So... Are We Bringing Back Jump Sniping...

[arcaneCanvas]

[quote=“Xavien;192209”][quote=“Runeforce;192118”]Smooth said this:

the main reason to remove jump-sniping is that as the victim you were:

[list]

[] killed instantly
[] by someone you couldn’t see
[] who hasn’t had to expose themselves
[] with absolutely no warning
[] from across the other side of the map
[] without a cooldown
[/list]

There are several one-hit-kill abilities in Dirty Bomb, but all of them have at least a little bit more warning and potential counters than this. The fact that jump-sniping is a little absurd and also the behaviour was inconsistent with the additional spread other weapons have when jumping is simply the final nail in the coffin.

In other words: jump-sniping is gone for good.

But for the sake of discussion, when you jump-snipe, you are effectively eliminating a good portion of the vertical aim required. How this tranlates to ‘more skill required’ is beyond me. At best, the skill requirement is exactly the same. It would help if this postulate was not always used as a central argument in favor.[/quote]

Well think about it, how many times have you been killed by bunnyhopping shotgun mercs vs jumpsniping Vassilis? They removed instagib for sniper rifles which gives enough time for medics to revive people. Jumpsniping gives the player at most around 1 second to react and HEADSHOT someone from across the map, have you even tried and know how hard that is?

I hate to be that guy, but how many of you actually think there will be many people jump sniping from across the map in the game. The majority of people I see playing this game can barely snipe a stationary target while standing still themselves. Yes it can be annoying, but the few times it actually happened to me when it was still in the game I was more impressed than anything. And now without the instant gib there is plenty of time for a competent medic to revive you before the person can jump back up to land another shot.

[/quote]

Bam, headshot

Bam, medic and downed got headshot.

instagibbing headshot was nerfed because its just literally broken because if you fail, you can just shoot it again and get the same result.

[XavienX]

[quote=“arcaneCanvas;192220”][quote=“Xavien;192209”][quote=“Runeforce;192118”]Smooth said this:

the main reason to remove jump-sniping is that as the victim you were:

[list]

[] killed instantly
[] by someone you couldn’t see
[] who hasn’t had to expose themselves
[] with absolutely no warning
[] from across the other side of the map
[] without a cooldown
[/list]

There are several one-hit-kill abilities in Dirty Bomb, but all of them have at least a little bit more warning and potential counters than this. The fact that jump-sniping is a little absurd and also the behaviour was inconsistent with the additional spread other weapons have when jumping is simply the final nail in the coffin.

In other words: jump-sniping is gone for good.

But for the sake of discussion, when you jump-snipe, you are effectively eliminating a good portion of the vertical aim required. How this tranlates to ‘more skill required’ is beyond me. At best, the skill requirement is exactly the same. It would help if this postulate was not always used as a central argument in favor.[/quote]

Well think about it, how many times have you been killed by bunnyhopping shotgun mercs vs jumpsniping Vassilis? They removed instagib for sniper rifles which gives enough time for medics to revive people. Jumpsniping gives the player at most around 1 second to react and HEADSHOT someone from across the map, have you even tried and know how hard that is?

I hate to be that guy, but how many of you actually think there will be many people jump sniping from across the map in the game. The majority of people I see playing this game can barely snipe a stationary target while standing still themselves. Yes it can be annoying, but the few times it actually happened to me when it was still in the game I was more impressed than anything. And now without the instant gib there is plenty of time for a competent medic to revive you before the person can jump back up to land another shot.

[/quote]

Bam, headshot

Bam, medic and downed got headshot.

instagibbing headshot was nerfed because its just literally broken because if you fail, you can just shoot it again and get the same result.
[/quote]

The time it takes for the sniper to get back up again and MAYBE get a headshot are slim compared to a medic reviving and both players separating in both directions into cover.

