Team auto-balance? huh, does it even exist??

(GatoCommodore) #81

we have kandyrew and other YT people and it still seemed the newbies are coming into the game just to play vasilli. Hell, i kinda miss proxy now

(OwynTyler) #82

Daily stomps & spawn camp INC reporting:



it’s just from an hour of play or so, like every 2nd or 3rd game is highly unbalanced from my expierience (stomps, spawncampings, [lvl 100500+, lvl 50, lvl 40, lvl 30, VS lvl 1,5,8,10 guys])

(tominatorx) #83

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-219945”]@tominatorx the thing is they get vasilli from 30k bonus credit, they just play aura then put down health station without shooting anything.

these kids came from games and youtube video showing “vasilli” “Boom, Headshot”

and no, whats giving them a more reason to quit is when they get sniped by enemies and they cant shoot back because they are shite at shooting in the first place then they spread false rumor about how many cheater in the game aimbotting him.

do you prefer peer pressure or the one i mentioned above? [/quote]

So you’re saying that people who can’t hit anything with Vassili will continue playing with him even though they don’t like it?

I don’t know about you, but that souds ridiculous to me. What they are probably trying to do is getting better with him. But then someon feels the need to decide for him that he shouldn’t be playing Vassili via shaming him… What is the worst I’m wondering… being a bad Vassili player that is still learning the game or being a bad person towards someone because of the mer he/she chooses…

I think I know the answer to that tbh. Honestly in pub matches I don’t care what merc they choose. If all my teammates want to go Vassili then fine… We will lose and they themselves will realise that the team composition wasn’t good. I’d rather have a full team of bad Vassili players then a team in which one person feels the need to shame someone from the team (especially if they use a mic).

I find it funny how you are saying that they will go onto forums and start saying that everyone cheats in the game.

  1. Most people will look at how long the player has played the game. In the case of a steam review people will look at the amount of time that player has played. If it’s not much, let me tell you people will ignore that review on Steam (I know I do).

  2. What if that player for instance posts a steam review in which he/she says that the game has a poisonous community?

Cheating is something new players can be wrong about since they haven’t fully grasped the concept of how the game is meant to be played. But a poisonous community… everyone can see when a community is poisonous. The amount of hours don’t matter then because that has nothing to do with being more expereinced with the game or not.

Fact is no matter what you say about your use of shaming, the fact remains that you made that match experience for that player worse by starting to shame him. Making his experience worse, which could lead to a negative idea about the community of the game. Which could then lead to a negative opinion about the game.

(GatoCommodore) #84

@tominatorx

>So you’re saying that people who can’t hit anything with Vassili will continue playing with him even though they don’t like it?

they like it, alot. Most of these guys came from CSGO and want to “try to play with the AWP in this game because i play with AWP a lot in CSGO”

>I find it funny how you are saying that they will go onto forums and start saying that everyone cheats in the game

>1) Most people will look at how long the player has played the game. In the case of a steam review people will look at the amount of time that player has played. If it’s not much, let me tell you people will ignore that review on Steam (I know I do).


hell, he even said people who use founders pack are cheating. Definetly looking at the steam fly hour tho amirite?

>2) What if that player for instance posts a steam review in which he/she says that the game has a poisonous community?

i dont say f*ck yer mom or im gonna find where you live and im gonna r*pe you.
hell, even when its not me doing the shaming other people already started doing it out of incentive of their own

>Cheating is something new players can be wrong about since they haven’t fully grasped the concept of how the game is meant to be played.

thats why i “encourage” people to play Aura and Skyhammer first, if they were on level 7 and bought vasilli i bet my arse they gonna use it 24/7 trying for mlg noscope master and those “Boom, Headshot” like the frag videos amirite?

>The amount of hours don’t matter then because that has nothing to do with being more expereinced with the game or not

“In the case of a steam review people will look at the amount of time that player has played. If it’s not much, let me tell you people will ignore that review on Steam (I know I do).”

bam, its your own word.

>Fact is no matter what you say about your use of shaming, the fact remains that you made that match experience for that player worse by starting to shame him.

the fact is his performance ruins others game experience just because he insisted on playing sniper and not wanting to learn because “this is just a f2p game duh!” is pretty damning.

>Which could then lead to a negative opinion about the game.
my first crew stopped playing the game because when they are playing solo the kiddies kept picking vasilli or proxy and get 2/11 or 0/20.

