Team auto-balance? huh, does it even exist??

(SnakekillerX) #101

[quote=“superLobster;c-220055”][quote=“SnakekillerX;c-218548”]If the game is 2 vs 5 its because your team left after the match had already started, or in the lobby after the game had already assigned teams.

Stay in the lobby after a match ends and you’ll see that the teams get mixed up a bit to try and balance things. Simply leaving at the end of a match and joining another one mid game doesn’t help anything.

[/quote]

pacman77 has heard of this myth about returning to lobby expecting to get a more balanced game the next time, but has so very, very rarely ever experienced it. We must be playing entirely different games because I’m CONSTANTLY paired up with the same exact people in games (good or bad players), and this also makes me put the game down for weeks at a time sometimes just because of it.[/quote]

It definately does mix up the teams. The thing is though… if someone is first place on my team (by a mile) and the rest of the team sucks, but the game was still pretty close because that one person carried, then that match was still considered (for the most part) balanced.

The one person carrying might have had a high enough score that they still need to be placed on the opposite team than the higher place players on the opposite team. From there it would have to fill in the rest of the team, but sometimes it means the person carrying just ends up carrying again.

1 person can easily offset a whole match if they aren’t not playing with a server of people with similar skill.

I highly doubt swapping teams at the last moment has any impact at all on how the teams shuffle since they are based on your performance, not your win/loss ratio.

(Fluffles) #102

I just want to share some truths about DB, people are complaining so much in this thread.

I always say: “You either win hard or lose hard.” which in the majority of matches is the case. Vote shuffles don’t really pass any more because they don’t work OR the other team just wants the easy win. Most shuffles make things worse and even make people leave which still makes things worse.

The biggest problem this game has with balancing are the AFKers and leavers.
Sure AFKers get a auto vote kick but my team never votes yes because why would you?
When these vote kicks occur I always type in chat: “Auto kick, please kick.” but it literally never works. Because of this I get stuck with 1 or 2 AFKers not getting kicked in a lot of matches I play and I’m sure a lot of you are too.

The second issue I’d like to address are the High level players.
People complain about it so much that it just silly. Level only means how much you’ve played this particular game. A lot of the people I play with aren’t the same level as me but still have waaaaaaaay better aim then I do.

Sure I’m lvl 70-something, does make me good? No…
My aim is pretty average at 27-30% hits on most of the weapons.
Because I classify myself as an average player I join the non-level restricted public games. The only advantages I have over low level players is: knowing the maps better, the trick jumps and that it’s an objective based game - not a camp session.

The Truth:
The balancing fails because of AFKers and leavers, for the most part anyway.
Sure, sometimes your team doesn’t leave and you wish they did because of how useless they are… but the unbalanced matches usually start with AFKers and/or leavers. Either at the start or mid-game. People vote shuffle 30-60 seconds into the match, complaining about the balance not noticing 2 of their players are AFK. Funnily enough they never seem to vote yes on the systems auto vote kicks though.

Even the matchmaking tests fail because of this. The moment someone leaves you’re pretty much screwed because no one can join a match in progress, I even lost a match with 6vs5 though so that’s saying something as well. During the last test I played as many matches as I could and ended up with a lot of the same (high level) people over and over again but also losing over and over again. It still needs a lot of work so don’t get your hopes up for it any time soon.

The second part of the balancing is Team Play.
Many low level players want to play a sniper and can’t aim well. They don’t help with the objectives in the game either, they just camp those corners way in the back. Being completely useless, people like that give the Vassili’s and Aimee’s a bad name.
You DON’T WIN the match with snipers but you LOSE the match with snipers.

Same with Phantom. Everyone just runs around with a katana trying to melee and 9/10 players fail at so hard they are being useless for the team.

No ammo, no heals, no revives… we all know these things all too well. We ask for ammo and the lvl 3 Skyhammer just walks away. We follow him, knife him, spam voice chat, use the actually chat and still no ammo. Some people give them so much abuse that it logical they don’t return to the game after that.

Same goes for the people playing with 4-5 snipers on their team, quickly lose and then complain about the balance. You won’t destroy the EV with 7 medics on your team neither will you win a match if half your team only camps those corners.

It’s a team effort, you are only as good as your team. The high levels may look scary but we don’t have godmode or aimbots… We just play A LOT of Dirty Bomb :]

Possible fix:
Remove the auto vote kick and just let the system kick them instantly instead.
Fixes my frustration with my team and doesn’t make me switch teams the first chance I get.

Give leavers a penalty of some sort. Either -credits or unable to join a game for xx-minutes.

Make the tutorial mandatory for new players. The game is about team play and they should get used to giving ammo, reviving, healing, planting charges and using air strikes on specific targets.

~Fluffles~

(OwynTyler) #103

[quote=“Wildcard;c-220072”]
Ultimately, yes, it could be improved and I doubt anyone is going to deny that but we need to understand that due to its current design and the state of the game it seems so ineffective since it ends up taking about 2-3 pre-game shuffles (which is what it does when it assigns the starting teams) for it to balance itself out on its own typically (though this only happens if people are willing to not rage-quit and tough it out for that long). The only times I ever see it work out is when I get one of those rare Min20’s, that isn’t horrid, as they stay full most of the time and the games do get balanced eventually and stay that way.

Now some people think this is a myth, and I understand why, but the reason it feels so rare is due to the high amount of skill desparity in the playerbase. That is why I tried to make a point of it being rare, but indeed a real occurance, that is indeed one of the many good reasons it needs a rework of some sort. Overall the point brought up by the OP isn’t a bad one, the current system does need work, but auto-shuffle wouldn’t make things any better. The biggest issue is, after all, that the system is inefficient with the games current state.[/quote]

Btw, about the shuffle… it’s a shuffle, it does not “balance”, it just shuffles (randomly I presume), so ofc it won’t help, and ofc auto-shuffle wouldn’t be a solution. Those few times out of hundreds when the stomping team shred a tear and agreed on the shuffle vote - I remember one such time - teams got shuffled and… nothing changed, cause shuffle assigned pretty much the same due to random, people rofl’d and went on with the stomping.

Yes they do… kinda:

  • those damn snipers with felix always oneshot-headshotting you in the head to death.
  • those damn naders always oneshotting your with their spammable oneshot-nades right in the face (if you’r not a Rhino)
  • and ofc those damn flying butterflies jumping around on every wall till they reach the roof (or the sky) while shooting you and while you can’t aim at them well due to their fly-speed
(tominatorx) #104

[quote=“Owyn;c-220079”]
Yes they do… kinda:

  • those damn snipers with felix always oneshot-headshotting you in the head to death.
  • those damn naders always oneshotting your with their spammable oneshot-nades right in the face (if you’r not a Rhino)
  • and ofc those damn flying butterflies jumping around on every wall till they reach the roof (or the sky) while shooting you and while you can’t aim at them well due to their fly-speed[/quote]

How so? Everyone can buy whichever merc they want. Sure higher lvl players have more choice but in the end you can only have 3 mercs at the same time in your squad. You can always buy Nader as your first merc (wouldn’t recommend it though). If you don’t spend your starting credits immediately you’ll quickly have 50000 credits.

Yes, the people that have played the game for a longer time, have more experience with the same merc but you can’t really say it’s unfair since they have the exact same merc to play with as the lower lvl player.

It would be unfair if a merc like Nader (e.g.) was gated behind a certain lvl. So for instance you can only play that merc if you reached lvl 15 or 20. That would be unfair. Because that way only players with a higher lvl would be able to play that merc.

In the end if a low lvl player uses Nader, he/she can just as easily oneshot the high lvl player and vice versa.

(Fluffles) #105

[quote=“Owyn;c-220079”][quote=“Wildcard;c-220072”]
Yes they do… kinda:

  • those damn snipers with felix always oneshot-headshotting you in the head to death.
  • those damn naders always oneshotting your with their spammable oneshot-nades right in the face (if you’r not a Rhino)
  • and ofc those damn flying butterflies jumping around on every wall till they reach the roof (or the sky) while shooting you and while you can’t aim at them well due to their fly-speed[/quote]
  1. Snipers will be snipers… Some have good aim and others can’t hit a wall even if they tried.
  2. Nader’s grenades do 90 damage if I’m not mistaken, 5 of the 19 mercs have 90 hp or less so your statement is incorrect.
  3. The trick jumps are something that comes with practise or youtube. Either way it is part of the gameplay and hitting targets that move/jump is something that belongs in DB. You are supposed to dodge bullets after all…
(OwynTyler) #106

yea… like 5 of the most played mercs - proxy, kira, sparks etc, not everyone plays Rhino you know (he’s not pretty)

ofc your points are “correct” - everyone can “BOOM HEADSHOOT!!” 999 people in a row… but it requires skill and expierience - that’s usually exactly what 100lvl+ ppl have and newbie ones don’t.
Do they have the exact same merc? - YES
Are they in fair chances against each other? - NO

(tominatorx) #107

[quote=“Owyn;c-220092”]
Are they in fair chances against each other? - NO[/quote]

YES, because they have the exact same merc at their disposal. You can’t blame the other player for being more experienced.

  • Like @Fluffles said, it’s not like the high lvl players use aimbots or anything. They often have a similar accuracy as a lvl 8 or 10 player.

They do have an advantage in map knowledge. That’s true. But if it’s a face to face fight, it’s as fair as it can get.

If they flank the low lvl player, that’s something else, because that could be due to the limited knowledge of the newer player. But you can’t blame the more experienced players for that. They had to learn all the flanking routes as well. It’s part of the learning process.

(StIwY) #108

[quote=“Fluffles;c-220078”]The Truth:
The balancing fails because of AFKers and leavers, for the most part anyway.

[/quote]

This

[quote=“Fluffles;c-220078”]Possible fix:
Remove the auto vote kick and just let the system kick them instantly instead.
Fixes my frustration with my team and doesn’t make me switch teams the first chance I get.

Give leavers a penalty of some sort. Either -credits or unable to join a game for xx-minutes.

[/quote]

…and that too.

(StIwY) #109

[quote=“Owyn;c-220079”]

  • and ofc those damn flying butterflies jumping around on every wall till they reach the roof (or the sky) while shooting you and while you can’t aim at them well due to their fly-speed[/quote]

I agree. Jumps are a part of DB and i’m okay with it, even if i don’t mind to jump around like a frog, but these jump-abusers are unbearable . Devs should put some cooldown time after too many jumps in a row. Right now seems a mechanic for kiddos to me.

How many times some noob opponent saved his a$$ with a very low HP just because some random jumps ? Is it fair ? I don’t think so, especially if you already did some headhots to them…but no…they jump behind you and kill with sword or shotgun or mine or grenade…gg

(GatoCommodore) #110

[quote=“diabolicalZuchinni;c-220098”][quote=“Owyn;c-220079”]

  • and ofc those damn flying butterflies jumping around on every wall till they reach the roof (or the sky) while shooting you and while you can’t aim at them well due to their fly-speed[/quote]

I agree. Jumps are a part of DB and i’m okay with it, even if i don’t mind to jump around like a frog, but these jump-abusers are unbearable . Devs should put some cooldown time after too many jumps in a row. Right now seems a mechanic for kiddos to me.

How many times some noob opponent saved his a$$ with a very low HP just because some random jumps ? Is it fair ? I don’t think so, especially if you already did some headhots to them…but no…they jump behind you and kill with sword or shotgun or mine or grenade…gg
[/quote]

you know when they start frog jumping they will have to go down in order to jump again right?

backpedal a bit then fire away.

the advantage of frogjumping is to not get the head of the player hit while having a nice view at enemy’s head. But if you backpedal, or run away the enemy would lost its advantage on frogjumping since the enemy head arent on a nice view anymore

(tominatorx) #111

Absolutely right. Also after a while most of these people get quite predictable with their frog jumping. Backing off while firing at them usually works perfectly.

(Nail) #112

“How many times some noob opponent saved his a$$ with a very low HP just because some random jumps ? Is it fair ? I don’t think so, especially if you already did some headhots to them…but no…they jump behind you and kill with sword or shotgun or mine or grenade…gg”

you get outflanked and gutted like a fish, and HE is the noob ?
lol

(GatoCommodore) #113

[quote=“tominatorx;c-220180”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-220147”]

you know when they start frog jumping they will have to go down in order to jump again right?

backpedal a bit then fire away.
[/quote]

Absolutely right. Also after a while most of these people get quite predictable with their frog jumping. Backing off while firing at them usually works perfectly.[/quote]

hell they didnt go walljumping, they just jump right and left.

#walljumpingMasterRace

(tominatorx) #114

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-220230”]
hell they didnt go walljumping, they just jump right and left.

#walljumpingMasterRace[/quote]

Now I’m wondering, was there ever a thread in which someone was complaining about the walljumping? Because that would be hilarious. :smiley:

(arolust) #115

I find the majority of the time the biggest balance issue isnt leavers, afkers, or even shuffles…its bad players.

Often I find my team getting destroyed because they wont camp, or camp properly they leave the damn EV/Generator or never go defend it to start with. That or I find the entire team pretty much died while more than half the enemy team is running around…

At those points, if my team is being smashed, being railroaded, bulldozered, less than half the points of the other team, or what ever you want to call it then I shuffle/restart map.

If the vote fails I leave, our team was being destroyed, we cant defend/attack properly, and no one seems to give any **cks, at that point what reason is there to stay?

(The_N00Ba) #116

The practice.

To me…

Being skilled includes knowing how to work with what ever you are given. The best know how to use the worst.

The problem I usually see is bad team work not bad players. Even “bad” players in the right situations can own “good” players. It just depends on the team work.

I say this based on the amount of games I have seen a team of higher level “more skilled” players get crushed by “lower level” players. I think it was the teamwork that decided those matches not just the individual players. :slight_smile:

(Szakalot) #117

then again, sometimes youre just surrounded by clueless potatoes. choice is to carry tryhard or trololol

(StIwY) #118

[quote=“Nail;c-220216”]“How many times some noob opponent saved his a$$ with a very low HP just because some random jumps ? Is it fair ? I don’t think so, especially if you already did some headhots to them…but no…they jump behind you and kill with sword or shotgun or mine or grenade…gg”

you get outflanked and gutted like a fish, and HE is the noob ?
lol
[/quote]

(i’m not talking about phantoms). Someone is about to die then start to jump randomly…wowow…skillzz there. It’s a cheap way to avoid death.

As i said, the mechanic of jumps should have some cooldown.

(Szakalot) #119

‘someone is about to die, then they start to dodge your headshots’ such skill there!
or ‘someone is about to die, but then they kill you first’ such skill there

(GatoCommodore) #120

[quote=“diabolicalZuchinni;c-220313”][quote=“Nail;c-220216”]“How many times some noob opponent saved his a$$ with a very low HP just because some random jumps ? Is it fair ? I don’t think so, especially if you already did some headhots to them…but no…they jump behind you and kill with sword or shotgun or mine or grenade…gg”

you get outflanked and gutted like a fish, and HE is the noob ?
lol
[/quote]

(i’m not talking about phantoms). Someone is about to die then start to jump randomly…wowow…skillzz there. It’s a cheap way to avoid death.

As i said, the mechanic of jumps should have some cooldown.[/quote]

it does have a cooldown.
when you jump 2 times the movement speed and the jump are penalized to the point of you looked like only jump 10 cm off the ground.

also, using the in-game mechanic that is intended to be in the game isnt exactly cheap.

its like 2 swordsman were given a sword and a pistol then after the duel begins one of the swordsman used the pistol to kill the other.

then the other swordsman said “but…youre a swordsman!”
not using available resources is just stupid