jumping like mad. I think, that SD just fixes things that arent broken. And this is not the first “fix”. Same thing happened with phantom, stoker, shotguns…

(CCP115) #56

Snipers need to be reverted, it’s impossibe to jump shoot now which is a surprisingly common requirement.

Also I’d like to point out that technically, that is not bunny hopping. And in Quake, bunny hopping was used as a common method of MOVEMENT, and not very commonly in fights. And bunny hopping doesn’t exist in Unreal Tournament, you sorta just dodge around the place.

You wanna wall jump? Still there. Wanna dodge by jumping? Still can. Wanna be a douchebag who uses shotguns and jumps around crazily? Nope, not as effective, thankfully.

(Maddpadd) #57

[quote=“SnakekillerX;144237”]People who like shooting while in the air hate the change.
People who don’t like shooting while in the air love the change.

The end.[/quote]

I rarely jump shoot but I’m not to keen on the jump shoot nurf that has happened.
I only really did jump shots with vasiline or when falling back on use of my pistols with all mercs cos I have got into a bind such as my main weapon needs reloaded I’m low on health but I need to finish of enemy shooting at me so I would often jump & pistol.
Would often jump shot with pistol to shoot mines at top of stairs.

What I really don’t like about this nerf is that the main problem was fast moving mercs with hitboxes the size of matches Bhoppin with op shotguns (which I didn’t even mind to much)
In a bid to nerf them they have affected other mercs.
It’s just like the katana nerf that nerfed all other melees.
It either lazy coding or certain aspects are so hard coded that they can’t change them on a individual basis.

(Snack Toxin) #58

Bronies need nerfing to oblivion, in my opinion.

(tominatorx) #59

I mean I get the frustration of some people here. But honestly I think that this was a reasonable idea from SD.

I played a few hours yesterday and when I was playing as Proxy, I didn’t really notice a big difference in my scores. Now I’m more of a strafing guy than I am a jumping in circles around the enemy kind of guy.

That being said I still got one shot killed by Aura’s and Proxies who were jumping in CQC so… I don’t know if these were just lucky shots from them then.

Bare in mind that I can only speak about my personal experiences. When i’m playing Proxy, I don’t jump around and fire at the same time. I usually try to outmanoeuvre them and then try to shoot them. for instance I jump over another merc and as soon as I land I fill them with lots of holes. :slight_smile:

What I did yesterday vs a Rhino was this: He had to rev his minigun I dropped a mine in front of him then walljumped over his head, he tried to turn around, I shot the mine I had dropped near him and finally killed him with the rest of my shotgun shells. And you don’t even need the mine because later on I faced him again, I basically did the exact same thing + strafing around him and still won. So it’s definitely not impossible to kill a Rhino player with Proxy. Granted you have to work more methodical now but isn’t that normal? First try to outmanoeuvre him then strafe around him while shooting and if need be jump over him again and do it a second time.

I agree it’s not as easy to kill heavier mercs now. But the way I see it is that the advantage of fast mercs is that they can avoid fights, you can outrun the heavier mercs if you don’t think you can win a certain fight. + jumping away from grenades is still possible. You still have that advantage as a light merc. Avoiding damage is still the same.

And yes the heavier mercs are harder to win from now. But this isn’t only about light vs heavy. Sawbonez is my main merc. I can’t avoid grenades as easily as the light class and I don’t have as much health as Fragger or Rhino to just take the damage if there is no other option.

Now imagine me playing vs an Aura player in CQC what is going to happen? The Aura player will probably jump like a loonatic (which was understandable because they could easily use that to their advantage) and start firing with her shotgun at me. I have a SMG. Now using a SMG means a lot of the time that you have to hit multiple times (about 7 or 8 I think if they are just body shots which will be most likely vs a fast moving merc) a faster moving target that is jumping around and can basically one shot you with a shotgun.

So the medium classes (at least that’s how I feel) were suffering the most from the jumping around and firing at the same time tactics that the lighter mercs did. Because they don’t have as much time to react as a merc who has more health like for instance Fragger who can take a shot from a shotgun and still has a chance to win a fight.

Sorry for this long post. And this is completely my opinion, I know a lot of people won’t agree with it but I just wanted to give my opinion about the update. :slight_smile:

(watsyurdeal) #60

So you’re saying, a long range merc is good at long range?

Just trying to point that out, you should never fight certain mercs in their area of expertise.

Like don’t fight a Fragger at medium range, or don’t fight Rhino up close, or don’t fight Fletcher in closed areas.