Spawn Waves

(Dragonji) #101

There is a possibility noone would be interested in playing “the most epic confrontations possible” (which means the game won’t succeed in pro scene). It doesn’t mean I’m against combining innovations with classics. However, in this case the classic spawning system would be the best system as it simply was never a problem in previous games.

(DarkangelUK) #102

So you accuse people of not being able to read and not understand what they’re voting for. That’s not calling people stupid, that’s just being a jackass.

Exactly, invent a problem to justify the idea.

(SockDog) #103

If there is one thing worse than people afraid of change it’s people who demand change for the sake of change and nothing else.

(Dayton_Origin) #104

I think the Devs make a pretty good case here, explaining why the defenders generally spawn one by one and the attackers do spawn in waves.
And quite frankly I have to agree 100% with that argumentation, because it just makes too much sense. And if you played a few missions of DB then you will probably realize quickly, that there is almost no reason why the spawning should be handled differently.
It seems to work pretty well - games (considering you have players on both teams that are about evenly skilled) tend to be rather tense and most wins are close for both sides.

(tokamak) #105

Yes I do, the major flaw in any democracy. I also accuse people of dismissing ideas the moment they hear them without giving them a chance, the major flaw in any think-thank.

(DarkangelUK) #106

There we go folks, none of you can read and none of you understand.

(tokamak) #107

… what you’re voting for.

(Seiniyta) #108

I wouldn’t mind having spawn waves back. Even if the explanation of Smooth is pretty good. When I played W:ET/QW/Brink Pub, I never really had a problem with spawn waves and as long as it’s presented clearly to the players what the current spawntimer is does add a layer of depth to the game whilst not really interfere with casual players.

Spawnwaves however are a real problem if spawncamping is a problem. I remember being spawncamped on goldrush by artillery. The entire team death and the enemy team just pushed to victory easy. I think mods later fixed that problem. (or introduced it. I never really played W:ET vannilla or comp).

(iwound) #109

tokamak, we maybe sticking our heads in the sand and being traditionalists and saying we want it simple.
and the new system could indeed be better for weakening the defense than say something as complicated as a longer spawn wave.
but if anything like that 92% for spawn waves is reflected outside this forum then you have a bigger issue. will it actually put people off.
maybe not for those who try it and dont see any difference or dont care but some will say its too fundamental of a change.
you cant force change on people who dont want it.

it just creates this staggered start for defense so they are always weaker. and you know it.
and it really is not an enjoyable system. as we have been concerned about this since the start.
as a defender you just dont care as your on your own all the time and you know you have no chance of rebuilding that 1st or 3rd barrier because your the only one, or you know you have no chance to stop that ev because your on your own or the data cores are gone because there is no defense because they have no chance of winning the level. that to me is the meat grind, lemming or whatever you might call it.

(DarkangelUK) #110

Seems the whole spawn camping issue that Chris brought up is being looked over quite a bit here.

(shirosae) #111

So I fire up DB yesterday, and when I connect we’re on defence on Waterloo, last objective.

The attackers are all in the objective room, with two people with turrets up by the container door release, on the walkway above the containers, two medics in the room between the defence spawn and objective room flanking the route to the objective, and the rest in the objective room.

Man, it was fun spawning one-by-one into that situation.

Seriouspost: Defence isn’t always defending, and assault isn’t always attacking. Sometime the assault needs to defend ground to let c4 be planted/exploded, and sometimes the defence needs to assault to reclaim ground lost and then defend it to let engineers (for example) in to defuse.

This stuff gets seriously messed up by the lack of spawn waves on the ‘defence’ team.

I don’t think it necessarily needs to be spawn waves in the traditional sense, maybe some irregular spawn wave system, where a spawn wave is triggered 12 seconds (or whatever) after the first death and everyone who dies in that window gets to spawn alongside that player, so you get the same refilling of people, but aren’t spawning people individually.

(.Chris.) #112

It’s a problem I personally find happening a lot on London Bridge when the EV is between barrier 1 and 2, getting picked of from either of the stairs as you come out of the spawn, this is down to the map design also but I personally have nothing against spawn camping as such it’s just when you are spawning alone and facing an enemy who has the jump on you or outnumbers who typically will kill you every time becomes tedious. With spawn waves, spawning alone isn’t going to happen all that often and you have a better chance of surviving any camping with backup, if you were to get killed it would feel more ‘fair’.

I feel as time goes on players will realise more and more how to work the individual spawn system in order to pin down a defence in their spawn. Lets say you change the map design so this is harder to achieve, I reckon it would just move the problem else where, the defence typically come from one direction, the same tactics would probably occur there instead and just be as affective. Obviously with spawn waves the attack uses similar tactics to pin down a defence by learning their spawn time however it’s way more risky and difficult to pull off as a group of players is much harder to pin down than a trickle of players, requiring more of your team to pull off the manoeuvre leaving the objective completers more isolated, however with individual spawns you require less of your team to achieve the same goal giving your objective players more assistance.

EDIT: Agree totally with what shirosae said also.

(Seiniyta) #113

Spawnwaves is fine until spawncamping comes into play. Now it’s not the biggest deal as the AOE damge is relatively limited. But once more AOE weapons are added to the game it can get a problem where an entire wave get’s killed. When it trickles out (together with cooldown/limited ammo) spawncamping becomes less effecient. (you’d rather want the entire spawnwave to be artilliry bombed then a single guy spawning).

(murka) #114

AoE damage is indeed more efficient for spawncamping groups but we don’t have panzerfausts in this game(yet?). Having a trickle of defenders running the same path is easy to take out. A camper has a better position thus he’s more likely to succeed in a 1v1 against a spawning player. When players simply trickle out, you take them one by one. I see no difficulty in it.

(Dayton_Origin) #115

A possible way to counter that might be to auto-deploy some kind of countermeasures at your current spawnpoint. Say some small defence-turrets, that cover your spawning area. Or spawn protection for the players, or auto-deployed radars warning you of intruders near your spawning area. I could imagine something like that, not necessarily preventing spawn camping but making it a lot harder for the enemy team to pin you down effectively.

(iwound) #116

that would be awesome, but tbh youve got no chance of that happenning. firstly you can run through that stuff with no effect, air strike the same.
youd be better off throwing a grumpy cat at the enemy.

whenever i get attacked at spawns i just sit there and let them kill me and go and make a coffee, if hes gone when i get back good if not-> off switch.

(SockDog) #117

Spawn camping? Just release the dogs!

(rookie1) #118

This^^ …still waiting them …:smiley:

(DarkangelUK) #119

2 players being able to take care of trickling enemies seems more of a worry than a group taking care of a wave with high cooldown arty strikes, generally the times that’s been an issue is when the defence only have 1 main exit point (Village, RtCW). 2 guys having to take care of 4/5 players as they spawn at the same time just won’t happen.

(SockDog) #120

Know it! Right now I’d just love SD to chuck in a block that spawns and does this kind of thing to see what it’s like.