(GatoCommodore) #85

just to make it even more clear, we get these newbies saying certain people cheating and stuff. Instead of reporting it they send it to forum or saying “the anti cheat is clearly not working”.

its meme thread like that that made me come back to laugh at it.

also, other meme thread you will likely to find:
Nerf Shotgun
Nerf Proxy
Nerf Proxy Mine
Nerf Fletcher (dead horse)
Nerf auto sniper
Dirty Bomb is dying
Im retiring from dirty bomb (just to come back a month later)
Im retiring from dirty bomb (click bait style)

(tominatorx) #86

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-219974”]@tominatorx

>So you’re saying that people who can’t hit anything with Vassili will continue playing with him even though they don’t like it?

they like it, alot. Most of these guys came from CSGO and want to “try to play with the AWP in this game because i play with AWP a lot in CSGO”

>I find it funny how you are saying that they will go onto forums and start saying that everyone cheats in the game

>1) Most people will look at how long the player has played the game. In the case of a steam review people will look at the amount of time that player has played. If it’s not much, let me tell you people will ignore that review on Steam (I know I do).


hell, he even said people who use founders pack are cheating. Definetly looking at the steam fly hour tho amirite?

>2) What if that player for instance posts a steam review in which he/she says that the game has a poisonous community?

i dont say f*ck yer mom or im gonna find where you live and im gonna r*pe you.
hell, even when its not me doing the shaming other people already started doing it out of incentive of their own

>Cheating is something new players can be wrong about since they haven’t fully grasped the concept of how the game is meant to be played.

thats why i “encourage” people to play Aura and Skyhammer first, if they were on level 7 and bought vasilli i bet my arse they gonna use it 24/7 trying for mlg noscope master and those “Boom, Headshot” like the frag videos amirite?

>The amount of hours don’t matter then because that has nothing to do with being more expereinced with the game or not

“In the case of a steam review people will look at the amount of time that player has played. If it’s not much, let me tell you people will ignore that review on Steam (I know I do).”

bam, its your own word.

>Fact is no matter what you say about your use of shaming, the fact remains that you made that match experience for that player worse by starting to shame him.

the fact is his performance ruins others game experience just because he insisted on playing sniper and not wanting to learn because “this is just a f2p game duh!” is pretty damning.

>Which could then lead to a negative opinion about the game.
my first crew stopped playing the game because when they are playing solo the kiddies kept picking vasilli or proxy and get 2/11 or 0/20.[/quote]

So those pictures… what do they say… someone thinks everyone uses cheats… And how many people agree with that statement… exactly 0. Also how many under lvl 10 players does Dirty Bomb have? And how many start complaining about cheats… There are always stubborn people that can’t accept the fact that they played a bad match… they are in every MP game.

Again what I said is that cheating is not as easily detectable if you are a new player. While people that are shaming others are pretty obvious… So I don’t really get why you say “bam your own word”… tbh…

Also, the fact remains that Dirty Bomb is skill based. People will have to learn things. Vassili is probably one of the harder mercs to play with for a new player. If they want to try it… let them do it. The CSGO people you are talking about are usually quite competitive so I honestly find it hard to believe that those people will continue playing as Vassili if they notice they don’t get better at playing as Vassili.

Any player should have the opportunity to choose whichever merc they want to play without other people shaming them. Whether you like it or not. And that’s the end of it. If you think you can decide for someone else what they want to play… fine… do whatever you like… I can only say I hope that there aren’t many other players who do the same thing because that would have a negative effect on the amount of new players that will be willing to play more.

(OwynTyler) #87

[quote=“tominatorx;c-219984”]I can only say I hope that there aren’t many other players who do the same thing because that would have a negative effect on the amount of new players that will be willing to play more.
[/quote]

To be fair - 1\3 games being stuck around your spawnpoint is a bigger game-killer than just bad words in the chat.

(The_N00Ba) #88

The thing is you can’t really balance negativity or self interested people. Rude people will still be rude no matter what you try to do. It is there choice. As it is the individuals choice to give up and allow themselves to go hallow. yes that is a reference to Dark Souls.

(GatoCommodore) #89

@tominatorx

i think youre not that long in the forum yet, we have the occasional “Cheaters everywhere” thread made by some low levels.

Also, nobody agrees to it because mostly people in here are post level 10+ who are learning the game.

under level 10? Plenty in DB. Forever under level 10? even more plenty (e.g. quitters)

>Again what I said is that cheating is not as easily detectable if you are a new player. While people that are shaming others are pretty obvious… So I don’t really get why you say “bam your own word”… tbh…

what im saying is people with small flight hour on DB, their comments on the game has no merit. You said it yourself, before you deny it by saying hours dont mean experience, then you said it.

