Temple Sniper Remix - SNIPER MAP

[Kennie115]

its not Marco but Marko btw

[ChiemseeMan]

Hi, i whas the first who have put your map on www.etmaps.de.
I think Northerner have DL it from there.

I have see your map running on a Server, a open Server not a Private.
All Maps i put on etmaps.de, the Servers are all open for public.

It might to be difficult always find the Mapper on the server and ask it.

That dont hold me back to release any Map.
We all love new Maps, Alphas, Betas, Finals, all its ok.

[M8DNephelim]

Reading, reading, reading - read it.

kk, I agree - we all love maps and we all have downloaded 100´s of them into our etmain folder.
They have laerned their lesson to always ask for permission before they dig into an exisiting map and they have learned how to properly include credits in a read me file.
Also they have learned how to passprotect a server for private use instead of hosting a map for public that was not ment to be public.

I dont see any reason to continue this flame war.
Lesson learned - case closed.

MLB are all three very nice persons thats very easy to deal with. Respect to them and to all of you mappers out there. Keep up the good work (and include your credits)! :drink:

/M8D Nephelim

[Busta_Capinyoass]

Words of wisdom.

Honestly, out of all the ET maps Mega and I have played, that canyon was the best suited location to snipe from EVER.

I hope MLB takes it as the tribute it was meant to be.

[colmusturd]

i dont yet know megalyth but i have known busta for a very long time and i can vouch for him when he sais he never meant to upset anyone over the temple sniper remix map.( id love to be able to make a map). it does appear that somewhere along the line another file has been added and i believe this had nothing to do with busta or megalyth as they have been straightforward about it since they learned they had caused a bit of unrest here. i do fully understand what marko is saying but i hope he sees this for what it is and that was 2 people trying to help out a clan server with a sniper map in wich players can not cross to the other side.
im sure they wont do it again without going through the proper channels, now they know there is a procedure to follow.

colmusturd

[Sauron_EFG]

I have see your map running on a Server, a open Server not a Private.
All Maps i put on etmaps.de, the Servers are all open for public.

I’m not it’s a good idea to spread maps that have not been released the “proper” way (with an announcement by the mapper). For one thing the readme file is usually in the zip file, not in the pk3, so redistributing the pk3 is not what the mapper intended.

I’ve seen some maps (on e.g. etmaps.de) that clearly are no more than unfinished mapping experiments never intended for release that I suspect someone happened to find on a non-passworded server, and I don’t feel that hosting those files benefits anyone (mappers or people that are interrested in custom maps).

Other than that you’re doing the community a great service by mirroring “real” maps.

[ChiemseeMan]

But until one through-asked oneself and a release gets, that can last eternally or it never comes off.

Otherwise we would have not 700 maps, but perhaps only 400-500, when i dont host all maps what i can find.
I think its my Job to find maps for the community (from time to time also at secret places).

Yes the readme is sometimes a problem, i can’t allways DL a zip-file.
But map makers can put the readme in the .pk3, i DL it from a Server and put the readme from the file out and make a .rar (.pk3 + readme).
And in the readme mappers can wrote: “Map is not ready for public, dont host it on any sites”
I have the same problem with “V-2 Factory” from Mean Mr. Mustard.

Yes some maps are unfinished, but i dont take in any form a look in the map, only release it. Have no much time to look and play.

Thanks Sauron, i hope i do a good Job and people like it.

(Google helped me with english) :bored:

[Megalyth]

:bump:

Something has come to my attention regarding this topic and I deemed it important enough to bump this thread (sorry admins).

http://lowlife.homepage.dk/tram.htm

The L in MLB, known as Lowlife, is the converter of mp_tram from RTCW to ET.

I checked out the mp_tram.pk3 file and guess what, there’s no .map file included. It was a decompile, no permission was granted from Activision, Grey Matter, Splash Damage, or whoever else had a hand in the original map. I’m quite sure they don’t have the time to not only grant permission, but to send the .map file to anybody who wants it.

Having said that, make no mistake about it - I’m not badmouthing MLB or Lowlife in particular. Rather, my point is that everyone treats Desert Temple like gold, but an OFFICIAL MAP PACK BY THE COMPANY THAT MADE THE GAME can be decompiled, converted, and otherwise messed with and nobody gives a damn. In fact, it is widely played and hailed as a staple map.

I was never big on RTCW, so I never played mp_tram more than a few times, but I know for a fact that Busta played the original a lot and plays the conversion regularly and enjoys it. I speak for Busta as well when I say I’m glad SOMEBODY converted it. It’s a good map and it deserves to be played in ET as well as RTCW.

