Spawn Camping: Not A Thing Of The Past

(dazman76) #81

I’m sure “tease” is enough to keep many people happy right now :slight_smile: Hell, I’m happier just seeing you back and replying to topics again :slight_smile: heh. Hopefully there’s plenty of good data in these discussions for you guys to be picking over.

(thesuzukimethod) #82

[QUOTE=Exedore;343203]Quite astute.

I’m not trying to explain away CCity’s problems either, though; we know it’s an issue that needs to be solved. Sorry for the tease, but more specifics soon.[/QUOTE]

appreciate the public comments, i hope you realize that most of us express opinions/ideas because we are invested in the game, both in the current form (i find it really fun to play, even with the hiccups) and in whatever improved/expanded form future iterations take

(wolfnemesis75) #83

The devs posted a thread asking feedback on player’s favorite maps. Could be that they are using the feedback and opinions as the basis for how future maps are designed. I tend to like the maps that are large and have some kind of Escort portion. My favorite parts are the Hack and Escort. The HE charge is very challenging, but does come down to readiness. And proper push. Could be that some new maps will reverse the order of objectives to ease the transitions. Maybe future maps will have the HE plant second rather than first portion. So that it feels like more map is being played. Those are just my guesses. I could be wrong.

(Exedore) #84

Of course! There’s even value in the trolling posts, it’s just extracting the issue from the vitriol and trying not to feed them any more in the process. Besides, Badman takes away all my ammoes. :wink:

(Cep) #85

LOL, I am glad to see SD takes an interest, even what its al bout security says lol! j/k

(Zekariah) #86

Thank you for being connected with this thread, Exedore.

I realise “Spawn Camping” may be a slightly inappropriate term for what I’ve been trying to explain, since REAL “Spawn Camping” like in Halo doesn’t even give you chance to take a step.

But I don’t think the term “Choke Point” applys either. Choke Points appear further on in CC that still allow for other routes to be taken.

This “Lockdown” situation that happens at the beginning of CC is its own beast. Let’s call it “Funnelling”, as that’s exactly what is happening to Security if they are not fortunate or organized enough to IMMEDIATELY place down the HE.

Trying to explain this away with Team skill is useless as a lot of people end up playing with only bots on their team and don’t even get a choice in how “organized” or “skilled” their team is.

But this is FANTASTIC if SD are looking into it! There have been some great balancing suggestions in this thread, hopefully playing a part in any changes they may make to the map.

(its al bout security) #87

wana get on the xbox real quick zekeriah i have a tru spawn camp id like to show you real quick

(Exedore) #88

[QUOTE=Zekariah;343596]I realise “Spawn Camping” may be a slightly inappropriate term for what I’ve been trying to explain, since REAL “Spawn Camping” like in Halo doesn’t even give you chance to take a step.

But I don’t think the term “Choke Point” applys either. Choke Points appear further on in CC that still allow for other routes to be taken.

This “Lockdown” situation that happens at the beginning of CC is its own beast. Let’s call it “Funnelling”, as that’s exactly what is happening to Security if they are not fortunate or organized enough to IMMEDIATELY place down the HE.[/QUOTE]
I think the phrase still fits… what you’re pointing out in your 2nd/3rd paragraph is essentially a progressing branch structure, as in for every additional junction progressed to you are adding a huge number of traversal possibilities. Believe me, there are plenty of other things that I would’ve loved to fix in the levels, but the game might not come out Forever… :eek:

It’s a bit of a double-edged sword as well; too many options is initially confusing and daunting, whereas a clear path is far more comfortable… a real challenge when you’re trying to make an SP/Coop/MP hybrid. Let’s just say we definitely learned some lessons there.

(Zekariah) #89

Geez…didn’t realise what I was missing.

Gives a whole new meaning to “balance”…pffff

(its al bout security) #90

ikr. it doesnt really work until you get past the railing so normally you have to run to my right side so i have time to shot gun blast you. my favorite idea was to have 4 light engies get in there and drop turrets and run off XD sadly its security though so meh i mean with five minutes to drop that door theres no point in spawn camping.

btw i found that one out on my own no internet required

(Smoochy) #91

[QUOTE=Exedore;343203]Quite astute.

I’m not trying to explain away CCity’s problems either, though; we know it’s an issue that needs to be solved. Sorry for the tease, but more specifics soon.[/QUOTE]

i think the resistance light is a key cause. if security dont have any light soldiers and resistance have a couple of lights you are screwed as they get to the gate before you, and with the gate obscuring vision its easier for resistance to see a soldier thru the gate and kill him very easily. i guess the 3 body types add all kinds of issues most games do not have.

a new route over the top is the best bet i would suggest.

(Smoochy) #92

[QUOTE=Exedore;343628]I think the phrase still fits… what you’re pointing out in your 2nd/3rd paragraph is essentially a progressing branch structure, as in for every additional junction progressed to you are adding a huge number of traversal possibilities. Believe me, there are plenty of other things that I would’ve loved to fix in the levels, but the game might not come out Forever… :eek:

It’s a bit of a double-edged sword as well; too many options is initially confusing and daunting, whereas a clear path is far more comfortable… a real challenge when you’re trying to make an SP/Coop/MP hybrid. Let’s just say we definitely learned some lessons there.[/QUOTE]

for now concentrate on MP :slight_smile:

try not to cater too much for noobs, they will go basic routes until they learn the maps, hopefully they will follow us more experienced players.

(Smoochy) #93

[QUOTE=HiGHJaCK;343179]thats the reason so many people crying in the forum about the challenge 3 star Be Objective.
I never understood why someone can have problems doing this 3 star challenge.
You read that this only can be done with a new char and there is no chance to do it with lvl 20. But i tell you this are all coward campers trying to clear a area and wonder why the enemys are back 20 seconds later. And exactly this people have problems in every ****ing map because they have no clue how this game is beeing played. Just play public and watch your mates. There is no class balance, 4 snipers and everyone is camping and hiding.

i mostly play with my brother, so we have a soldier and a medic right at the begin of the map.
but when i play solo and try to plant the he charge, there is not one ****ing medic behind me they are selfish hiding behind there spots, selfhealing and do not care one second about the objective.[/QUOTE]

exactly. be objective 3 is really easy if you think about the routes. trying to wipe everyone out on your own isnt going to happen due to quick respawn times. it works on big games with big maps but in brink you have to learn to adapt.

(Jamieson) #94

TAW pretty much did a test of Ccity last night. We had 4 players on each team with 4 other public players. We stacked the defense with some of our better players to ensure a defensive bias.

The result: We got the plant down pretty much striaght away but they disarmed it. They then went for a lock down but our 4 guys pushed out aggresivly and went for the plant the 2nd time. We got it down and they counter attacked. They cleared us out and disarmed it once again.

It took till our 4th plant but we managed to blow the gate up. We then got the bot level till the resistance corner near the spawn when we ran out of time which is not suprising considering how we stacked the teams. The point being like I previously said its pretty much impossible to get stuck on the gate objective even against a better team. The resistance completely failed to spawn camp and prevent us blowing the gate.

The problem is the players not the map. You need to be super aggressive and actually attack the enemy. If ou are already sat in the spawn sniping or just sat there self healing because your scared then your just inviting the other team to camp you. Seriously you have to take risks.

(Exedore) #95

You’re suggesting a bit of a commercial impossibility… for instance, reviewers won’t play the game as much as you all. :wink:
It’s always about finding an effective balance for both, or at least striving for that.

It’s a big reason why we tried to have quite different layout and pacing for the maps overall. Escort maps for instance, end up being structured quite differently to say, Shipyard and Reactor.

(Exedore) #96

:tongue:A favourite of mine is tossing a flashbang over the way up on the right while another is going for the plant…

(Smoochy) #97

[QUOTE=Jamieson;343668]TAW pretty much did a test of Ccity last night. We had 4 players on each team with 4 other public players. We stacked the defense with some of our better players to ensure a defensive bias.

The result: We got the plant down pretty much striaght away but they disarmed it. They then went for a lock down but our 4 guys pushed out aggresivly and went for the plant the 2nd time. We got it down and they counter attacked. They cleared us out and disarmed it once again.

It took till our 4th plant but we managed to blow the gate up. We then got the bot level till the resistance corner near the spawn when we ran out of time which is not suprising considering how we stacked the teams. The point being like I previously said its pretty much impossible to get stuck on the gate objective even against a better team. The resistance completely failed to spawn camp and prevent us blowing the gate.

The problem is the players not the map. You need to be super aggressive and actually attack the enemy. If ou are already sat in the spawn sniping or just sat there self healing because your scared then your just inviting the other team to camp you. Seriously you have to take risks.[/QUOTE]

but as you say, it can take so long you cant do the 2nd push objective…

(suho) #98

[QUOTE=Jamieson;343668]TAW pretty much did a test of Ccity last night. We had 4 players on each team with 4 other public players. We stacked the defense with some of our better players to ensure a defensive bias.

The result: We got the plant down pretty much striaght away but they disarmed it. They then went for a lock down but our 4 guys pushed out aggresivly and went for the plant the 2nd time. We got it down and they counter attacked. They cleared us out and disarmed it once again.

It took till our 4th plant but we managed to blow the gate up. We then got the bot level till the resistance corner near the spawn when we ran out of time which is not suprising considering how we stacked the teams. The point being like I previously said its pretty much impossible to get stuck on the gate objective even against a better team. The resistance completely failed to spawn camp and prevent us blowing the gate.

The problem is the players not the map. You need to be super aggressive and actually attack the enemy. If ou are already sat in the spawn sniping or just sat there self healing because your scared then your just inviting the other team to camp you. Seriously you have to take risks.[/QUOTE]

Yeah that was a really cool game and we almost had you spawn camped, almost :wink:

But yeah, I think that if teams are equally good in terms of skill and dont snipe it is impossible to lock security down in there own spawn area. I think I have said this on a different thread here as well that what it takes is taking risks and being uber-aggressive sometimes.

Especially when you hop onto a Ccity Server and you find yourself in ‘lockdown’. What I nearly always see in such situations is at least one person who picks up a sniper rifle and starts shooting from where the bot is at the beginning and that is to put it mildly: Plain stupid.

If you are being agressively rushing outside you are most probably going to die a lot but there is a small chance that you can take out more than one guy and that already is enough and makes it easier for your next attempt. So keep rushing/pushing/being agressive and probably die a lot but in the end it will work if you are not completely alone in doing so.

Cheers,
[TAW.net] Clonky

(kilL_888) #99

[QUOTE=Exedore;343203]
I’m not trying to explain away CCity’s problems either, though; we know it’s an issue that needs to be solved. Sorry for the tease, but more specifics soon.[/QUOTE]

why dont you just say that you are in fact working on fixing the maps that need to be fixed. its so much easier and understandable. :smiley:

that aside. take a look at 8 res human players against 8 sec bots. bots have no chance on this map. they are spawn raped. that reflects perfectly the imbalance of the spawning area.

#100

Suho makes a good point, your K to D ratio means squat in this game, you get xp that is it. The other thing you do is win or lose.

So charge in, flashbang, lob grenades, molotovs, pump your mates full of adrenaline, spray suppressive fire, slide tackle, all that you can before your life is temporarily extinguished, costing you just a spawn wave, but improving your chance to win!! Stop playing like it is a team death match, it is purely objective based. Your team wins or loses, regardless of your score or Kill to Death ratio. Hard concept to grasp for you lone wolf types, but your individual actions only count if they are helping your team!!! :smiley:

Use Teamwork, be Aggressive, Be Fearless, it is just a game!!! :wink: