The decision to nerf movement and jumping while in combat in the last patch is really dissapointing.

(Jostabeere) #21

@CirclesofJerk Don’t you find it ironic that you speak about lowering the skill even though we are speaking about a mechanic that hardly requires skill from you, but insane skill from your opponent. That’t doesn’t really define “Skill” imo.

(CirclesofJerk) #22

[quote=“Jostabeere;144059”]@CirclesofJerk Don’t you find it ironic that you speak about lowering the skill even though we are speaking about a mechanic that hardly requires skill from you, but insane skill from your opponent. That’t doesn’t really define “Skill” imo.
[/quote]

How does putting your crosshair on a player moving somewhat vertically take insane skill? The jumps are already nerfed in movement speed when you string more than three in a row. There’s also the immense downside of keeping your momentum on bunnyhopping instead of being able to quickly shift direction like when strafing, making you a lot more predictable in that sense. What’s the purpose of nerfing it even more?

(Jostabeere) #23

[quote=“CirclesofJerk;144061”][quote=“Jostabeere;144059”]@CirclesofJerk Don’t you find it ironic that you speak about lowering the skill even though we are speaking about a mechanic that hardly requires skill from you, but insane skill from your opponent. That’t doesn’t really define “Skill” imo.
[/quote]

How does putting your crosshair on a player moving somewhat vertically take insane skill? The jumps are already nerfed in movement speed when you string more than three in a row. There’s also the immense downside of keeping your momentum on bunnyhopping instead of being able to quickly shift direction like when strafing, making you a lot more predictable in that sense. What’s the purpose of nerfing it even more?[/quote]

How does jumping and moving your crosshair somewhat on a not jumping enemy take insane skill? :neutral:

(CirclesofJerk) #24

[quote=“Jostabeere;144065”]How does jumping and moving your crosshair somewhat on a not jumping enemy take insane skill? :neutral:
[/quote]
That’s my point, it takes a relatively equal amount of skill on both ends due to the limitations of multiple jumps. Further nerfs ruin that balance, making the strategy of jumping in combat useless instead of an alternative combat option.

(watsyurdeal) #25

[quote=“CirclesofJerk;144067”][quote=“Jostabeere;144065”]How does jumping and moving your crosshair somewhat on a not jumping enemy take insane skill? :neutral:
[/quote]
That’s my point, it takes a relatively equal amount of skill on both ends due to the limitations of multiple jumps. Further nerfs ruin that balance, making the strategy of jumping in combat useless instead of an alternative combat option.
[/quote]

Spamming jump is not skill, and the reason they nerfed it was because it was too effective as it was. It was not penalizing enough for consistent jumping, so they changed it, forcing players to win in actual fights of aim instead of of getting lucky to spread.

I haven’t had this change effect me in the slightest, and all the players who bunny hop around me now are properly missing shots when they try to pull that crap on me.

(ImSploosh) #26

The main issue is with jumping while sniping being nerfed.

There was absolutely no reason to hinder sniper rifles/Vassili further with this nerf. He should be left alone, or given a 2nd ability, but any sort of nerf is not needed. I can see the shotgun/jump spam being nerfed, and though I dislike it, I’m fine with it. I’m just not fine with Vassili’s nerf, as tons of other people aren’t either.

(Amerika) #27

[quote=“CirclesofJerk;144067”][quote=“Jostabeere;144065”]How does jumping and moving your crosshair somewhat on a not jumping enemy take insane skill? :neutral:
[/quote]
That’s my point, it takes a relatively equal amount of skill on both ends due to the limitations of multiple jumps. Further nerfs ruin that balance, making the strategy of jumping in combat useless instead of an alternative combat option.
[/quote]

Jumping in combat is still useful. You just can’t start firing at mid-range and jumping at the same time to try to throw off headshots/hits and pray for your shots to land. Pressing one button while you fire isn’t what I would call skill. And the game already penalized people who did that and now it penalizes them more. So it’s not like a lot changed and it’s not like there wasn’t precedence for the change.

If you were using verticality by going over people to confuse them in CQC, fire down into them and trying to make them miss then the game has barely changed for you. But if you were the type that couldn’t fire without hitting jump non-stop and simply hoping that you hit some lucky shots while also not taking headshots, well, you’re now getting more of a penalty.

Long jumping off a wall a couple of times to go over/around people and confuse them and make them miss and evade while maybe getting some shots into them as you do it is part of the skill meta and is still valid and barely changed. But, again, if you were the type who couldn’t fire without jumping straight up even while nowhere near a wall then you took a bit of a nerf in your accuracy which makes it a bit less likely for you to get lucky.

(Szakalot) #28

[quote=“CirclesofJerk;144055”][quote=“Kay-Dubz;144036”]ITT: Some folks who relied on jumping rather than superior aim to get kills.

ITT: Someone who never learned that SD always pushed for “less movement = enhanced precision.”

The game as always rewarded crouch and strafe-shooting over jump-shooting. Youre able to kill people very easily when crouched, compared to jumping. And I dont think players should be rewarded for bouncing around defensively.

If you want to jump to avoid getting shot, then deal with the accuracy penalty. You shouldnt be very accurate while also pretty mobile. Thats called balance. Why else do you think more health = less speed? Same thing, balance. Why do you think weak mercs get speed and hand cannons(shotguns)? Balance.

Why should players be allowed to be fast, agile, and also have good accuracy in the air? I most certainly believe you deserve a spread penalty if youre jumping defensively and randomly in a firefight. Thats how most people do it.

The few skilled people I see regularly use jumping in a truly skilled way, are player over level 20 who use it to close the gap on their enemy, land, and then shoot them. Or they do a few wall jumps when wounded to get away.

But the vast majority of players simply hop hop hop when in any firefight.[/quote]

The game never really rewarded crouch shooting much compared to strafe shooting. [/quote]

yeah it does, spread is a lot better when crouching and is usually the preferable way to open up on an enemy that doesn’t see you yet.

And again: just because something is ‘more skillful’ doesn’t mean its preferable. We can all go into noclip-instagib mode where everyone moves/flies at 3 times Aura speed, with only the headshot hitbox. Surely that would be better for you? Its def. more skillful than what we have now, right?

Viability of Jumping mid fight is a skill tradeoff. It puts more emphasis on tracking aim and less on flanking/positioning. DB wants to have a little bit of both. It doesn’t reward camping corners the way CS does, but nor does it reward for a free-for-all Q3 TDM style.

Adding more RNG does not mean = less skillful.
Take Hearthstone for example: huge amounts of RNG in that game, and yet the best players stay best, because of how you handle the probabilities.

In DB this translates to ‘can I afford to gain advantage with my jump-dodge, while sacrificing some accuracy’? As Amerika pointed out, this seems like a good choice at close distance where a bit of weapon spread does little to your DPS. But if you want a game where everyone only ever hops all the time, at any distance, well; I suggest one of the quake games.

(NexDroid) #29

I really hate this update. They nerfed dmg of revivr, what is absolutelly non sense, because sparks was only counter to vaselines. But now, she is just medic with lowest hp, weakest med packs and no dmg at all, because her smgs are the weakest weapons in game. There is no point to bring sparks to game, when you can pick phoenix and do same job, even better because you can shoot your way to fallen ally. This jump nerf, which is, by some people called as good choice, killed game for me the most. Proxy with shotguns is another UP merc. My playstyle was to do walljump and land few steps next to enemy and one, two shots to kill him. Now? If enemy sees you while you are in air, you are dead. Becuase you cant shoot and kill him first, you will probably die faster than you will land and have even a chance to shoot. There is now no chance to kill rhino with proxy at coridors, such as terminal´s pump room. All I want is, to reduce (or completely remove) spread while in air. Now its just about RNG if you land hit or not. Another thing i hugely dislike is shotgun revamp. Shotguns are useless now. With hollunds you have to be 1.4m from your enemy to deal full dmg. It literally means to stick your barrel to his a*s, what you cant do, because jump nerf. DB was not only about your shooting skills, it used to be about movement. Now is all jump useless and kind of non needed stuff. What about removing jumps entirelly? When you cant jump and shoot at same time, why should there even be jumps? Some people want to remove jump nerf of vaselines only, but it would be huge disadvantage against other mercs.