But until Activision and Grey Matter have a problem with somebody converting their maps, I will not lie down and accept the consensus that I am a “map thief” or “hacker”.
I’m guilty of nothing more or less than anyone else who has converted maps, and there are a hell of a lot.

As per the discussion so far, it has been made known that we didn’t include a text file because the map wasn’t meant for the public, whether or not the public got ahold of it. I put credit where I thought it would be most visible - in the .arena file which displays every time the map loads. That bogus text file written by Northerner is what brings me to my next point.

http://lowlife.homepage.dk/mount.htm

If you scroll down, you will see that Northerner was the beta tester for this map (Mountain Assault is not the subject here, my point has nothing to do with it).
It seems Northerner is friends with Lowlife and I believe was trying to pull strings in his favor because he can’t face the simple fact that Temple Sniper is better than AE Sniper Challenge, whether it was from scratch or not. Lowlife only heard Northerner’s side of the story, the side that says I claimed the work as original and gave no credit.

I’ve been wondering this last week why I haven’t gotten a response from MLB about this. Is it possibly because one of their members is also a map decompiler/converter and they really have nothing to complain about? I would really like to reiterate the fact that I love their maps, converted or from scratch and would still like to hear their opinions on this now that they have heard mine. My former apology was sincere in every aspect and I hope they see it as such.

I would also like to challenge everyone who read this topic and everyone in any gaming community for any game whatsoever - Ask yourself where your passions lie. Is it in playing RTCW/ET/whatever, or is it in playing elitist oneupsmanship games on this forum (or any other)? Which option is more fun? If you chose the latter, then I truly pity your outlook on gaming.

Lastly, I would like to make this perfectly clear - I will not hide behind another nickname regardless of people’s opinion of Temple Sniper. I will put the name Megalyth on every map I release for any game until the day I die. If I do any more conversions, I’ll get permission and state that fact in a readme.txt in bold 72 size font if only to keep elitist whiners like Northerner and EB from opening their filthy sewers in my direction ever again. I’d like to remind them and people of their ilk that this is the internet, I’m certainly not impressed by self-imposed intelligence and elitist attitudes from people I will never see in real life, and I would have to think nobody else is either.

That is all.

[DWM_Commando]

i think this is stupid, uve wasted 2 pages and hundreds of words fighting over a map that the person said they amde and realeased only to their (or their friends) server for personal use. It was not their intention to take credit for MLB’s work or try and promote the map. So stop wasting your time on speculations of who madde the readme and who sent it out b/c odds are you’ll never find that out b/c you have amde suc ha big stink about it. Let these guys talk to MLB about it. From waht ive read they did this for personal and server use and had no intention onf taking credit for MLB’s work. Unless you can PROVE otehrwise, stop wasting everyones time by making them read long repetative statements.

Let the flame war…BEGIN!

[Megalyth]

That person/author you speak of is me. I’m further defending my stance on this as is my right. That wasn’t a post by one of them attacking me. Sorry about the mixup if there was any.

Edit: The reaon for the lengthy post in the first place is this - I refuse to let it go at what it was before. I will not lie down and die in the face of such accusations and I will continue to make maps that people will play and enjoy.

[Northerner]

okay, here we go again…

first off with mountain assault i had permission from the original mapper ‘Nib’
and i had Lowlife do the conversion, and i also had permission for the map
Wizerness also and then had that map converted too! so thats all that needs
to be said about that!

as for your map being better then my sniper map i designed… yes, and that
was the very first thing i said in this post that it is the best sniper map i have
ever seen but i guess you forgot about that already, i gave nothing but praise
for your map till i found out about you not having permission for conversion.

and as for the readme file, yes i created that because without a readme file,
a map does not get mirrored on rtcwfiles. and since i really loved the map and
i wanted it to have as much exposure as possible i made the readme so it could
be hosted at rtcwfiles. (it just amazes me how lazy map makers are that they
cant creat a simple readme file stating details about the map and stuff)

so all i can say about this mess is, once again please get your facts straight
before you start insulting someone!

[Megalyth]

I made it pretty obvious that Mountain Assault was not the map in question. I’m aware
that it’s not a Grey Matter map and that permissions for it were acquired. “All that
needed to be said about it” as you put it, didn’t need to be said at all. I did my research
regarding those maps. It wouldn’t kill you to get your facts straight and read my posts a
little more carefully as well.

I’m talking about the LACK OF permission from Activision and Grey Matter for anyone to
convert mp_tram, mp_beach and other maps from the retail RTCW. Yes, they give
proper credit in the text files, but by that logic, the only thing I did wrong was leave out
the text file!

Read this part carefully please, I do not want to explain it again - If it’s not OK to
decompile a free custom map for a free game and release it for free, without permission
(Temple Sniper), then is it OK to decompile an official map from a retail game and release
it for free, also without permission (see maps mentioned above)? Of course not.

I’m really surprised that this has been so difficult a point to get across.
Do you get it now? It really can’t be broken down any simpler.

We can brush this under the rug for real this time, but only when you and everyone else
who made accusations is made aware of the fact that my map was not “theft” any more
than the conversions of mp_tram and mp_beach are. To refer to it as theft on my part
but not theirs is biased and hypocritical.

As for my so called laziness, I based the directory structure of my map on that of an
official ET map. Those don’t have text files, so why is mine required to? That’s a minor
nitpick IMO. People can get all the info they need by playing the map for themselves.

[Busta_Capinyoass]

Yes, it’s really that simple.

If we are not allowed to convert a third party map, what gives Lowlife the right to convert an Official RTCW map?

There’s NO way possible that permission was obtained for converting MP Tram.

So how you say? Case Closed…

And another thing Northerner, none of this, including the fact that Lowlife ALSO converts maps without permission, would have come to light if YOU hadn’t put our conversion map on RTCW files for the SOLE reason to cause trouble.

So they can thank YOU for all the bad publicity!

[Sauron_EFG]

If we are not allowed to convert a third party map, what gives Lowlife the right to convert an Official RTCW map?

Nobody here said it’s OK to convert RtCW maps to ET without permission, quite the contrary (which you’d be very aware of if you’d been around here longer).
Also, since it’s not Lowlife that is complaining your argument is totally pointless.

You were doing all right in my book when claiming responisibility for your actions and giving credit to MLB in this thread, but now the thread is just going downhill.

(And for the record: Loffy’s tram > SD’s tram )

[Luxuriant]

low_tram has a readme file.

mp_tram for Enemy Territory v2

ALL CREDITS GOES TO THE AUTHOR OF THE ORIGINAL mp_tram.

Big thanks to Activision - GrayMatter - SplashDamage.

Conversion : LowLife - Lefty - Heirpie
Command map: Gerth6000 - Lowlife

Filename : low_tram.pk3
Editor : Gtk Radiant 1.3.8 ET

[Loffy]

And for the record: Loffy’s tram > SD’s tram )

Of course, just look at the details, the “feeling” of the map and the uber-mapping skillz:

Haha, seriously. The map sux big time.
But it has to be understood in its own context: There was no Tram for ET when I started the project.
I just wanted to give the people Tram, so I rebuilt it from scratch.
I decompiled the original to get all the proper dimension but that was all I did.
Nothing from the original was kept besides the dimensions.

About classic maps: I think Tram Siege and Market-Garden by SD are among the best public maps ever.
About Temple Sniper map: I haven’t played it.
//Loffy

[Megalyth]

The reasoning of some of the people here is really infuriating.
Has ANYBODY bothered to read what I posted and tried to
understand it at all?

Luxuriant said: “low_tram has a readme file. etc. etc.”

Now, once again - By that logic, if I were to re-release Temple Sniper
WITH A TEXT FILE stating credit, everything would be OK. I could say
“Big thanks to MLB” but that doesn’t mean they gave me permission.

Where in that text file is a permission statement from Grey Matter to
decompile mp_tram? That was my point. Stop making me restate the
obvious because it’s really getting tiresome. Learn how to read and
comprehend.

[Mark.C]

Ok…Megalyth has already said he was sorry, Northerner admitted he wrote the readme, everyone has posted some pointless post to further this argument. Can’t you just act like mature guys, shake hands and make up ?

Or you could lock this topic SD.

[Busta_Capinyoass]

Loffy’s Tram is NOT the same map as Lowlife’s Tram.

Lowlife’s Tram (Which I enjoy playing and am glad he decompiled and converted BTW) is a full conversion with textures as close as they can get.

One of the BIG problems in this thread is nobody takes the time to read and UNDERSTAND the who, what where and when of the discussion. Maybe it would be shorter if that could happen.

While we are sorry, as originally stated, for not asking permission to convert the map, we do find it somewhat disturbing that one of the MLB guys did the same thing and nobody says boo.

So lets all decompile each others maps and live happily ever after? OK?

[EterneX]

who would have the nerve to do such a horid thing :huh: