Somehow I feel that loadouts..

(bgyoshi) #41

@Szakalot said:
i dont see how that makes sense. there will always be disparities between the two teams, and individual skill level.
I would argue that by sheer numbers its actually a lot easier for a newbie to find someone at exactly their skill level. assuming of course skill is quantifiable, like in our %acc example

And the disparities between the two teams will be determine the outcome of the match more than the augments will. If the augments were good enough to determine the outcome then you should be able to perform and recreate the following experiment:

Two non-pro teams of similar skill play each other. In any given set of 3 games, Team A wins 2 out of 3 sometimes, and Team B wins other times. Then you give Team A only default cards, using mercs and primary weapon of choice, while Team B retains bronze or better cards. In any given set of 3 games, Team B will always win 2 out of 3.

If you attempted this experiment, I’m more than confident that it would instead go like this:

Team A would win some 2 out of 3 sets, Team B would win some 2 out of 3 sets.

Doesn’t matter who has the augments or not. If everyone is using their primary of choice, they will just trade sets with no reliable way to pin the reason for winning solely on the augments.

That’s a GOOD thing. SD has said from the start that merc augments are there for fun and for an extra level of play without making teams rely on them. What they didn’t want was players without cards getting dominated by players with cards, and I say they’ve succeeded in that endeavor. If augments were that good, the meta would revolve around them… and it doesn’t. The meta is far more dependent upon the mercs you choose, their primary weapon, and their secondary abilities.

(Sorotia) #42

@DefaultSettings said:

@Sorotia said:

@DefaultSettings said:

@Sorotia said:
Some guns are just plain superior to others…if they would fix that. (Like my beloved SMG-9 is left in the dust while the Hoch got a uneeded and some say OP buff)

But still doesn’t stop me from sporting my favorite Nader loadout every now and then.

I agree with the Hochfir part. It has been buff too much. But please do NOT touch SMG-9. At least do not touch how it feels.

But the SMG is just so meh right now…it is bottom or near bottom in just about every weapon statistic…she deserves a buff.

Yes, I know. Still, it’s the one I perform better cause it’s SO accurate.

Well like Gato said the Hochfir is more accurate…but it’s not like they’d have to nerf the recoil in order to make the SMG better…they didn’t do it with their huge Hoch buff.

(Sairdontis) #43

@Szakalot “correct loadouts” = the favored loadouts?

(Szakalot) #44

@Sairdontis said:
@Szakalot “correct loadouts” = the favored loadouts?

some loadouts are obviously suprerior/inferior. There are very few for each merc that are viable.

(Sairdontis) #45

Ah, opinion.

(Szakalot) #46

@Sairdontis said:
Ah, opinion.

yes of course it is opinion that perks like tryhard/extrasupplies for ammo givers, cool, are useless; and perks like unshakeable, drilled, focus are useful

Opinion indeed.

(bgyoshi) #47

@Szakalot said:

@Sairdontis said:
Ah, opinion.

yes of course it is opinion that perks like tryhard/extrasupplies for ammo givers, cool, are useless; and perks like unshakeable, drilled, focus are useful

Opinion indeed.

Unshakable is worse than a smart retreat
Drilled is worse than a smart attack
Focus is worse than smart positioning

You don’t need unshakable if you’re throwing your explosives correctly, nor do you need it if you’re not engaging explosive mercs head on

You don’t need drilled if you’re not attacking enemies on a nearly empty clip, nor do you need it if you’re not engaging imbalanced (2v1, 3v1, etc) situations, nor do you need it if you can aim well enough to kill your opponent in under a full clip.

You don’t need focus if you’re not engaging someone that’s already shooting you at range, nor if your aim is strong enough to kill someone at range before they can respond and kill you.

So yes, opinion.

(Szakalot) #48

I understand your point very well. Yes, skill is the major determinant of victory. Better players will tend to win. But there is no denying that loadouts give OBJECTIVE advantages. It is always better to reload faster, there is no scenario where slow reload might help you. As such, statistically, for any given match, the players with the perks will have an advantage over default loadouts. That has no bearing on individual matches where the perk-less players are better.

(bgyoshi) #49

@Szakalot said:
I understand your point very well. Yes, skill is the major determinant of victory. Better players will tend to win. But there is no denying that loadouts give OBJECTIVE advantages. It is always better to reload faster, there is no scenario where slow reload might help you. As such, statistically, for any given match, the players with the perks will have an advantage over default loadouts. That has no bearing on individual matches where the perk-less players are better.

If they gave an objective advantage then you would have to find a consistently occurring and reproducible scenario in which a player’s only possible improvement is via an augment. It’s the wrong state of mind to think “but it’s BETTER if I use this” and you should instead be saying “but is there a better way to do this.” Augments are OBJECTIVELY better when there are no better solutions and an augment is the only improvement possible.

There are currently 0 augments in the game that have no better alternate solutions and, furthermore, all alternate solutions are better solutions than the augment.

It’s never detrimental to reload slowly when reloading correctly.

You’re equating an augment to having the same power as a gun in this game, when instead it has the same power as the ability to toggle or hold to sprint.

(MarsRover) #50

@bgyoshi said:
There are currently 0 augments in the game that have no better alternate solutions and, furthermore, all alternate solutions are better solutions than the augment.

You are a Kira. Out of nowhere, after 2 wall bounces, a Nader’s egg hits you. Two things can happen:

  • you have a loadout with Unshakeable -> you survive
  • you have a loadout without Unshakeable -> you are dead

Alternate solution? Be a fortune teller and predict that nade? The only “alternate solution” to Unshakeable is to hide in a corner of your spawn.

It’s never detrimental to reload slowly when reloading correctly.

You’re equating an augment to having the same power as a gun in this game, when instead it has the same power as the ability to toggle or hold to sprint.
Are you trolling?

I can’t count the amount of times Drilled on Fletcher’s BL21 saved me, I switched from my previous favorite BL33 and didn’t look back since.

(Szakalot) #51

MarsRover summarized it pretty well. Many perks can save a life, even when you’re doing everything correctly. even if it results in 10hp more dealt to an enemy, this could, once in a while, turn around an objective

(GatoCommodore) #52

@MarsRover
situational

like ejection seat on jet fighter

it sure is nice if you can eject after engine failure but most of the times missiles blow the plane to pieces before you know when to eject

same thing with nader against kira unshakeable.
if kira is still alive after a 130dmg nade direct hit, kira probably would still die because nader has more than 1 grenade when she launched the first one.

its not a must have but its pretty good to be able to get out of sticky situation

(bgyoshi) #53

@MarsRover said:

You are a Kira. Out of nowhere, after 2 wall bounces, a Nader’s egg hits you. Two things can happen:

  • you have a loadout with Unshakeable -> you survive
  • you have a loadout without Unshakeable -> you are dead

Alternate solution? Be a fortune teller and predict that nade? The only “alternate solution” to Unshakeable is to hide in a corner of your spawn.

Alternate solution: Have map awareness and don’t hide around corners from a Nader. Otherwise what you’re suggesting is a nader firing nades randomly around corners they don’t know have enemies around them, which amounts to bad luck. If you know a Nader is spamming corners blindly, then stop hiding behind corners and get ready to flank instead.

If you’re encountering Nader eggs around every corner in every respawn then don’t go that way. Or can the Nader “predict” where you are in some magical way that doesn’t clue you in on where the Nader is?

Alternate solution 2: You are a Kira. You don’t charge corners because Kira only has 90 HP, is strongest at mid to long range, and isn’t an engineer. You have Fraggers and Thunders to charge corners because they have high HP and medics behind them. Stay back and support them with your pewpew beeline accurate BR and laser down on the objective. You have successfully avoided random Nader eggs coming around a corner and don’t need Unshakable.

Are you trolling?

I can’t count the amount of times Drilled on Fletcher’s BL21 saved me, I switched from my previous favorite BL33 and didn’t look back since.

Sounds like you need to work on your aim or finding the right time to reload. If you can’t kill someone with 3 stickies and 7 shotgun blasts and 20 pistol shots and require drilled to save you… there’s something seriously wrong with your play style.

Side note: I hardly ever needed to reload with Fletcher anyway since 99% of my top frag kills are with his infinite stickies.

(BloodySin) #54

@bgyoshi said:
(…)

Waiting for the collection of winning videos, alone, using only a knife, because, coming up this Winter, Alternatives: Why Shoot & Reload When You Can Knife - Git Gud Director’s Cut.

(bgyoshi) #55

@BloodySin said:

@bgyoshi said:
(…)

Waiting for the collection of winning videos, alone, using only a knife, because, coming up this Winter, Alternatives: Why Shoot & Reload When You Can Knife - Git Gud Director’s Cut.

You say that

But Beyblade Phantom got hard banned

(BloodySin) #56

@bgyoshi said:
You say that

But Beyblade Phantom got hard banned
Likely from abusing something unintended. And that was with a katana. I want to see you applying your “there’s always a better alternative” theory to record winning-streak stilettos, because no reload and no cooldown is as good as it gets, right? Stickies are for noobs who can’t use better alternatives.

(bgyoshi) #57

@BloodySin said:

I want to see you applying your “there’s always a better alternative” theory to record winning-streak stilettos, because no reload and no cooldown is as good as it gets, right? Stickies are for noobs who can’t use better alternatives.

If you can top frag a server with a knife then…? Why would you not?

You’re confusing utilizing all of the tools you have no choice in having versus relying on optional tools.

Playing against competent players, though, you don’t get record winning-streak stilettos because people know how to shoot. Or at least… I don’t die much to charging melee players. I know I’m not god and it’s not hard to kill melee charging, so…

(BloodySin) #58

@bgyoshi said:
If you can top frag a server with a knife then…? Why would you not?

You’re confusing utilizing all of the tools you have no choice in having versus relying on optional tools.

Playing against competent players, though, you don’t get record winning-streak stilettos because people know how to shoot. Or at least… I don’t die much to charging melee players. I know I’m not god and it’s not hard to kill melee charging, so…
You’re confusing using the available optional tools to enhance your gameplay with “you can do it without, look at me, I can, so everyone should.” Although that’s pretty much all your posts on balance or mechanics in any thread. Get back to that once the game is Dirty Yoshi, seriously.

(bgyoshi) #59

@BloodySin said:

You’re confusing using the available optional tools to enhance your gameplay with “you can do it without, look at me, I can, so everyone should.” Although that’s pretty much all your posts on balance or mechanics in any thread. Get back to that once the game is Dirty Yoshi, seriously.

If you were any further from the truth you would be in another galaxy lmao

Sure, I could equip Unshakable and start charging into explosives because I won’t die on the first blast and start spraying my half-loaded BR because I have Drilled to reload faster so it’s not a problem

Or I could equip unshakable and continue to not charge into explosives, meaning I don’t die from the first, or second, or third, or fourth or fifth blast. Then I have unshakable for the one or two moments I get randomly surprised, like Mars mentioned, and save myself one respawn cycle. I’ll also start spraying my fully-loaded BR because I learned how to reload properly, and have drilled for the one or two random moments someone I couldn’t see charges around a corner while I’m reloading, and save a second respawn cycle.

I know you rely on your augments to play the game so it’s hard to see that the majority of your shortcomings are just playing poorly. But I promise, if you play default card with no augments, you’ll see just how little they affect the game. Or maybe you’ll just die over and over because you didn’t learn proper tactics in the first place.

It also amuses me when people take “I can do it so why can’t you?” as me saying “I’m a super pro I’m sooooo good” instead of “I’m literally a trash scrub pub player and I can do it” which is what I am.

I’m not good at DB
I’m not good at FPS’
I’m not a pro
I don’t play Ranked
I might put in 3 hours of DB a week in the form of 6 hours one week and nothing the next week.

The things I’m suggesting people do are not hard. They are very easy techniques learned by playing things I’m weakest at and by watching tactics the pros use. Seriously… this is BASIC.

(BloodySin) #60

@bgyoshi said:
I know you rely on your augments to play the game so it’s hard to see that the majority of your shortcomings are just playing poorly. But I promise, if you play default card with no augments, you’ll see just how little they affect the game. Or maybe you’ll just die over and over because you didn’t learn proper tactics in the first place.
I play Aura with a BL41, for Get Up and Extra Supplies, so I can support the team even more. Better luck next time.

It also amuses me when people take “I can do it so why can’t you?” as me saying “I’m a super pro I’m sooooo good” instead of “I’m literally a trash scrub pub player and I can do it” which is what I am.
You’re missing the point. It isn’t that people see it as “I’m super pro;” it’s that people don’t care, so when you keep trying to push your “accomplishments as a trash scrub” as some sort of role model people should base their game on it just gets annoying.

You find Augments unnecessary? Great for you, don’t use them. But don’t keep trying to tell people that they aren’t an extra advantage, that they don’t help, that they don’t make any difference. Maybe Augments are unnecessary for you because not even they can help you get past what you call “trash scrub”?