The decision to nerf movement and jumping while in combat in the last patch is really dissapointing.

[Anaconda1]

It’s sad to see that Splash Damage gave in to people complaining that the game is too fast paced and they can’t handle what is termed “bunny hopping”. There are PLENTY of slow paced tactical/realistic games, and what made this game stand out for me, is that it was much closer to old school shooters like Quake 2/3 and Unreal Tournament, where moving around in combat and jumping ( yes, jumping, not “bunny hopping”) rewards you in combat. Jumping and moving in combat takes skill, despite what people who are used to slow games like counter strike will tell you. Old school gamers such as myself enjoy games where the ability to move fast around the environment and your enemy rewards you rather than hinders you. Sadly, due to the popularity of counter strike, battlefield and call of duty, such games are extremely rare these days because everyone wants maximum realism and the ability to just sit in a corner somewhere and pick off enemies.

Nothing wrong with that, but I don’t think Dirty Bomb should be that kind of game and it’s really disappointing that Splash Damage is taking it into that direction. I know the developer’s objective is to make money, but changing the mechanics of the game to appeal to modern gamer’s love of slow paced “realistic” shooters is not productive. They won’t stick around once a new COD or CS game comes out. Why not leave the game as is, and let the minority who enjoy playing fast paced, UNREALISTIC, games play the game? It’s not like the game was short on players, or people weren’t spending money in the store, they were.

There are plenty of realistic or semi realistic shooters that people can play where “bunny hopping” is movement in combat is not rewarded. There are plenty of games where people can sit in a corner, aiming down sights and camping for the next enemy.

There are few games these days where players who enjoy fast paced movement can play.

It’s a real disappoint that Splash Damage decided to change the mechanics of the game in such a drastic way, just because Counter-Strike player #16 is upset that people are jumping around in combat, since he never experienced that in old school shooters like Quake and Unreal.

I have 566 hours in the game. I was really enjoying it. I was really happy that a developer finally made a game with old school, unrealistic, shooting mechanics and I am extremely disappointed that Splash Damage has decided to change the game’s style just to make more money. People who complained about bunny hopping and fast movement have hundreds of other games to choose from, why not let fast paced old school players have their game too?

[Eox]

I quite agree. The movement system of a game is also something a good player have to master. I don’t think that raising up the spread that much while airborn is such a good thing. An aerial playstyle in DB could have a lot of potential : I am not speaking about players that would mash their space button in a duel (and those are easy to deal against anyway), but more about those kind of players who will chain two wall jumps to get in your face or long jump from a ledge and down you while midair. That’s two kind of frags that I probably won’t be able to see or perform anymore. That’s sad, because it’s just classy.

Shooters that promotes mobility are refreshing, and most of them are really skillful to play. Just look at some Quake-Like games like Xonotic, or just TF2 when it comes about the Scout or the Soldier. One guy made a thread about how much he wanted to see the so called “bunny hopping” gone, yet he got disagreed to death. Why was that change made then ?

I feel like impairing “good” mobility would dumb down the game. I can understand why one want to punish players that dumbly spam the space button, but some moves definitely should not be punished IMO. At least removing the spread increase if a long jump is performed would be a very good step in the right direction : this would promote a more mobile playstyle a lot, and probably make competition much more interesting to watch.

[Remedica]

@Anaconda Amen brother.

[Mrarauzz]

Yep I don’t get why people had a problem? Like in other games people always try to do shit to move out of the way of fire…and tracking players that jump isn’t even that hard…this paired with execution makes me think dirty Bomb wants to become more like CSGO

[Ballto]

they may as well just remove the fast mercs, or edit them so much they may as well just be new mercs.

then the whining CoD crowd can be happy with their medium speed mercs and inability to track quick moving targets

put on your tinfoil hats for everything else below this.

Why would they nerf jumping and as a result fast mercs?

They want to buff fletcher. Fletcher, that overpowered motherfucker who clears a point as well as a nader while being an engineer himself.

How doe sthis buff him? People cant dodge his fucking bombs as well anymore. One of the more effective ways to dodge the stickies was jumping around them, now you cant, or you cant shoot him as well.

Just remove all engineers but fletcher and all medics except sparks, you probably wont see much different overall

[Amerika]

I’m confused by this thread. Mobility wasn’t touched at all. You can still be mobile, you can still dodge nades, stickies and anything else. You just can’t mash jump and shoot and then hope to hit as often as you did before and be successful. You simply have to land and shoot which is how most good players played anyway. You can still jump over somebody midair and shoot down at them. It’s a bit more random but it still works since you’re close.

The only part of the change I even care about is that it affected bolt-action rifles because that severely nerfs Vassili’s potential and destroys an entire playstyle that made him viable and now forces Vas players to be “the bad sniper” on the team as being mobile and aggressive is incredibly harder now.

So yeah, this nerf only affects you if you were the type of player who started firing and started jumping at the same time. This does not affect your mobility at all unless you were that type of player and that’s exactly the type of thing SD was trying to reduce by rewarding it less. I would have been fine if it was left as it was but I am also fine with the change as it only buffs my playstyle against players who were relying on being “oh so random” to win fights.

FUN FACT:

A common myth is that CoD games are realistic. They aren’t. They were built to be “arcade shooters” which is a direct quote from Infinity Ward. The only reason why people confuse those games with being realistic is because of the crazy low Time To Kill which was made as low as it was not because it was more realistic but because it was quick and arcade-like and didn’t require a ton of tracking skill common to most shooters at the time of development. AKA they wanted to make a game that was easier for more people to play and faster paced in regards to getting kills. So low TTK and reduced weapon choices making it a simpler game that could appeal to a broader audience is what they were going for (and sadly it worked). It has absolutely nothing to do with realism, simulation or tactical gameplay (which is another term that is often used incorrectly).

[Anaconda1]

Mobility WAS nerfed because your potential to fight while moving has been greatly diminished. You are now penalized for shooting while moving, and in a game that has elements of parkour that’s suppose to encourage movement, it just doesn’t make sense. You even admit it when you say, “You have to land and shoot”, ie, your mobility is limited because you have to be on the ground to avoid penalty.

Mashing “jump” and shooting is a joke tactic that only worked against new players pre-nerf. There was no need to “nerf” it, any experienced player has no trouble fighting someone who mashes jump, but someone who can jump effectively, maneuvering around, jumping off walls above you etc, something that takes skill, is now penalized. The game is now slowed.

“Oh so random” as you put it, is a skill, in the hands of the correct player. It’s a valid tactic that INTENDS on confusing you and messing with your ability to track your opponent. Once again, this promotes the idea of everyone camping on the ground, walking slow, aiming down sights etc, something you can already play in Battlefield or COD.

Yeah, COD isn’t “realistic” per se, but it did make a move to shift games from old arena shooters that rewarded mobility and quick reflexes, and moved it into forcing people to slow down, aim down sights, etc. There’s nothing wrong with players who like that type of game, but I don’t see why Dirty Bomb’s game style has to be changed to appeal to them. Why leave the parkour in? Remove the ability to bounce off walls and long jump then. Then everyone can walk slowly, ADSing their way to victory.

[Amerika]

[quote=“Anaconda;143909”]Mobility WAS nerfed because your potential to fight while moving has been greatly diminished. You are now penalized for shooting while moving, and in a game that has elements of parkour that’s suppose to encourage movement, it just doesn’t make sense. You even admit it when you say, “You have to land and shoot”, ie, your mobility is limited because you have to be on the ground to avoid penalty.

Mashing “jump” and shooting is a joke tactic that only worked against new players pre-nerf. There was no need to “nerf” it, any experienced player has no trouble fighting someone who mashes jump, but someone who can jump effectively, maneuvering around, jumping off walls above you etc, something that takes skill, is now penalized. The game is now slowed.

“Oh so random” as you put it, is a skill, in the hands of the correct player. It’s a valid tactic that INTENDS on confusing you and messing with your ability to track your opponent. Once again, this promotes the idea of everyone camping on the ground, walking slow, aiming down sights etc, something you can already play in Battlefield or COD.

Yeah, COD isn’t “realistic” per se, but it did make a move to shift games from old arena shooters that rewarded mobility and quick reflexes, and moved it into forcing people to slow down, aim down sights, etc. There’s nothing wrong with players who like that type of game, but I don’t see why Dirty Bomb’s game style has to be changed to appeal to them. Why leave the parkour in? Remove the ability to bounce off walls and long jump then. Then everyone can walk slowly, ADSing their way to victory.

[/quote]

You say mashing jump and shooting is a joke tactic yet that is exactly what you want back in the game if I am understanding what you’re saying. If you mashed the jump button while shooting you are now less likely to hit at anything but close range. It wasn’t too hard to defeat but it was good enough to allow players who rely on it to win out randomly as opposed to actual skill. Now it’s a lot harder to pull off…still possible but it’s even more easily punished by reducing a player’s chances of landing shots consistently.

You just can’t start jumping and shooting at medium range anymore which, if you were a good player, you didn’t do anyway due to how random it already was.

What exactly do you want changed back? Can you describe exactly how you played before and at what ranges that is now nerfed?

Also, about CoD, that’s another misconception. The shooting mechanics were built to speed up the games and fights and allow for fast kills and only rely on twitch reactions as opposed to consistent aim because it was easier for people to do (and later worked out when CoD transitioned to consoles using controllers). You can go from kill to kill to kill super fast in the game and never have to focus long on an opponent. CoD is not a sim or anything like a sim. Every iteration of it has been an arcade shooter that is light on hardcore mechanics in an effor to speed up fight interactions. The common internet mentality is thinking of CoD as players walking around a map slowly with ADS up when in reality CoD is about running lanes and getting in and out of engagements fast.

[zealousHumdinger]

I have to side with Amerika here and since he explains it much better than I could, I’ll just click those Agrees as he puts all my thoughts in proper words.

[watsyurdeal]

Only jumping was nerfed significantly, strafing was completely unaffected.

[KayDubz]

Learn to adapt and aim better.

This game has given penalties for bunny hopping in combat for a long time (much bigger bullet spread). Strafing and crouching have always been better than hopping around.

[KayDubz]

PS - For the longest time I thought it was too easy for me to get jump kills with ironsighted. It makes sense that they added a bit of spread to that.

[Anaconda1]

[quote=“Kay-Dubz;143958”]Learn to adapt and aim better.

This game has given penalties for bunny hopping in combat for a long time (much bigger bullet spread). Strafing and crouching have always been better than hopping around.[/quote]

Of course, you can do ANYTHING with the game and the excuse of “Learn to adapt and aim better” will still work. It’s a non-argument.
I just don’t understand, why have parkour in a game and then penalize players for using it?
As far as crouching, please. I liked this game because it rewards you for moving. If you want to crouch, there are hundreds of thousands of players playing Counter Strike and Battlefield right now, to fill your crouch simulator needs.

To answer Amerika’s question, I mostly play Proxy and I take full advantage of jumping for parkour, to be able to bounce around my opponents, often (esp with heavy classes like Rhino) ending up literally on top of their head. What is the point of light and mobile classes now? You can’t use your mobility to get an advantage because your accuracy is destroyed once you move. I bet Rhino players are rejoicing.

Now, because players who like to sit back and play things slow are the majority of the FPS world, the developer went back and made it impossible to continue playing in that style. Why retain the parkour and wall jumping then, if using it gets penalized?

I guess money talks. I’m not surprised at all, Splash Damage always values money above everything else and will change their game to get as many paying customers as possible. At least I had a good time playing for 500+ hours before they decided to destroy the game in hopes of attracting the “slow moving/tactical fps” crowd.

[Jostabeere]

I don’t understand why people act like the movement was changed. It wasn’t. Only the ability to spam guns in one form of movement was restricted. And now that people can’t panichopping and get lucky kills with shotguns, they pull the “oldschool shooter” card.

@Anaconda Don’t start to tell wrong things and exaggregate it. You’re still fine as long as you don’t jump. The part “your accuracy is destroyed once you move” is BS.

[Szakalot]

i dont see what the big deal is.

wall spam was already a desperation tactic as the accuracy penalty would generally not be worth it. Except in close quarters i suppose;
where the wallspam actually can get pretty silly, especially if the ceiling is low, makes the wall spamming merc look like they are glitching through the roof.

The accuracy nerf isn’t that huge either, it just makes wall spam a bit more risky, and punished harder if overused.

Jumping makes you harder to hit, yeah not in open areas, but if you are anywhere near a wall you can suddenly change moving direction; which can be hard to track. Most importantly, jumping largely protects you from consecutive headshots.

More dodging capabilities = less shooting capabilities - makes sense to me.

Plus, the wallspam makes positioning&flanking less relevant as any crossfire can be bumrushed with spam, making the game a grindy TDM rather than a sophisticated tactical team shooter with arena-shooter based skillsets.

I’m not buying the skill purists argument either, just because something is skillful doesnt mean its fun, or good for the game. Shoving up your elbow up your ass takes a great amount of skill and dedication to be sure, but that does not mean its a goal worth pursuing.

[Amerika]

@Anaconda You can still do that. I was doing that last night without any issues in CQC with multiple mercs like normal. So that tactic really hasn’t changed a whole lot. What has changed is if you relied on jumping + shooting non-stop in hopes of getting a random kill while you were at range. There was already a ton of randomness with that tactic and all that changed was the randomness was upped a bit. Instead of relying on aiming you were relying on luck to win fights and now you have to be even luckier if you are at anything but close range. And if you are a shotgun user you get hit harder with the damage falloff change if you never paid attention to your ranges before.

If you’re playing correctly you can still hop over people and shoot down into their heads, confuse them and land behind them and dome them. But if you’re the type of player who jumped constantly while firing from mid-range hoping for lucky hits while making it harder to hit your head you’re going to have a rough go.

Since it’s been brought up and you haven’t answered…you realize that the change only affects jumping right? Not strafing. Nothing changed with strafing but you keep responding as if you’re also including strafing. Only jumping was affected and it wasn’t even changed a ton as it was already random and for those who used ADS while jumping (I never felt the need to) will also get a bit of a nerf.

[CirclesofJerk]

[quote=“Amerika;143937”]

You say mashing jump and shooting is a joke tactic yet that is exactly what you want back in the game if I am understanding what you’re saying. If you mashed the jump button while shooting you are now less likely to hit at anything but close range. It wasn’t too hard to defeat but it was good enough to allow players who rely on it to win out randomly as opposed to actual skill. Now it’s a lot harder to pull off…still possible but it’s even more easily punished by reducing a player’s chances of landing shots consistently.

You just can’t start jumping and shooting at medium range anymore which, if you were a good player, you didn’t do anyway due to how random it already was.[/quote]

How is adding RNG suddenly good if it’s on top of RNG? Wouldn’t it be better to reduce jump spread to make the game more skill based instead of adding even more RNG to it? It’s saddening to see an aspect of movement in what supposedly is a movement-based game get nerfed even further into the ground because people can’t stand aiming vertically. This is exactly like the band-aid fix for melee where every melee was nerfed because of the katana. Now every single gun in the game is nerfed because of “mashing the jump button”.

[XavienX]

Yea, games like CoD actually tried to move a bit away from realism and therefore produced Advanced Warfare and Black Ops 3 that allowed more jumping and midair attacks but people really disliked it. I like the fact that you can walljump in this game and it opened many new playstyles that couldn’t be achieved in most modern video games. Now that they completely nerfed bunnyhopping aiming, especially for sniper rifles which was the most astonishing thing I’ve ever seen in a video game to ever be nerfed like that.

[KayDubz]

ITT: Some folks who relied on jumping rather than superior aim to get kills.

ITT: Someone who never learned that SD always pushed for “less movement = enhanced precision.”

The game as always rewarded crouch and strafe-shooting over jump-shooting. Youre able to kill people very easily when crouched, compared to jumping. And I dont think players should be rewarded for bouncing around defensively.

If you want to jump to avoid getting shot, then deal with the accuracy penalty. You shouldnt be very accurate while also pretty mobile. Thats called balance. Why else do you think more health = less speed? Same thing, balance. Why do you think weak mercs get speed and hand cannons(shotguns)? Balance.

Why should players be allowed to be fast, agile, and also have good accuracy in the air? I most certainly believe you deserve a spread penalty if youre jumping defensively and randomly in a firefight. Thats how most people do it.

The few skilled people I see regularly use jumping in a truly skilled way, are player over level 20 who use it to close the gap on their enemy, land, and then shoot them. Or they do a few wall jumps when wounded to get away.

But the vast majority of players simply hop hop hop when in any firefight.

[CirclesofJerk]

[quote=“Kay-Dubz;144036”]ITT: Some folks who relied on jumping rather than superior aim to get kills.

ITT: Someone who never learned that SD always pushed for “less movement = enhanced precision.”

The game as always rewarded crouch and strafe-shooting over jump-shooting. Youre able to kill people very easily when crouched, compared to jumping. And I dont think players should be rewarded for bouncing around defensively.

If you want to jump to avoid getting shot, then deal with the accuracy penalty. You shouldnt be very accurate while also pretty mobile. Thats called balance. Why else do you think more health = less speed? Same thing, balance. Why do you think weak mercs get speed and hand cannons(shotguns)? Balance.

Why should players be allowed to be fast, agile, and also have good accuracy in the air? I most certainly believe you deserve a spread penalty if youre jumping defensively and randomly in a firefight. Thats how most people do it.

The few skilled people I see regularly use jumping in a truly skilled way, are player over level 20 who use it to close the gap on their enemy, land, and then shoot them. Or they do a few wall jumps when wounded to get away.

But the vast majority of players simply hop hop hop when in any firefight.[/quote]

The game never really rewarded crouch shooting much compared to strafe shooting. It has always been the better decision to strafe instead of stand still, even with marksman weapons like the semi-auto rifles, because you’re not a sitting duck. Jumping was meant to be rewarded sparingly with relatively little spread increase at close range. The penalty is a speed reduction on consecutive hops, meaning you can jump occasionally in combat not too much. This on top of the current nerf puts usefulness way underground. If you shouldn’t be accurate while being mobile in your words, why not force players to stand still as if this were a slow-paced shooter? You’re saying you see some players use jumping in a good, skillful way. Why the hell would you penalize good players in that regard because lesser skilled players can’t track one who’s jumping? What’s up with this mentality to cater to the lesser skilled casual players in what’s meant to be a competitive game that is marketed towards it?

About those first few statements, it’s possible to jump while using superior aim to get kills. Why generalize the opposing group as almost a strawman to put your opinion on a pedestal?