Ok, second to maps and spread I know this has been raised before, but the current setup of having 20s off/def is turning the games into total grinds, you’re having to kill the same person at least twice to do an objective.
Can’t stress enough how much this influences the playability of the maps.
[QUOTE=montheponies;499410]Ok, second to maps and spread I know this has been raised before, but the current setup of having 20s off/def is turning the games into total grinds, you’re having to kill the same person at least twice to do an objective.
Can’t stress enough how much this influences the playability of the maps.[/QUOTE]
Spawn Times and Maps are funky right now… No Penalty for death!
that’s actually untrue. spawntimes and maps are interlinked.
for example short spawntimes for def can be accommodated if you make travel distance the factor, influencing spawn location, routes and forward spawns.
bit like saying the number of players on a football field doesnt matter until the size of the pitch has been decided…
how do you balance spawn times on maps that arent anywhere near being completed? you can adjust them for the short term, sure, but having the debate and pouring over the stats wont do you any good when you move a wall, or change the spawn points. not to mention that the movement isnt done yet, which drastically affects getting from A to B which in turn would force adjustment of spawn times.
too many variables currently
For the maps that are complete (or near completion) it makes perfect sense to have appropriate spawn times.
I suggest really looking into true spawn wave timers instead of using direct spawn wave countdowns. Either broken wave spawn IE under 9 seconds left, next deaths are placed onto next wave.
Or use some kind of awesome death based spawn timer:
http://www.openprocessing.org/sketch/129971
^ See that for more details.
*Built by twincannon
[QUOTE=shaftz0r;499431]how do you balance spawn times on maps that arent anywhere near being completed? you can adjust them for the short term, sure, but having the debate and pouring over the stats wont do you any good when you move a wall, or change the spawn points. not to mention that the movement isnt done yet, which drastically affects getting from A to B which in turn would force adjustment of spawn times.
too many variables currently[/QUOTE]
You build/design the maps based on the spawn time/mechanics and not the other way around…
Personally I think its more deep seeded than spawn “TIME” and really comes down to spawn “MECHANIC” in this game.
[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;499742]You build/design the maps based on the spawn time/mechanics and not the other way around…
Personally I think its more deep seeded than spawn “TIME” and really comes down to spawn “MECHANIC” in this game.[/QUOTE]
This is obvious (the maps are horrid). But since the current maps most likely won’t be reworked, increasing defensive spawn times is a good solution.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhh wut… its certainly a small thought in the process, but you dont design maps around spawn times. once the map design itself is finished, than you go back and tweak accordingly by adjusting location and time
The problem with what your saying is that normally that results in them having to add “dead space” into the maps.
Sure you always design each map based on that one super cool idea or objective and then build outwards (or inwards). However if you are going to have set spawn times (like mentioned in the state of the game post) you need to know how much space you have to play with. Actually good examples of this include BridgeALT first Attack spawn. The reverse of this is White Chapel final Defense spawn.
I do feel I have worded my first comment (the one you quoted) badly as I do not mean literally build a map AROUND a spawn system. I just mean that one of the main issues with the maps today and the issue with designing new ones is until you nail the concept/time/mechanics and stick to it we are going to see these kinda problems. 
The issue with simply increasing or decreasing spawn times is that it messes with the “luck” factor of the game… Especially in public play and low>mid comp play. This is down to the lack of understanding and using the spawn timer and learning your enemies time. The luck comes in because you could have the worlds best 5man ace and gib all 5 like a boss… but because of the wave timer they are still only down for 5 seconds. On the other side you could get a lucky couple of kills and have them waiting 30 seconds for a respawn.
In the vast majority of players this will cause major frustrations.
In comp play it turns very predictable and also very sloppy at the same time.
Honestly the issue is entirely the length of a spawn wave its the fact you may only be waiting for 5 seconds… increasing the wave time would not reduce that in a worthwhile fashion.
Increasing time = LUCK++++ but only FIX++
On pubs it would be frustrating, but the current design + horrible spawn times make it even more frustrating.
I definitely disagree about comp being sloppy (or lucky) with proper spawn times.
With proper times in stopwatch the whole game revolves around the clock, knowing your times, your enemies times, and which part of the minute is the best time to attack and sometimes, when it’s ok to push out when defending and die.
It’s very calculated and coordinated (with proper times, of course). The current times are what makes it sloppy.
[QUOTE=prophett;499753]On pubs it would be frustrating, but the current design + horrible spawn times make it even more frustrating.
I definitely disagree about comp being sloppy (or lucky) with proper spawn times.
With proper times in stopwatch the whole game revolves around the clock, knowing your times, your enemies times, and which part of the minute is the best time to attack and sometimes, when it’s ok to push out when defending and die.
It’s very calculated and coordinated (with proper times, of course). The current times are what makes it sloppy.[/QUOTE]
That is how the current system is…
I actually want to see a kill triggered spawn timer rather than waves…
That way you keep people dead, remove the luck aspect, reduce pub frustration and keep the timing strats for the teams.
I’m open to trying new things, but that would butcher stopwatch (might as well, most of the best aspects from their previous games have already been removed/butchered).
Actually it adds much more then it takes away…
Basically all it removes is… “Dude our waves up in 5 seconds run out and try and kill em…”
the proposed system would also have the same thing after a team mate gets picked off… Also means that deaths mean so much more then they do currently. However I do understand that people just want it to remain as much like the older games as possible
[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;499750]The issue with simply increasing or decreasing spawn times is that it messes with the “luck” factor of the game… Especially in public play and low>mid comp play. This is down to the lack of understanding and using the spawn timer and learning your enemies time. The luck comes in because you could have the worlds best 5man ace and gib all 5 like a boss… but because of the wave timer they are still only down for 5 seconds. On the other side you could get a lucky couple of kills and have them waiting 30 seconds for a respawn.
[/QUOTE]
Its not luck. You need to build your push a second after enemy’s respawn. so that you force their fulltime-death.