TL; DR:

REMOVE SPREAD WHEN IN AIR

(Feley) #30

First thing I would like to say is that Sparks should be played as medic, not as a sniper… Why the heck would anyone call a class a medic if it purpose is to snipe?

Well, cause it is not…

Second thing. Vassili can be outsniped by other Vassili, Red-Eye - any gun; By Stark, BR or Dreiss… Heck I sometimes manage to do it with M4… Probably bad aiming Vassili on other side, but still BR is more than enough to outsnipe Vassili IMO.

Third thing, Phoenix can’t heal on distance. When I started playing Sparks normally, I could top score without any kills, cause my job was to revive teammates so they can kill enemies. I couldn’t be easily killed as I was taking distance from enemies, and for personal defense emp-9 was good enough…

Also about that jump nerf.
IMO, shotguns should have been nerfed way before… They were just being buffed, update after update… All those buffs.
I remember Hollunds being called “best shotgun” by some, now it is worse cause shotguns were getting buffed.

In times when Hollunds was considered best shotgun, shotguns were already balanced or even op, and than it got even worse!

This is first nerf to shotguns, or at least first normal nerf to shotguns.

As I said before: Wall jumping/long jumping was probably introduced to the game cause of parkour system, and some trickyjumps, and not to have some rabbits that can one shot you from air with their OP as they are, shotguns.

There actually is… You can’t go head on 1v1 on Rhino with Proxy… That is why Rhino is combat merc, and Proxy is Obj. Spec…
Either wait for him to start defusing and kill him with shotgun in 2 shots before he can even draw out his minigun,
or you could throw mine and make that frustrating suicide move,
or go play actual combat merc.

SD please introduce jetpacks to Proxys and Auras, and remove spread in air, so they can one shot us from air!!! :DDD :sarcastic:

EDIT: @NexDroid I was kinda ranting here, sry bro! I would just be mad if they removed spread in air now when they accomplished nerfing something that should’ve been nerfed long ago.

(srswizard) #31

I just don’t see why this was necessary.
This change is basically catering to the average moron who would cry about “bunnyhopping” on here and steam forums.
This “bunnyhopping” was often a Proxy’s or Aura’s only chance of winning specific gunfights, because of the slow shotgun reload speeds, you could fire once, then wall jump and offset the enemies’ aim for long enough to get a 2nd shot out.
Sure you can still do it, but why make it less reliable? These are by no mean the most popular and powerful mercs to begin with.

Worst thing, however, is the completely unnecessary Vassili nerf that came with this change.

I sincerely hope that they revert this change, and find other ways to cater to moronic idiots.

(NexDroid) #32

First thing I would like to say is that Sparks should be played as medic, not as a sniper… Why the heck would anyone call a class a medic if it purpose is to snipe?

So you want to say, that sawbonez shouldnt use smg? Or that phoenix should be played only to heal? This is NOT TF2, where medic has no weapons to kill at all. Its like saying, hey you got gun but dont try to use it.

Well, cause it is not…

Second thing. Vassili can be outsniped by other Vassili, Red-Eye - any gun; By Stark, BR or Dreiss… Heck I sometimes manage to do it with M4… Probably bad aiming Vassili on other side, but still BR is more than enough to outsnipe Vassili IMO.

Good vaseline will kill you way before you can even shot that two bursts to his head. Sparks was only one who could one hit kill vaselines.

Third thing, Phoenix can’t heal on distance. When I started playing Sparks normally, I could top score without any kills, cause my job was to revive teammates so they can kill enemies. I couldn’t be easily killed as I was taking distance from enemies, and for personal defense emp-9 was good enough…

EMP9 is everything just not good. If you kill someone with emp, it means that you are better than him (alot better actually). Sparks is medic, but as i said before, she is not ONLY medic, she can defuse, she can kill and she can do everything else what other mercs can. If you cant play her as sombat merc, than, im sorry to sying that, you are bad player.

Also about that jump nerf.
IMO, shotguns should have been nerfed way before… They were just being buffed, update after update… All those buffs.
I remember Hollunds being called “best shotgun” by some, now it is worse cause shotguns were getting buffed.

Could you please explain me, why shotguns should be nerfed wa before? They were sh*t and now they are useless. You deal 0dmg at 15m. Its always better to draw secondaries, but my damned proxy got hollunds with deagle. Hollunds is by far the worst shotgun, and it always used to be. Slowest of them all, moderate dmg, huge recoil. I havent noticed any shotguns buff since ive been playing. And i play DB since july 2015.

In times when Hollunds was considered best shotgun, shotguns were already balanced or even op, and than it got even worse!

This is first nerf to shotguns, or at least first normal nerf to shotguns.

As I said before: Wall jumping/long jumping was probably introduced to the game cause of parkour system, and some trickyjumps, and not to have some rabbits that can one shot you from air with their OP as they are, shotguns.

AS someone said before, you can go play cs:go if you want slow tactical gameplay. Ive always prefered more skill base games, where you have to know how to move and dodge. Ive been playing Urban Terror for 5 years and really loved that move system. Few months ago i saw video about DB and it looked like UrT with new graphic and some few more improvments. Ive really liked it, but now, its just ordinary game.

There actually is… You can’t go head on 1v1 on Rhino with Proxy… That is why Rhino is combat merc, and Proxy is Obj. Spec…
Either wait for him to start defusing and kill him with shotgun in 2 shots before he can even draw out his minigun,
or you could throw mine and make that frustrating suicide move,
or go play actual combat merc.

Yeah, and what if rhino goes against you, and you are alone? What should you do? Die and take skyhammer? Then die again and take back proxy to plant c4? I dont know if you have ever played pub games, but your team usually do everything just not protecting engies. You cant throw mine at him, because most of people arent dumb enough to stay on it and let it kill them. Ive seen alot of rhinos camped at hallway with aura´s station nearby and when this happens, youi cant just wait for defusing.

SD please introduce jetpacks to Proxys and Auras, and remove spread in air, so they can one shot us from air!!! :DDD :sarcastic:

So funny… cant breath… NO

EDIT: @NexDroid I was kinda ranting here, sry bro! I would just be mad if they removed spread in air now when they accomplished nerfing something that should’ve been nerfed long ago.[/quote]
¨
Yeah you woukld be mad, because you want to play csgo, but have no money to buy it, so you came here to play DB. Tell me, what is the main reason you play DB, what you like the most about it? Since last patch i had liked movement system, now? I dont like this game anymore. I play DB only for daily bonuses (which are often bugged), then i switch to other games. Its shame that this game was killed by something so little, like adding spread to jump shots. Well, you can just say goodbye to me, and ignore me, but think about it. Am i the only one who dont like this? No, im not. Well, its not so HUGE change, but it drastically changed way how many people were playing game. What was so uncommon about dirty bomb? Graphics, where its colorness is amazing, mercs system, where each merc plays diferently, and movement. Well, they have just removed one of its best parts. You can say that you can still jump, but now, its useless, because most of time you have no time to jump away, because everyone will shot you in air. There have been alot of bad decissions made in DB, but this is, at least for me, the most serious one. They said, that next merc will be out in March, so, see you in game in March then, or after this jump nerf will be removed. One more thing, why are you so badly against jumping? Cant you just shoot that proxy before she gets too close? If so, itsn not problem of game…

EDIT: Sorry for that wrong editing, im new on this forum and dont know how it works.

(Mrarauzz) #33

I’m calling it here, next update will penalize strafing because DB obviously wants to be CSGO and this will impact Vasili the most making him have to be stationary!

(Feley) #34

I never wanted to play CS GO, and have never played it… Also I didn’t know mechanics of CS GO before ppl started talking about it after this update… Furthermore, I don’t like Execution (mode of CS GO) and I play Objective or Stopwatch all the time, which is why I play Dirty Bomb.

You can just go around like that and express some other people opinions. In my post, I wrote my opinion, while in your post I see direct insult, and misexpresing my opinions and decisions of why am I playing DB.

Anyways, back to topic. I don’t see why should this be a reason to your leaving the game…
You can still jump and shoot, this update just made it little more realistic, and little more fair… When people bunnyhopp, they aren’t that easy to shoot as you described, that is why people are complaining about bunnyhopping. If they were easy to shoot, you wouldn’t see any compliants about that. Also adding that mercs such as Proxy or Aura are fast enough to walljump all the way behind you, and while doing so, hit you with shotgun in air… It is a bit unfair.

Also, I can shoot the proxy before she gets too close… Bunnyhopping isn’t problem to me anymore, but it was before when I was a noob, and I remember it as very bad thing.
Other thing… Shotguns were f*cking sniper rifles before this update… Proxy shouldn’t even get close to kill with two shots!

And one more thing, why are you so badly against jump nerfing? Can’t you just shoot that enemy with Proxy while running? If so, it isn’t a problem of game… :wink:

EDIT: Oh also, I forgot to mention, I am not that much against of bunnyhopping as I am against shotguns, but this nerf also did it for me, as most bunnyhoppers have shotguns :slight_smile:

(NexDroid) #35

[quote=“Feley;144226”][quote=“NexDroid;144219”]
Yeah you woukld be mad, because you want to play csgo, but have no money to buy it, so you came here to play DB. Tell me, what is the main reason you play DB, what you like the most about it? Since last patch i had liked movement system, now? I dont like this game anymore. I play DB only for daily bonuses (which are often bugged), then i switch to other games. Its shame that this game was killed by something so little, like adding spread to jump shots. Well, you can just say goodbye to me, and ignore me, but think about it. Am i the only one who dont like this? No, im not. Well, its not so HUGE change, but it drastically changed way how many people were playing game. What was so uncommon about dirty bomb? Graphics, where its colorness is amazing, mercs system, where each merc plays diferently, and movement. Well, they have just removed one of its best parts. You can say that you can still jump, but now, its useless, because most of time you have no time to jump away, because everyone will shot you in air. There have been alot of bad decissions made in DB, but this is, at least for me, the most serious one. They said, that next merc will be out in March, so, see you in game in March then, or after this jump nerf will be removed. One more thing, why are you so badly against jumping? Cant you just shoot that proxy before she gets too close? If so, itsn not problem of game…

EDIT: Sorry for that wrong editing, im new on this forum and dont know how it works.

[/quote]

I never wanted to play CS GO, and have never played it… Also I didn’t know mechanics of CS GO before ppl started talking about it after this update… Furthermore, I don’t like Execution (mode of CS GO) and I play Objective or Stopwatch all the time, which is why I play Dirty Bomb.

You can just go around like that and express some other people opinions. In my post, I wrote my opinion, while in your post I see direct insult, and misexpresing my opinions and decisions of why am I playing DB.

Anyways, back to topic. I don’t see why should this be a reason to your leaving the game…
You can still jump and shoot, this update just made it little more realistic, and little more fair… When people bunnyhopp, they aren’t that easy to shoot as you described, that is why people are complaining about bunnyhopping. If they were easy to shoot, you wouldn’t see any compliants about that. Also adding that mercs such as Proxy or Aura are fast enough to walljump all the way behind you, and while doing so, hit you with shotgun in air… It is a bit unfair.

Also, I can shoot the proxy before she gets too close… Bunnyhopping isn’t problem to me anymore, but it was before when I was a noob, and I remember it as very bad thing.
Other thing… Shotguns were f*cking sniper rifles before this update… Proxy shouldn’t even get close to kill with two shots!

And one more thing, why are you so badly against jump nerfing? Can’t you just shoot that enemy with Proxy while running? If so, it isn’t a problem of game… :wink:[/quote]

Well it wasnt meant as direct insult, if you are insulted, im sorry. I dont think that shutguns were anytime at DB sniper rifles. Shotguns in real world can kill a man on more than 50m. Game developers just want to make them glass cannons so they deal huge dmg closer you are, nothing wrong about it. But when you have to be literally on touch with someone to kill him with shotgun, there is something wrong. As it was before, they were not fine, nor balanced, but usefull in some situations. Now, there is nearly impossible to find them usefull. Ive played some time with proxy and hollunds, and you had to be close to one hit aura. Now you have to be even closer, which makes shotguns to feel like huge knife. Whatever, shotguns are junk in this game, and im kind of used to it. As you said, I can still jump and shoot, but RNG will make decission if i hit or miss. And this is the main reason why i hate this. This isnt super realistic game, and shouldnt be, we dont need any more games like Arma or operation flashpoint. To be good in DB you had to know how to move, jump and shoot. Now in order to be good you have to hide, crouch, aim sights and move slowly and carefully. Ive played two games today and saw alot of campers, alot of people just going around corner, shoot few rounds and hide back. It is alright, many games can be played that way, but please, dont bring this to DB. I dont like this kind of gameplay, its annoying and only counterstrike to this is nade of nader or fragger. I like dynamic gameplay, where you have to move fast, aim fast, shoot fast, kill fast and be fast and precise to be the best.

This is applied to, as you said, combat mercs, but works alot with engies, medics and other supports too. Even when you rush to wall to plant C4, you can usually use to deal headshot with shotgun. So you run, jump, walljump, now you need to land, stop, and shot. It just slows the game. Now its diferent, worse for me in my opinion, and maybe better for you. I dont know, i just say that i dont like this game as much as i used to before patch.

Yup and Im so much against jump nerfing because it slows game ALOT. What is maybe more realistic, but there are 16568446841654 more games which i can play instead of DB if i want slower gameplay. Fast paced games are only DB (well used to), Urban Teror (which is dead atm), Unreal Tournament (dead), Quake (few players play it - but its too old school for me :smiley: )

(Jostabeere) #36

[quote=“srswizard;144216”]I just don’t see why this was necessary.
This change is basically catering to the average moron who would cry about “bunnyhopping” on here and steam forums.
This “bunnyhopping” was often a Proxy’s or Aura’s only chance of winning specific gunfights, because of the slow shotgun reload speeds, you could fire once, then wall jump and offset the enemies’ aim for long enough to get a 2nd shot out.
Sure you can still do it, but why make it less reliable? These are by no mean the most popular and powerful mercs to begin with.

Worst thing, however, is the completely unnecessary Vassili nerf that came with this change.

I sincerely hope that they revert this change, and find other ways to cater to moronic idiots.[/quote]

Why should every merc win every form of a firefight? Especially if the said merc isn’t designed for open combat?
Edit: For example. You come across a corner and see a Rhino as Aura. Noone forces you to fight him. You can freely back off and wait for a big guy on your team you can support while he kills the Rhino and you get a big hot load of Support EXP in your face.

(SnakekillerX) #37

People who like shooting while in the air hate the change.
People who don’t like shooting while in the air love the change.

The end.

(Feley) #38

[quote=“SnakekillerX;144237”]People who like shooting while in the air hate the change.
People who don’t like shooting while in the air love the change.

The end.[/quote]

Not true, I sometimes myself like shooting while in the air, but IMO it gives adventage to players that are doing that… I mean, with BR, I am sometimes going to jump, to kill enemy unsuspectedly…
With Vassili, I am going to jump as well (I am not saying I am usually jumping, but I do that from time to time cause it will give me adventage, especially on long range)

Cause of that adventage I appreciate this nerf.
But in short range, shotguns were problem for me as they can one shot, and what is even more annoying, when proxy/aura jump, you don’t actually know they will jump, and once you realise (in a milisecond or so) they are already in far in air (cause they are fast as they are), and they have adventage of taking that first shot, which can be lethal for fight…

(Jostabeere) #39

[quote=“SnakekillerX;144237”]People who like shooting while in the air hate the change.
People who don’t like shooting while in the air love the change.

The end.[/quote]

I love shooting in air.
But I dislike that some mercs have a much bigger advantage while doing so and no disadvantages.

(SnakekillerX) #40

This can be said for fighting on the ground as well though.
A still target is harder to hit than a moving target, and you can go from not moving to moving fairly quickly within a millisecond while constantly changing directions. Why not nerf accuracy here as well then?

Jumping is just an extra layer on top of that, instead of moving side to side you are moving up, which as countless people have mentioned has a predictable curve making some situations even easier for the person not jumping.

I doubt people who honestly just plain old suck at shooting while in the air are winning fire fights because of “Random” as people are stating, aiming properly at a target while jumping takes every bit as much skill to successfully land a shot as standing on the ground, more so as you have an extra axis of movement to compensate for.

I see no reason this should have been nerfed, people who are skilled and jumping off walls and staying airborne while firing are punished rather than rewarded for being able to add the extra layer of play into the mix.