[screamnghedghog]

It saddens me that many of the people who are actually good at the game have left because of this kind of thing where the game was “dumbed down” for the bad players who scream the loudest. It is mostly people who do no try to adapt or actually flank a sniper that go to the forums to give there input. How many people go to the forums to say “man this merc is really made I like what they have done. Good job!” It is mostly “OMG WHAT THE %$*@!! I GERT KILLED BY THE VASELINE WHO HAS HUNDEREDS OF HOURS OF PLAYTIME MORE THAN ME, BUT I DON’T CARE HE KILLED ME!!! YOU GOTTA NERF HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIM!! gsdfGHDSK.LFDGSFD” All of the mercs are “OP” in right hands. A skilled, jump-shotting Vasilli has the same counter ability as a skilled fragger(or any other merc) who can lands headshots like a god. It is just raging, sore losers that win these forum fights.

[Drac0rion]

if a fletcher is going around the corner, you dont follow him. nobody wins and keep the game going.

its just simply weird if you know youre going to die doing it but still trying to get him.

Never did I mention chasing Fletcher, I simply used Fletcher over Fragger as an example since stickys can be throwed more reactively, but the idea was behind timing. Just like good Fraggers can even wipe a team with a well timed spawn nade, Fletchers can time a blind airburst sticky around a corner just as well.

the game helps you to be aware (spotting grenade)+ your own awareness and fletcher having an awareness is 2 different thing.

fletcher is going to throw sticky if someone goes to that corner, he waits for it, then nobody comes out nobody wins.

vasilli is going to snipe that guy while jumping, he knows that guy wont be popping up on the right, so he snipe left where the guy is running.

I was trying to make a point about general awareness, regardless of character. While HB sensor is Vassili’s personal tool the spotting devices benefit the whole team. Not to mention everyone can learn the timing behind spawn waves.

do you even play the game when it was still allowed? because the server plagued by 4 vasilli in a team and in which proceed to just suck or blatantly annoying but still wont win the game.

For your information I’ve been playing nearly a year by now. And nearly daily as well, till a certain game got released rather recently.
But I really can’t recall ever seeing more than maybe 1 Vassili per team in comp.

[arcaneCanvas]

It saddens me that many of the people who are actually good at the game have left because of this kind of thing where the game was “dumbed down” for the bad players who scream the loudest. It is mostly people who do no try to adapt or actually flank a sniper that go to the forums to give there input. How many people go to the forums to say “man this merc is really made I like what they have done. Good job!” It is mostly “OMG WHAT THE %$*@!! I GERT KILLED BY THE VASELINE WHO HAS HUNDEREDS OF HOURS OF PLAYTIME MORE THAN ME, BUT I DON’T CARE HE KILLED ME!!! YOU GOTTA NERF HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIM!! gsdfGHDSK.LFDGSFD” All of the mercs are “OP” in right hands. A skilled, jump-shotting Vasilli has the same counter ability as a skilled fragger(or any other merc) who can lands headshots like a god. It is just raging, sore losers that win these forum fights.

oh, now jumping snipers are skillfull.
whats next?
youre going to get instagibbing back when turtle arrive because of sheilds hmm?

people adapt every day.

this kind of gameplay makes a merc unkillable.

i have no fuggen grudge for the vasillis because i main them myself
but for jump sniping to happen?

a very skilled vas doesnt even need cover because he walks with the team and kill enemy on sight

lets see fragger.
hes bulky
he doesnt have sniper rifle
he doesnt have spotting grenade

why its the same counterability with vasilli i wonder.

flank fragger, dink dink dink hes dead

flank vasilli , beep now youre dead

i have adressed all of the point i need to adress and people give me stupid argument like this?

It saddens me that many of the people who are actually good at the game have left because of this kind of thing where the game was “dumbed down” for the bad players who scream the loudest.

FYI
ALL OF MY FRIENDS, 48 OF EM MOVED TO OVERWATCH BECAUSE THEY SEE DB HASNT GOT ANY MORE CONTENT
all of them are over level 30 and 15 of them already playing even far before contaiment war update

we usually make a small tournament in the school with our own clan and all.
i just really miss them not hanging around with me anymore because they already moved on.

you are a sore loser who wants to get easy kills in the pubs.

[SlyWolf10]

It will be like this, Jumping 360 No-scope Headshot 420

[Ohsnapkline]

[quote=“streetwiseOverload;192172”]Mr. Kelvin’s thought

Not touching on the subject of jump sniping here but rather…

the question "It’s annoying to play against’ is a very good question to ask. And just because some other mechanic in the game is annoying does not justify it or anything hurting a player’s experience. If Splash Damage did not keep that concept in mind they would find a lot of players (new and vet) getting frustrated with the game (remember pre nerf phantom?), which is not a good thing for the health or experience of any multiplayer game.

Heck I’m already starting to feel that burning headache of frustration everytime I go up against a Thunder, or a Kira who’s in execution (who makes arty look pretty pointless atm, not in execution but in the whole game imo).

I’m so tired of posting this in every game forum but food for thought guys

[arcaneCanvas]

i got flagged by @Dracorion fer stating the obvious. thx man.

[TheGreatHoundini]

Is this jump sniping thing like those gags in Looney Tunes where Elmer Fudd jumps in the air and appears to sit on thin air and fire his hunting rifle before coming back down to earth?

I dunno about other Sniper players, but I’d feel a bit self-conscious doing that over and over again. Also that sounds like it would hurt my fingers before too long. Woof-dee-doo.

[neverplayseriou]

@arcaneCanvas flank a vassili and beep ur dead?

1. Vassilis should never throw a heartbeat sensor on themselves.

2. How will vassili kill u when he gets flanked simply because he hears a beep in the last few seconds?

3. How long have you actually played this game because it doesn’t sound like you’ve even gotten past lvl 20.

4. You keep on talking about high skilled vassilis but in my ~800 hours I’ve never ever seen a vass that could actually hit consistent headshots, not in pubs, comp and ranked.

[arcaneCanvas]

[quote=“neverplayserious;192296”]@arcaneCanvas flank a vassili and beep ur dead?

1. Vassilis should never throw a heartbeat sensor on themselves.

2. How will vassili kill u when he gets flanked simply because he hears a beep in the last few seconds?

3. How long have you actually played this game because it doesn’t sound like you’ve even gotten past lvl 20.[/quote]

4. you can spot enemies running towards you while they are spotted

5. anticipating or predicting where the spotted enemy is going to pop up is more than enough to be ready for a rifle headshot or spray from his secondary

6. ive been playing since contaiment wars update, i have 2 account which the old one i never use because i want a new start around near the what the dickens update.

i was banned here once and i probably seen everything by now.

[ClemClem7]

Here is a thread, done a long time ago, with a poll:
http://forums.dirtybomb.nexon.net/discussion/23608/who-wants-to-revert-rng-shots-in-sniper-rifle-jumpshotting-back-to-no-rng/p1

Personally, I don’t care about because I feel like I won’t be able to do it, since I didn’t play vassili at the time jumpsniping was a thing. I’m one of the vassili who help the team by using efficiently his Heartbeat sensor, but I still train to hit head every shot.

Jumpsniping is annoying but like every good players in the game. Don’t pretend it to be uncounterable. A good vassili don’t throw the sensor at his feet, and a bad one (who throw the sensor at his feet) can’t jumpsnipe.
Good players gonna be good. It’s the game.
Better remove bunnyhopping which is very annoying to play against.
Problem with shotgun and bunnyhopping is that spread don’t have the same effect on pellets than on one bullet. With a normal gun, a bullet can go anywhere with high spread, but with shotguns, pellets spread more, but are still centered, then you hit people more easily. They need to keep the same spread as when you run, but shoot it at a random place in the spread cone.

[blonk]

And if you look to your left you can see this relic of a thread from 2015-

Oh no wait, this is a brand new discussion, a pagan ritual to summon all the people we’ve lost over the months who used to keep going on about this (lord have mercy on us). Maybe if we start dropping some casual references to Overwatch we can bring them back! Let’s join hands now, chant with me…butt pose…butt pose…

[quote=“Xavien;31177”]Yes this is a rant even though this is an old topic but I’ve been thinking about it and just doing that pisses me off.
[/quote]

There’s been so much said on this, you’ve created a number of polls on this matter as well, but having read through all of this thread there’s very little that’s actually new to this debate. I’m very sceptical that this is going to sway anyone.

[quote=“Xavien;31177”]
Seriously, SD still has no words on this.[/quote]

This isn’t true

Firstly I’d like to point out that this subject has been tackled into the ground by the community. If it be my guess, I can safely say MOST players do not agree with the nerf on jump sniping. Most people in fact acknowledged it as something skillful to do.

I don’t buy this either. The only opinion polls I’m aware of are the ones on this forum (which are going to be biased if we’re honest, this is where people go to bitch after all), they do capture that people here are not in favour of the jumpsniping changes but not overwhelmingly so. The actual populus of players we may never know but they certainly don’t seem to be bawling in the same manner some forum goers have been.

Having had at least a few months to think about this, when I consider how well I see the high end snipers in this game perform I don’t think they need this in their arsenal. The really scary ones are entirely capable of dominating the scoreboard without having to do this so god knows what they’d be able to do if they got jumpsniping back. If it’s a crutch that the mediocre to okay Vasillys can use to prop themselves up with then it can stay gone. They are hardly crippled without it, having access to some of the most powerful single shot weapons in the game. Don’t get me wrong I’d love them to remove all kinds of movement related spread for a proper high adrenaline FPS experience, but most would probably view that as a bit extreme.

[quote=“arcaneCanvas;192298”]
i was banned here once and i probably seen everything by now.[/quote]

Oh boy, sure hope the admins aren’t reading this thread then!

[Jostabeere]

i got flagged by @Dracorion fer stating the obvious. thx man.

The same as I got 7 disgrees by pointing out that OP argumented with lies. A crapton of people found it annoying. But hey, for the sake of argument, it was noone.
Just contact @Ardez or @Amerika or, hell kinda weird to adapt to a new mod, @Eox . They will deal with reputation abuse.

[CLS]

[quote=“blonk;192317”]And if you look to your left you can see this relic of a thread from 2015-

Oh no wait, this is a brand new discussion, a pagan ritual to summon all the people we’ve lost over the months who used to keep going on about this (lord have mercy on us). Maybe if we start dropping some casual references to Overwatch we can bring them back! Let’s join hands now, chant with me…butt pose…butt pose…

[quote=“Xavien;31177”]Yes this is a rant even though this is an old topic but I’ve been thinking about it and just doing that pisses me off.
[/quote]

There’s been so much said on this, you’ve created a number of polls on this matter as well, but having read through all of this thread there’s very little that’s actually new to this debate. I’m very sceptical that this is going to sway anyone.

[quote=“Xavien;31177”]
Seriously, SD still has no words on this.[/quote]

This isn’t true

Firstly I’d like to point out that this subject has been tackled into the ground by the community. If it be my guess, I can safely say MOST players do not agree with the nerf on jump sniping. Most people in fact acknowledged it as something skillful to do.

I don’t buy this either. The only opinion polls I’m aware of are the ones on this forum (which are going to be biased if we’re honest, this is where people go to @$!# after all), they do capture that people here are not in favour of the jumpsniping changes but not overwhelmingly so. The actual populus of players we may never know but they certainly don’t seem to be bawling in the same manner some forum goers have been.

Having had at least a few months to think about this, when I consider how well I see the high end snipers in this game perform I don’t think they need this in their arsenal. The really scary ones are entirely capable of dominating the scoreboard without having to do this so god knows what they’d be able to do if they got jumpsniping back. If it’s a crutch that the mediocre to okay Vasillys can use to prop themselves up with then it can stay gone. They are hardly crippled without it, having access to some of the most powerful single shot weapons in the game. Don’t get me wrong I’d love them to remove all kinds of movement related spread for a proper high adrenaline FPS experience, but most would probably view that as a bit extreme.

i was banned here once and i probably seen everything by now.[/quote]

Oh boy, sure hope the admins aren’t reading this thread then!

Basically this, high skilled snipers can already hold an entire section of the map, there’s absolutely no need to give them the ability to become even more powerful.

[Ohsnapkline]

[quote=“CLS;192322”]

Basically this, high skilled snipers can already hold an entire section of the map, there’s absolutely no need to give them the ability to become even more powerful.[/quote]

that’s a good point I can see this situation being annoying because I have both gave and received a sniper beatdown. With one execution game I locked the whole game down going 17-1 with Felix Vassili enemy team was leaving match left and right. And was given then business by my buddy Kim-Loe who whent 59-7 on stopwatch with MOA Vassili.

of course these are just a few games and other variables like team skill level, map, team composition are a factor.

I just don’t like the way jump sniping looks, it makes Vassili looks silly.

[Herr_Hanz]

i really want it to be back, but i can see that its annoying to non snipers.

[Jostabeere]

It saddens me that many of the people who are actually good at the game have left because of this kind of thing where the game was “dumbed down” for the bad players who scream the loudest. It is mostly people who do no try to adapt or actually flank a sniper that go to the forums to give there input. How many people go to the forums to say “man this merc is really made I like what they have done. Good job!” It is mostly “OMG WHAT THE %$*@!! I GERT KILLED BY THE VASELINE WHO HAS HUNDEREDS OF HOURS OF PLAYTIME MORE THAN ME, BUT I DON’T CARE HE KILLED ME!!! YOU GOTTA NERF HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIM!! gsdfGHDSK.LFDGSFD” All of the mercs are “OP” in right hands. A skilled, jump-shotting Vasilli has the same counter ability as a skilled fragger(or any other merc) who can lands headshots like a god. It is just raging, sore losers that win these forum fights.

Go and flank that Vassili at the end of the map behind an objective with his whole team in-between.

[Drac0rion]

[quote=“Jostabeere;192346”]
Go and flank that Vassili at the end of the map behind an objective with his whole team in-between.[/quote]

That’s a sniper for you. If you got a decent team, the sniper should almost never be touched by the enemy team, but if your team is not that great, the sniper will most likely get rushed at some point.

And while I understand that the scary snipers can get ridiculous KD’s in pubs, it’s rarely the case in a 5vs5 or even a balanced 6vs6. If SD would have said that jump sniping was removed due to it being too strong at comp level, I would have been fine with it if that would have been the best decision for a nerf.
At first I actually thought this change would be good in the long run for the game, but after I kept playing Vassili and noticed how much more limited my jumping spots were in certain maps I really started to miss it.

Even in pubs playing against better players, if they know where I am and can’t reach me they can very well play around me without really running in front of my scope more than just once or twice as in pubs I already have plenty of targets to pick. Now in comp with only 5 enemies to keep track of, I find avoiding a sniper even easier when needed, unless there’s a chokepoint that the attackers can’t avoid.

I’d like jumpsniping back to make sniper characters more viable on comp level. I mean does DB really need more situational characters?
Rhino, when he’s ever even picked in comp is usually in the very close range map and on defense. Auras are also usually played more on defense than offense. And many more merc abilities are heavily defense favored while they could be adjusted to be almost as effective on offense as well.
Personally I just extremely dislike someones favorite character being pushed more towards a “situationally good” character. I guess all mercs are equal, but some are just more equal than others.

[XavienX]

[quote=“blonk;192317”]

Seriously, SD still has no words on this.[/quote]

This isn’t true

I was appealing to the mass majority, as you can see that most people didn’t even know any of the devs said anything about this until ONE person posted about it. They did not make it clear enough most likely because they know they will get a lot of hate from it.