Sniper

(INF3RN0) #81

PLEASE READ THIS TO CLEAR UP YOUR MISCONCEPTIONS OF WHAT QUICK SCOPING ACTUALLY IS :smiley:

Scoping: Right click, increased accuracy, see further.

Quick scoping: Zooming and shooting immediately (zoom animations will be drawn every time), assuming that you will hit what you were aiming at unscoped. Almost all games, except for QW, allow this as you are essentially right clicking+left clicking, and most of the time they auto-unzoom for you. MISCONCEPTION- You are skipping the zoom animation or you fire faster. FACT- What you are doing is really zooming normally, except instead of taking the time in lining up your shot, you are risking that you will hit what you were previously aiming at.

Quick scoping in QW: Same as above, except for the lack of an auto-unzoom feature. This is where the the right click, left click + right click comes into play. MISCONCEPTION- You are skipping the zoom animations and firing faster. FACT- You are manually unzooming instead of staying scoped for another shot. What this does is prevent you from experiencing the wait period between firing shots scoped so that you can either run away or switch weapons.

So if you consider this an exploit, I want you to ask yourself something. If someone were to zoom+shoot without adding in the manual unzoom step required in QW, will that prevent them from killing you? You know that in order to zoom+shoot as fast as possible, the zoom animations must be drawn first. Go into a server and try it yourself. Then think about the quick unzoom that is standard in most games, which tend to insta kill no matter where you aim. If it doesn’t increase the time it takes to fire your next shot, and simply works around the awkward assumption that you are going to keep shooting scoped, then how is this bad? This allows you to use the sniper rifle in two ways. