I thought spawn camping was meant to be dealt with in the design for Brink.
I realise we are not getting killed as soon as we reappear, but a couple of maps (i.e. Container City, Sec Tower) funnel offensive teams into mow-down territory right around the corner from the spawn point.
Does anyone have secret routes or solutions to this issue? Because getting pinned down is happening more frequently on these maps.
I know.
I do a lot of the pinning.
These maps come down to being prepared, communicating before the match starts, and planning accordingly. It is not an absurd idea on CC just to load up with some Engys and mostly Soldiers to blow the gate. The only time I get trapped on this map is when I join a match where the team is already trapped. Then, its like joining a bunch of chickens running around without heads. Unfortunately, there are too many people who run away from spawn as if its just a standard COD match, forgetting buffs, regrouping, communicating, or what class to choose. When this happens, it will be futile. Sec Tower most difficult part is the ramp. The most effective way to beat it is for the whole team to surround Nechayef and push him to the gate. Most of the times we’ve failed on this map, too many people are spread out and shooting across the map. Even groups of three working together to move up the ramp is more effective than everyone spreading out.
Another problem I’ve been encountering more and more is people thinking respawning rather than waiting for a medic is the way to go. Many times it is better to wait for a medic, especially when they are in route. The game penalizes you for respawing, not just with the distance you are away from the objective, but some more subtle ways. Many people who play need to do a 180 on how they approach Brink. Otherwise, they will get frustrated. I’d say most times it is essential to wait for a revive rather than respawn.
You can’t spawn kill on Security Tower.
These maps come down to being prepared, communicating before the match starts,
Which is a problem. But yeah I agree. I always try to convey to people that they should leave the bot alone as we need everyone on the gate in the first seconds. Never works, but that’s a different thing.
[QUOTE=tokamak;342067]You can’t spawn kill on Security Tower.
Which is a problem. But yeah I agree. I always try to convey to people that they should leave the bot alone as we need everyone on the gate in the first seconds. Never works, but that’s a different thing.[/QUOTE]
Sec tower?
Both security and resistance have a smart route that leads directly into their spawn.
For security its the balcony in front of that broken up bridge.
For resistance its that top spawn in front of the password key objective.
[QUOTE=tokamak;342067]You can’t spawn kill on Security Tower.
Which is a problem. But yeah I agree. I always try to convey to people that they should leave the bot alone as we need everyone on the gate in the first seconds. Never works, but that’s a different thing.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. But if the first wave is thwarted by the resistance,isn’t it better to go with the bot since it provides some cover , if not the most ?
Security tower has so many routes that it gets messy to cover all of them even the sec team wants to camp.
container city happens pretty often. there are only 2 exits and way more positions to actually defend. offense is in constant crossfire. i ask myself why this map could have been approved for release.
security tower has its issues but the chance for the offensive beeing spawn raped is less than container city. there is only one exit though which is even worse.
then there is resort. also very bad for the offensive team. top and bottom exits for offense can both be observed by the top positions of defense. in addition they can hide behind glass cover and can easily kill everyone who tries to push through.
first few times this happens to me i thought… ok, people need to learn the maps and tactics, no big deal. bug it still happens, still on the same maps. worth thing is that it is boring for both sides. its too hard for the offense and too easy for the defense.
this is a clear sign for me that brinks levels are either badly designed or that they are specificly designed for the competetive scene. on pubs there is no communication. im happy when i get my buffs, but most of the time people just run and rush into the battle.
Really you can be spawn camped in ANY level (seen it and done it in CC, Sectower, resort, shipyard, heck almost every level). It comes down to lack of variety when leaving the spawn and lack of tactics to deal with people who are attempting to spawn camp. Couple that with bots that aren’t easy to work with and people stacking sides and you get spawn camping. Otherwise its not too much of a crazy situation to get out of and hard one to get into.
[QUOTE=wolfnemesis75;342066]These maps come down to being prepared, communicating before the match starts, and planning accordingly. It is not an absurd idea on CC just to load up with some Engys and mostly Soldiers to blow the gate. The only time I get trapped on this map is when I join a match where the team is already trapped. Then, its like joining a bunch of chickens running around without heads. Unfortunately, there are too many people who run away from spawn as if its just a standard COD match, forgetting buffs, regrouping, communicating, or what class to choose. When this happens, it will be futile. Sec Tower most difficult part is the ramp. The most effective way to beat it is for the whole team to surround Nechayef and push him to the gate. Most of the times we’ve failed on this map, too many people are spread out and shooting across the map. Even groups of three working together to move up the ramp is more effective than everyone spreading out.
Another problem I’ve been encountering more and more is people thinking respawning rather than waiting for a medic is the way to go. Many times it is better to wait for a medic, especially when they are in route. The game penalizes you for respawing, not just with the distance you are away from the objective, but some more subtle ways. Many people who play need to do a 180 on how they approach Brink. Otherwise, they will get frustrated. I’d say most times it is essential to wait for a revive rather than respawn.[/QUOTE]
HAHAHA u will sPend half the round waiting for a medic trust me I KNO
I think you’re using the experience of playing with friends when you judge this. If you hang back in the spawn to fully buff and prepare - and your communication takes too long - this gives the opposition the perfect opportunity to gain a foothold. They’ll be on the wrong side of the gate, and all over that first area you drive the bot through. They don’t even need to enter your spawn - with support up high on the right flank and just beyond the gate, creating a hold there is pretty easy.
I appreciate your example, but it only applies when absolutely everything falls into place. Just a couple of people not listening is enough to kill the opportunity to break out, and allow your opponents an easy hold in that first area. If you then hang back again long enough to buff, that gives their medics the time to get everyone back on their feet ready for the next suicide rush.
[QUOTE=dazman76;342132]I think you’re using the experience of playing with friends when you judge this. If you hang back in the spawn to fully buff and prepare - and your communication takes too long - this gives the opposition the perfect opportunity to gain a foothold. They’ll be on the wrong side of the gate, and all over that first area you drive the bot through. They don’t even need to enter your spawn - with support up high on the right flank and just beyond the gate, creating a hold there is pretty easy.
I appreciate your example, but it only applies when absolutely everything falls into place. Just a couple of people not listening is enough to kill the opportunity to break out, and allow your opponents an easy hold in that first area. If you then hang back again long enough to buff, that gives their medics the time to get everyone back on their feet ready for the next suicide rush.[/QUOTE]
Not really. There is a warm-up phase where you can plan and you can buff as you are running if you are prepared correctly and you can go to the command post and still make it to the gate to blow it, you just can’t daddle. Also, some of what I said is what you must do if you are already trapped! If you get trapped, now you have to be patient, regroup and start formulating a plan, because the tendency is to panic and just keep rushing and respawning into futility.
[QUOTE=cheezespread;342073]Agreed. But if the first wave is thwarted by the resistance,isn’t it better to go with the bot since it provides some cover , if not the most ?
[/QUOTE]
Someone can go fetch that thing sure. But it’s stupid to let it be the first thing you do.
Another thing people seem to not realize, especially PvP defending on CCity, SecTow and resort…is the simple matter of watching their flank. It’s difficult on CCity most, since there’s only two ways out of the attacking spawn, but if the defenders are all camping, all it takes is a couple guys to push out from the far side and get over the ledge. If there’s 5 guys camping the spawn, that means there’s only 3 taking up the rear. Two guys, even if they’re just randoms playing with each other can stand against 3, especially if (and this is mostly the case when I’ve done this) they’re unprepared. They NEVER expect anyone to escape the spawn raping, so when they actually see someone over the far side…IF they even see you, they’ll freak out before they realize “hey, maybe I should shoot them”. After cleaning out those guys, getting behind the others is easy. And once you’ve drawn their attention to the fact that they’re getting hit from behind, the boys in the spawn can come barreling out, finish them off, and you can set up proper perimeter to plant the charge.
I’ve been in quite a few matches where at 1st, the defenders where beating the crap out of my team. But all it takes is throwing a wrench into the cogs of their defense, and it usually crumbles. When people camp in Brink, they get tunnel vision. Find a way out of their vision, and they’ll never notice you’re gone…until you’re behind them or on their flank putting bullets into their heads. Most people can hold off a bot squad, but a squad of human players more then 5 deep can, and usually do in my experiences, find a way to escape being camped.
[QUOTE=Oz70NYC;342163]Another thing people seem to not realize, especially PvP defending on CCity, SecTow and resort…is the simple matter of watching their flank. It’s difficult on CCity most, since there’s only two ways out of the attacking spawn, but if the defenders are all camping, all it takes is a couple guys to push out from the far side and get over the ledge. If there’s 5 guys camping the spawn, that means there’s only 3 taking up the rear. Two guys, even if they’re just randoms playing with each other can stand against 3, especially if (and this is mostly the case when I’ve done this) they’re unprepared. They NEVER expect anyone to escape the spawn raping, so when they actually see someone over the far side…IF they even see you, they’ll freak out before they realize “hey, maybe I should shoot them”. After cleaning out those guys, getting behind the others is easy. And once you’ve drawn their attention to the fact that they’re getting hit from behind, the boys in the spawn can come barreling out, finish them off, and you can set up proper perimeter to plant the charge.
I’ve been in quite a few matches where at 1st, the defenders where beating the crap out of my team. But all it takes is throwing a wrench into the cogs of their defense, and it usually crumbles. When people camp in Brink, they get tunnel vision. Find a way out of their vision, and they’ll never notice you’re gone…until you’re behind them or on their flank putting bullets into their heads. Most people can hold off a bot squad, but a squad of human players more then 5 deep can, and usually do in my experiences, find a way to escape being camped.[/QUOTE]
Spot on guys. what I was gonna say, but better…
One thing I did the other day to break a spawn trap on CC was jump the ledge. Grab the enemy command post and upgrade it. put a bunch of mines and a turret in the command post room as a trap. Then I jumped on the mg nest and started hosing engineers who were facing the gate or who were running to get back to their comrades. Then I slid under the gate and started knocking down as many as I could and damaging turrets. Another thing to try, after grabbing the enemy command post is to parkour over the hack part and get on the ledge above the gate. Very few enemy use this once they have a trap up. Start shooting nothing but engineers and medics. Tell your team to push as soon as there is an opening.
Yes really 
I’m talking about pub servers - I’m pretty sure you are too. However, I’m talking about the usual result - and you’re talking about what happens when everything fits into place. You always get good planning during warmup? Everyone listens, says OK, and synchronises watches? Nobody leaves an empty spot, meaning a new player connects post-warmup? The opposing team never beats you to it, forcing you back on first attempt and losing this element of surprise?
I’m not disagreeing Wolf - but you present a perfect scenario, and in my experience that simply doesn’t happen often enough to be considered “the norm”. There are so many things in your approach just waiting to go wrong, and often they do. At that point, the hold starts and your job is twice as hard - are you still smiling? 5 minutes in you make no progress, and you’re still on the comms - but 50% can’t hear you due to default VoIP options. 3 players quit, and the replacements are simply running and gunning whether they can hear you or not. Still going to break the hold? I doubt it.
Pub play simply doesn’t turn into this fluid nirvana often enough to be cited as the norm - unless your experience on 360 is wildly different to the average pub experience on PC. Granted some games go well - but my experience on CCity as Security has almost always been a bad one. The 97%/3% split on the 360 stats would suggest I’m not alone…
that 97/3 is only the first few (16 hours or so) of this week. on Ps3 stats, CC is generally about 60-65% resistance - especially after a full weeks worth of matches even things out a bit.
I’ve been in a match where i almost felt bad, we were camped outside the spawn, just owning (on res), also in a match, where the guy with the sample was hanging out and not delivering it, b/c it happened so fast (and we were all having a good time picking off the dudes trying to come and stop him).
i think this map - more than most - is realllllly dependent on not having a team full of individuals who run/gun from the moment they spawn. i jumped into a game where sec had been pinned, and did some “non-standard” stuff that managed to disrupt the resistance long enough that we got the bot moving, etc. - still didn’t make it to the crane, but if someone had started that sort of thing sooner (i jumped in with 3 min left), they probably would have.
like Oz70NYC said - spawn camp = tunnel vision, and if you can organize yourself in a way that doesn’t run into that tunnel, 1 by 1, you can break it. the idea that the only way to beat the map (on sec) is to rush the gate from the get go is flawed (it might be the best way, dunno, but not the only way)
[QUOTE=dazman76;342172]Yes really I’m talking about pub servers - I’m pretty sure you are too. However, I’m talking about the usual result - and you’re talking about what happens when everything fits into place. You always get good planning during warmup? Everyone listens, says OK, and synchronises watches? Nobody leaves an empty spot, meaning a new player connects post-warmup? The opposing team never beats you to it, forcing you back on first attempt and losing this element of surprise?
I’m not disagreeing Wolf - but you present a perfect scenario, and in my experience that simply doesn’t happen often enough to be considered “the norm”. There are so many things in your approach just waiting to go wrong, and often they do. At that point, the hold starts and your job is twice as hard - are you still smiling? 5 minutes in you make no progress, and you’re still on the comms - but 50% can’t hear you due to default VoIP options. 3 players quit, and the replacements are simply running and gunning whether they can hear you or not. Still going to break the hold? I doubt it.
Pub play simply doesn’t turn into this fluid nirvana often enough to be cited as the norm - unless your experience on 360 is wildly different to the average pub experience on PC. Granted some games go well - but my experience on CCity as Security has almost always been a bad one. The 97%/3% split on the 360 stats would suggest I’m not alone…[/QUOTE]
Honestly, you get the best results when you put the onus on yourself even in pubs to do obj on the maps with the HE or objs in general. On CC. On Sec Tow. If your sole goal is to rush the gate as a soldier and plant the HE, unless you get hung up on the environment, you should be able to plant it before getting shot. My point is, the game is designed so that even if there is no VOIP you can get it done. I play both pub and pub with players I know. I’ve had tons of success with people who don’t use a Mic and I don’t know. If you’re playing with inexperienced players, then you will have trouble because the defense has the advantage particularly if you rush the gate and nobody is a soldier, which has happened. In the warmup you can determine what your team needs. 2 guys united can blow the gate.
Patience is important in Brink. Rushing heedlessly gets penalized. No, it will not go perfect in every match. But the main thing you don’t want to do is give up. I don’t get as frustrated as maybe some do because I am used to games where the penalty for a mistake is big, like Gears of War for instance. When playing Warzone in Gears, if you make a mistake and get killed you are eliminated and now must spectate. It has made me adjust on the fly and try to constantly re-think my approach. Because these games are so team oriented, you have to figure out what will help your team the most.
An Engineer who jumps the wall on CC can create a really good diversion. You can set up a turret facing the enemy spawn if you go all the way to the back of the map on the other side of the Crane. You have to delay the spawn trappers enough to allow your team to push. Also, you can use the bot as a shield. Many forget to do this; bring the bot up and get it towards the gate.
[QUOTE=Zekariah;342063]I thought spawn camping was meant to be dealt with in the design for Brink.
I realise we are not getting killed as soon as we reappear, but a couple of maps (i.e. Container City, Sec Tower) funnel offensive teams into mow-down territory right around the corner from the spawn point.
Does anyone have secret routes or solutions to this issue? Because getting pinned down is happening more frequently on these maps.
I know.
I do a lot of the pinning.[/QUOTE]
I think spawn camping in CC could be resolved by giving a five second invincibility to people spawning and a third exit out of spawn.