Spawn times

(fubar) #41

merc avi :stuck_out_tongue:

(AsKo_) #42

i like that potty wants to get something going in the comp scene and nail down some rules.
but personally i dont think this is really possible yet since there is still alot of balancing needed.

still wanna leave my general thoughts:
-i think the most important point is to find a spawntime system that fits both comp and casual. if you divide the community from the beginning youre gonna have a hard time. you could also see this on et , comp could still be alot more active if there wasnt this big gap between etpro and pub mods.
-in my opinion defenders NEED to have a larger spawntime than attackers. it needs to be more risky for them to go all rambo and risk a full.
this also gives the attackers a good chance to get defenders out on full and open the defence a bit.
-dont start with stuff like ,adjusting spawntimes, or super wierd st like 16 or 21 seconds. keep it easy.

(shaftz0r) #43

[QUOTE=AsKo_;500065]i like that potty wants to get something going in the comp scene and nail down some rules.
but personally i dont think this is really possible yet since there is still alot of balancing needed.[/QUOTE]

completely agree. the fact that people are pining about it kind of makes my brain hurt, not that i dont understand completely, but really. this is far from a finished product.

[QUOTE=AsKo_;500065]
-i think the most important point is to find a spawntime system that fits both comp and casual. if you divide the community from the beginning youre gonna have a hard time. you could also see this on et , comp could still be alot more active if there wasnt this big gap between etpro and pub mods.[/QUOTE]

the mods are the only thing that have kept the game alive at all.

(AsKo_) #44

[QUOTE=shaftz0r;500068]completely agree. the fact that people are pining about it kind of makes my brain hurt, not that i dont understand completely, but really. this is far from a finished product.

the mods are the only thing that have kept the game alive at all.[/QUOTE]
i agree but my point was : etpro and all other mods were divided since the very early times and in last few years the etpro activity decreased alot while the pub activity was still really huge. alot of pub players never even touched etpro , either because of the douchy community or certain differences. all im trying to say is that maybe you need connect comp and pub more then it happened in et/rtcw if possible.

(montheponies) #45

well just off a frustrating couple of rounds on Trainyard - kill defense, start hack, get killed by respawned def sitting 10s from spawn. coupled to arty and sniper spam which just added to the pish. Two full holds. Terrible.

@ pixel, not to repeat what everyone else has said, but decent spawn times, coupled with the wave mechanic actually removes the meat grind, as you dont have everyone dripping onto the objective.

@ bitey - i’d keep any spawn system simple. 30s def, 20s off. build maps with that in mind and we should see good tense games where the defense is always under pressure.

(Bitey) #46

There is nothing complex about the system I suggested! I’ll explain it quickly and efficiently so that the world will know!!!

Each class adds a set amount of time to the spawn wave the wave contiunes to cycle as normal:

Assult: 5
Fops: 4
Medic: 3
Engi: 3
Sniper: 3

For each GIB/TAP of a class, those deaths will add to the current spawn wave.

Attacker Spawn wave: 15 second Max

Defensive wave: 18 second max

This setup ensures that every death has an actual weight on the board in terms of making mistakes. It also encourages gibbing of enemy players as a side effect of preventing players from spawning.

The entire problem with straight spawn waves is the ease to game the spawn systems as I showcased by the tables and charts. It won’t solve the problem of people not staying dead, instead it just shifts around where a person dies and how long they “Might” have to wait. My other suggestion would be to use the TF2 approach of a broken spawn wave:

18 second spawn

@ 9 seconds all future deaths are put back on 18 seconds spawn wave.

@0 time spawners are placed on 9 second wave.

Anything is better, SUGGEST MORE PEOPLE keep debate going!

http://www.openprocessing.org/sketch/129971

(Rex) #47

:confused: I have no idea what you try to say.

(BomBaKlaK) #48

lol
10 chars

(AsKo_) #49

[QUOTE=Bitey;500101]There is nothing complex about the system I suggested! I’ll explain it quickly and efficiently so that the world will know!!!

Each class adds a set amount of time to the spawn wave the wave contiunes to cycle as normal:

Assult: 5
Fops: 4
Medic: 3
Engi: 3
Sniper: 3

For each GIB/TAP of a class, those deaths will add to the current spawn wave.

Attacker Spawn wave: 15 second Max

Defensive wave: 18 second max

This setup ensures that every death has an actual weight on the board in terms of making mistakes. It also encourages gibbing of enemy players as a side effect of preventing players from spawning.

The entire problem with straight spawn waves is the ease to game the spawn systems as I showcased by the tables and charts. It won’t solve the problem of people not staying dead, instead it just shifts around where a person dies and how long they “Might” have to wait. My other suggestion would be to use the TF2 approach of a broken spawn wave:

18 second spawn

@ 9 seconds all future deaths are put back on 18 seconds spawn wave.

@0 time spawners are placed on 9 second wave.

Anything is better, SUGGEST MORE PEOPLE keep debate going!

http://www.openprocessing.org/sketch/129971[/QUOTE]
no need to reinvent the wheel.
keep it simple

(onYn) #50

Is it possible to ignore someone inside the forums, so that I can´t read his posts?

To not make this offtopic: I think the spawntimes won´t be like this in the end, and probably not for a long time either. It´s probably serves some purpose… I hope ;D

(shaftz0r) #51

i could really care less what they do to pubs honestly, as long as SW is played with set spawn times based on the map themselves. no silly convoluted systems like bitey and a few other have mentioned.

(PixelTwitch) #52

This is the common thread between all the people that just want simply longer spawn timers rather than a system that will work for both.

(shaftz0r) #53

we have a system that will work for both. we’ve been using it for 17 years.

(prophett) #54

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(PixelTwitch) #55

17 years is a very long time and what is acceptable then is not always applicable to what people expect now.

(rline) #56

yeah, and it sucks. use the tf2 spawn system and be done with it.

(shaftz0r) #57

if my expectations revolved around what the masses wanted in any aspect of my life, i should just kill myself now. the vast majority of people play abhorrent games like CoD and warframe. The 2 things that were never broken about rtcw/ET were the maps and spawn system.

i havent played tf2 in years so i have no idea what the system is, but if it isnt a set wave system, i dont see how that would be good for comp at all. im kind of shocked by that reply from you rline. i figured you would be one of the ones that would want set waves

(INF3RN0) #58

[QUOTE=shaftz0r;500297]

i havent played tf2 in years so i have no idea what the system is, but if it isnt a set wave system, i dont see how that would be good for comp at all. im kind of shocked by that reply from you rline. i figured you would be one of the ones that would want set waves[/QUOTE]

He’s not an ET player, so I’m not surprised. I’d like to see a well written post comparing all of the different spawn systems in obj based games before really taking sides here. Of course everyone reverts back to what they know, but I’m sure a reasonable compromise isn’t implausible.

(Bitey) #59

My entire problem with these simplistic systems is how easy it is to determine the flow of a game just by being able to predict a numerical countdown. I’m sorry to say but the current system could easily use some spice. Just because it’s “worked” for 17 years doesn’t detract from why other systems should be considered. You’d never know until you give a different method a chance, and I hate to say but marking it off as “to complex” is just a refusal of understanding. There’s nothing challenging about TF2’s or Dystopia’s setup and I’d be more then happy to hear some other theory-crafted setups.

It’s my personal belief that there needs to be more of a punishment for dying on the field, rather then the luck based spawn timer that’s easy to control. I also think that blaming the map design is an easy way, rather then hashing out a more unique spawn systems. I would push more for the TF2 setup as it’s the easiest to apply and understand at a fundamental level. The main benefits are that it allows you to keep wait times low while making sure that each death/GIB is punished accordingly. It’s not ok that you can currently be killed and have a luck factor which allows you immediately jump back into combat in 5 seconds.

(shaftz0r) #60

its luck in the current system because of a forgiveness where it doesnt matter at all if you tap out on time. i dont even understand the debate personally. whats the point of having a convoluted spawn system? just to “do something different”? controlling the spawn time, knowing how long it takes for your opponent to get to a spot from spawn, knowing when to sit back and when to push ectectect. these are the elements that make competition, competition. without it, its actually the definition of random in comparison.