[QUOTE=Kendle;432517]Spawn waves are a tried and tested mechanic that’s worked fine for the last 12 years (a bit like wheels that are circular rather than oval), and 90% of people are in favour of retaining them, yet we’re still arguing, after 13 pages? Really?
SD, why have you not yet (re)implemented spawn waves?[/QUOTE]
thats exactly what i think…
everybody wants it. why dont you put it in?!
Yes and I think that’s a valid argument. Individual spawns require a lot of discipline and extra coordination which is lacking in pubs. It may be so that eventually people learn to deal with it but my esteem of the average player is so low that I doubt they will ever get to that point.
I personally despise using console commands during a game which needs me to be focused at doing objectives and shooting ppl. Yes, the spawnwaves have been done and tested for couple of years (that logic annihilates the idea of innovation btw), but they only work in conjunction with “/kill” to benefit most of their sync. Ok, setup games with spawnwaves but disable “/kill”, let’s see how far that goes.
Yes, it was nice and funny and leet to detect spawntimers, have countless pages of script to broadcast timers to your team, selfkill, eventually with a nade up somebody’s arse, have a fdops put that arty right through the ranks (and pride) of the enemy spawning, but I’m all up for getting outside of that comfort zone and aligning with a design which works in itself. Not with the excessive use of “K”.
Man of my word. It makes the game feel very artificial. I understand that back then people took pride in using the mechanics the game handed to them to the limit but now we’re more experienced it simply is preferential to look at more elegant mechanics that take away or lower te need for these ancient artefacts.
In the end stuff like this feels like taking shortcuts to circumvent having to employ real strategy. Now, taking away selfkill itself would be a developmental shortcut which isn’t good either. In the end you want the option to be there but having the player refuse to take it 90% of the times he normally would simply because there are other important things at stake (like power growth per life).
Ofc you can’t remove /kill, even only from the perspective of all the collision traps out there xD. It’s just it becomes a pivotal piece of the meta-game, along with the incentive to hit that spawn marker.
I watched Formula 1 leaning aswell very heavily towards the “meta” part lately, where there’s less racing and more rule / tech tweaking to beat the opponent. I get the same resentment everytime I have to selfkill xD
That’s a really good example yeah.
It’s that necessity that needs to be lowered by rewarding players for staying alive.
but does staying alive although mean I have to be rewarded?
Why should one be rewarded for idling around and avoiding firefights. You should get rewarded for playing WITH your team, not for doing your one-man-show.
Respawning is an important element in those games. So we need waves. And it is 90:10. so any discussion is pointless.
That’s the downside. Loads of us here are guilty of it too 
There’s pluses for /kill though. It lets a defending team take risks and push out to cap a spawn flag or lay in ambush in the knowledge they can get back in time if needs be. Without /kill this would often be too risky. In this respect at least it makes for a more interesting and tactically varied game. Of course there’s the obvious teamplay benefits too which have been mentioned already. I also like having to make the call whether to /kill and spawn with the team or push on as you are. Take out the spawn raping and RTCW and ET were both better games in terms or teamplay and tactics for having /kill.
Thing is, even if you /kill in time you get penalised every time just not as much as if you had to wait 15-20s, each time you /kill you end up back at the spawn area which is not where the objective is, that is a penalty, don’t make it out that it isn’t. Also the argument about using console commands for gain isn’t applicable now in regards to selfkill, it’s bound to k by default an in the options menu to rebind, it’s an actual feature now.
If I remember correctly the spawn timer scripts were only possible in ET, I don’t remember them in ET:QW, they prevented you from making complex binds and scripts there, I’m sure they can do the same with unreal?
The “console commands” was a metaphor, it is meant to describe actions that alter the state of the game entities independently of the gameplay itself, which is to spawn, pewpew and kill or get killed. I fully understand the importance of “K”, i just wish we’d just come up with something that involves less using it.
We really do need the spawn times NOW. It will also require a lot of time to get them well balanced. So the earlier we start, the better. Furthermore, you can’t really judge tactics in scrims without them.
Still I can’t understand why such essential features aren’t in yet, since the alpha testing is running for a good while.
In many situations it’s next to no penalty as you get full hp, free ammo and a class switch.
It’s just not the way I want to see the game being played. It simply takes a lot more resourcefulness from the player if selfkill wasn’t such a favourable choice that often.
The ammo or health is never the reason to /kill though - it’s all about spawning with your team or being able to fall back quickly. These would be sorely missed.
I don’t mind to have spawn waves or not because most maps are small + you don’t have forward spawns/hosts and also healthregen/ammo stations. When you /kill at stopwatch mode you only losing time in this game?
Maps are huge in my mind! Maybe they loop around in a circle and that is why they are “small” but the time frame and length of them is massive to me 
Have to make sure I have a couple protein shakes, ice cold water bottles and sweat bands for the workout I get running all over these maps for hours on end!
We’re not arguing to take away self-kill as the alternative would be players doing all kinds of shenanigans to get themselves killed in other ways.
What I’d like to see is more benefit in staying alive, giving an incentive not to reach for that K key so easily.
That’s a tough one then. I’m not a fan of kill streak bonuses or something that effects basic skills. You mean something like the more people you revive in a single life the more health they revive with etc?
[QUOTE=Rex;432633]We really do need the spawn times NOW. It will also require a lot of time to get them well balanced. So the earlier we start, the better. Furthermore, you can’t really judge tactics in scrims without them.
Still I can’t understand why such essential features aren’t in yet, since the alpha testing is running for a good while.[/QUOTE]
We appreciate you guys are super keen on this issue but I don’t think we feel it’s quite as urgent an issue compared to some other work, that’s why it’s been a lower priority for us. That doesn’t mean we don’t think they need looking at though and we are discussing some ideas.
The initial feeling is that we’re likely to go back to spawn waves on both sides, but only in Stopwatch. We’ll see how it plays there first before we consider it for Objective mode.
[QUOTE=Anti;432667]
The initial feeling is that we’re likely to go back to spawn waves on both sides, but only in Stopwatch. We’ll see how it plays there first before we consider it for Objective mode.[/QUOTE]
:stroggflag::stroggbanana:
Yay democracy works. Objective completed.
Yay democracy works. Objective completed.[/QUOTE]
As long as that isn’t a PR statement to calm the waters an we never see it