Vassili is probably one of the harder mercs to play with for a new player.

thats why they give you a good merc like Skyhammer and Aura to play first, So people learn about the map, abilities, but still being useful to the team and not hindering the current players that are trying to have fun.

The CSGO people you are talking about are usually quite competitive so I honestly find it hard to believe that those people will continue playing as Vassili if they notice they don’t get better at playing as Vassili.


for the duration since i started playing DB since october 2015 i can tell you that most of CSGO Xx_MLG 360noscopePussiCrusher_xX players fights like a coward, abandon teammate, and generally irritating.
hell, most of them are kids that coming to DB because it looks cartoony and
“Its an Overwatch Clone”

Any player should have the opportunity to choose whichever merc they want to play without other people shaming them.

Any player should have the opportunity to not get his game ruined just because 1 vasilli run away from the bomb visual range and it got defused. Any player should have the opportunity to not get hindrance from their own teammate.

ive been advocating for vasilli to be priced at 50K, just to make it harder to be accessed by kiddies who want to play AWP “Boom,Headshot” that quits just after they discover sniping is not as easy as in other games. hell, i even asked to lock up some mercs until they are in level 20+ because at level 10 snipers are basically using their “ive been playing CSGO” argument to justify playing sniper like shite.

[quote=“Owyn;c-219986”][quote=“tominatorx;c-219984”]I can only say I hope that there aren’t many other players who do the same thing because that would have a negative effect on the amount of new players that will be willing to play more.
[/quote]

To be fair - 1\3 games being stuck around your spawnpoint is a bigger game-killer than just bad words in the chat.
[/quote]

10x this

wouldnt it be better if you shout at your kids so that your kids dont end up becoming a coward and get spawn camped?

(The_N00Ba) #90

I have found negativity only breeds more negativity. The more it is spread the quicker every one sinks into the sand.

I personally have found a child will only become a coward if they choose to be. People can be as negative or as positive as they wish to be to the child. In the end I find nobody has any real control over how the child chooses to develop. The child’s feelings are their own.

Only by choosing to pick themselves up after they are beaten down will they grow and push forward stronger than before.

Sadly not every child can does this when the pressures around them are too great.

I had a friend who committed suicide in part due to constant peer pressure. He was barely a decade old.

That is one of the main reasons why I try to avoid putting people down. I never know when the one time I do will be the the last time some one can handle it. Then they are gone.

(tominatorx) #91

@sweetColumn

“i think youre not that long in the forum yet, we have the occasional “Cheaters everywhere” thread made by some low levels.”

November 2015… And the people you are talking about, are the ones I call stubborn. They are just a fraction of the new low lvl players. And in some cases I can’t blame them like for example when the kill cam shows you being shot through a wall or another solid object then yeah… you might get the impression that the other player is cheating even if it’s not the case.

“To be fair - 1\3 games being stuck around your spawnpoint is a bigger game-killer than just bad words in the chat.”

Hmm… I see… This can mean 2 things when someone says this. Either they think the game is unbalanced and want a better balancing system or they think that the team composition isn’t good.

[quote=“Owyn;c-219952”]Daily stomps & spawn camp INC reporting:



it’s just from an hour of play or so, like every 2nd or 3rd game is highly unbalanced from my expierience (stomps, spawncampings, [lvl 100500+, lvl 50, lvl 40, lvl 30, VS lvl 1,5,8,10 guys])[/quote]

See what I mean? There is a difference between thinking a game is unbalanced because high lvl players are in the other team and thinking a game is unbalanced because of the team composition… Seeing you two post on this forum only shows how different the opinions about balance in the game are.

And still those new players will have to learn it the hard way. If 6 people want to play as Vassili and they get destroyed then it’s their problem. Eventually they will realise that it’s not the way Dirty Bomb is meant to be played. They will realise they need to adapt. They don’t need someone shaming them.

On top of that. If you want your teammates to play as another merc. Suggest it. If you do it in a nice way it usually works (in my experience).

“what im saying is people with small flight hour on DB, their comments on the game has no merit. You said it yourself, before you deny it by saying hours dont mean experience, then you said it.”

I said: a new player can’t so easily detect cheating because they don’t have enough experience… yes. What I also said, was that people will probably look at what more experienced players have to say about cheating, balance, etc.

But experiencing shaming… everyone can experience that, no matter how many hours you’ve played. Think about this for 1 sec. If a new player sees that a player who recently started playing gets shamed by other people, what do you think they do? They would be new as well. Knowing that you might get shamed… I honestly think that this would lead to a more negative influence on the game. It’s something to consider before you start to play a game. If that possible new player thinks that the community is full of people that like to shame others then I think he might reconsider his decission to play Dirty Bomb and never even touch it.

“for the duration since i started playing DB since october 2015 i can tell you that most of CSGO Xx_MLG 360noscopePussiCrusher_xX players fights like a coward, abandon teammate, and generally irritating.”

I haven’t had that experience tbh. Also how do you even know they play a lot of CSGO? Assuming that someone plays GSGO when they pick Vassili as a low lvl player? Guess what I played a bunch of CSGO and I haven’t touched Vassili (nor bought him) during my playtime in Dirty Bomb. I’m well aware that CSGO and Dirty Bomb are a totally different thing. Dirty Bomb allows you to be more aggressive in terms of playstyle. CSGO is slower paced. People are generally more careful in that game. You call it being a coward… I call it “still needing to adapt to the new game”. Playing 100s of hours of CSGO will influence your playstyle which makes adapting to a new game take longer. Especially when it’s a totally different game like Dirty Bomb.

Make Vassili a 50000 credit merc. Yes I’ve been thinking the same for some time now. Then they can’t buy him straight away and they will have to play as other mercs first. That was indeed something I forgot to mention in my previous comment. That’s something I actually agree on.

“hell, i even asked to lock up some mercs until they are in level 20+ because at level 10 snipers are basically using their “ive been playing CSGO” argument to justify playing sniper like shite.”

That goes a bit too far imo. That would be frustrating for players that they can’t play a merc until they have a certain lvl reached. That’s the worst kind of locking things for players. It’s basically saying: “you can’t make a decission on your own, we’ll do it for you”.

Also then you would have lvl 20 players who are terrible at playing as Vassili. Vassili is a merc you need experience with by practicing a lot. Whether you start at lvl 10 or lvl 20, you are still going to see the same problems. When players see a lvl 20 player they think that person has some experience but then they would see he/she picks Vassili and the same thing as what is happening now at lower lvls would happen. With on top of that the fact that you can’t go to a min. lvl 10 server to escape from some of those players because they are already above lvl 10.

“wouldnt it be better if you shout at your kids so that your kids dont end up becoming a coward and get spawn camped?”

Again let them experience it the hard way. By them losing the match. You learn a lot more from that than someone who likes to shame you because you want to try out a merc or you want to get good at a merc.

(GatoCommodore) #92

@tominatorx

then what happen when 6 vasilli and im playing alone with skyhammer then they blame me for not doing the objective…

surely they must experience it themselves amirite?

Also how do you even know they play a lot of CSGO? Assuming that someone plays GSGO when they pick Vassili as a low lvl player?

oh geez i dont know maybe looking at their steam profile?

do you know how i know they are cowards? they dont want to push.

do you know whats easier to do to erase all of this problem and make me stop shaming those poor witted kiddies?
Make in-game playstyle book for each mercs and how to use their ability. Then write
“ADVANCED MERC, DIFFICULTY: HARD” for the mercs like Vasilli, Aimee, Sparks

considering how these kids only want to play easy they will avoid playing it in early stage.

(OwynTyler) #93

Nope I don’t see it, cause I mean both things by that. If players were better composited around teams - they would composite their teams better because they would be ~equally expierienced players with some team composition skills present. So both teams would have eg. 1 bad vasilii on each and not 2 on the same team, and 2 good role-gap-filling player on each team, not 4 or 3 on the same one making it a big balance difference.

Oh, that’s quite a common thing:

  • usually when a lvl 100+ comes into a server with 1-7 lvl guys only and annihilates everyone
    even I join the shaming then asking if this is how he got to the lvl 100+ - by beating children?
(tominatorx) #94

[quote=“Owyn;c-220024”]
Nope I don’t see it, cause I mean both things by that. If players were better composited around teams - they would composite their teams better because they would be ~equally expierienced players with some team composition skills present. So both teams would have eg. 1 bad vasilii on each and not 2 on the same team, and 2 good role-gap-filling player on each team, not 4 or 3 on the same one making it a big balance difference. [/quote]

So that’s why you explicitly mentioned lvls… right. And not team composition. Interesting.

[quote=“Owyn;c-220024”]

Oh, that’s quite a common thing:

  • usually when a lvl 100+ comes into a server with 1-7 lvl guys only and annihilates everyone
    even I join the shaming then asking if this is how he got to the lvl 100+ - by beating children?[/quote]

The question is not how many people do it, the question whether you should do it or not…

(tominatorx) #95

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-220021”]@tominatorx

then what happen when 6 vasilli and im playing alone with skyhammer then they blame me for not doing the objective…

surely they must experience it themselves amirite?
[/quote]

In the 180 hours I’ve played Dirty Bomb, I can safely say that maybe happened twice. Usually they either blame the whole team or it’s someone complaining about the fact that a low lvl player tries to play as Vassili…

So yeah the amount of people complaining about the fact that somebody is playing Vassili is way higher than the thing you just mentioned.

(GatoCommodore) #96

[quote=“tominatorx;c-220029”][quote=“sweetColumn;c-220021”]@tominatorx

then what happen when 6 vasilli and im playing alone with skyhammer then they blame me for not doing the objective…

surely they must experience it themselves amirite?
[/quote]

In the 180 hours I’ve played Dirty Bomb, I can safely say that maybe happened twice. Usually they either blame the whole team or it’s someone complaining about the fact that a low lvl player tries to play as Vassili…

So yeah the amount of people complaining about the fact that somebody is playing Vassili is way higher than the thing you just mentioned.
[/quote]

in the 1000+ hours i put in game, if you didnt see it doesnt mean its not there.
and ive been scape goated by these kiddies numerous times being called “noob level 60 cant push the objective” or the classic “level 60 cant carry the game, fake level 60”

the amount of people complaining about bad vasilli has been drying up because many of them either already retired, quit playing dirty bomb or already trancended into level 20

(TheFluffyOne) #97

Is it just me or does it look like this argument isn’t going anywhere. None of the parties show any change of opinions. Can we just agree to disagree?

(tominatorx) #98

[quote=“sweetColumn;c-220043”]
the amount of people complaining about bad vasilli has been drying up because many of them either already retired, quit playing dirty bomb or already trancended into level 20[/quote]

Well in my experience that is absolutely not the case. It gets worse and worse to the point that people don’t dare to play him anymore. I have 2 friends who are actually pretty damn good with Vassili (lvl 18 and lvl 16) but they don’t play him as often anymore since people immediately start judging them because they picked Vassili.

Very nice of those people. So no I will never be saying: “Shaming in Dirty Bomb is great! Everyone should do it!”

Shaming is never the right way to change things. It’s unrespectful, it’s as simple as that. Just like those people that complain on you are also in the wrong. Definitely unrespectful of them.

But you can’t just do the same thing to someone else just because other people do the same thing…

If only everyone would be a bit more respectful towards each other…

(superLobster) #99

[quote=“SnakekillerX;c-218548”]If the game is 2 vs 5 its because your team left after the match had already started, or in the lobby after the game had already assigned teams.

Stay in the lobby after a match ends and you’ll see that the teams get mixed up a bit to try and balance things. Simply leaving at the end of a match and joining another one mid game doesn’t help anything.

[/quote]

pacman77 has heard of this myth about returning to lobby expecting to get a more balanced game the next time, but has so very, very rarely ever experienced it. We must be playing entirely different games because I’m CONSTANTLY paired up with the same exact people in games (good or bad players), and this also makes me put the game down for weeks at a time sometimes just because of it.

([ *O.C.B.* ] Wildcard) #100

Alright, I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread for a while and I feel I might as well put in my two cents on the matter. There have been several valid points made, excluding the random circular arguements that ensued from some of them, but I digress.

First off, there have been good points made and the system we have is far from perfect but it does work. The main issue is that it is a balancing system that is more suited for a game with a larger playerbase and an even spread of skill levels among the players involved. Dirty Bomb is, unfortunately, not in a state that fits into either of those. Skill desparity is huge between long-time veterans of the game to newcomers, and the size of the playerbase is improving but leaves much to be desired.

Ultimately, yes, it could be improved and I doubt anyone is going to deny that but we need to understand that due to its current design and the state of the game it seems so ineffective since it ends up taking about 2-3 pre-game shuffles (which is what it does when it assigns the starting teams) for it to balance itself out on its own typically (though this only happens if people are willing to not rage-quit and tough it out for that long). The only times I ever see it work out is when I get one of those rare Min20’s, that isn’t horrid, as they stay full most of the time and the games do get balanced eventually and stay that way.

Now some people think this is a myth, and I understand why, but the reason it feels so rare is due to the high amount of skill desparity in the playerbase. That is why I tried to make a point of it being rare, but indeed a real occurance, that is indeed one of the many good reasons it needs a rework of some sort. Overall the point brought up by the OP isn’t a bad one, the current system does need work, but auto-shuffle wouldn’t make things any better. The biggest issue is, after all, that the system is inefficient with the games current state.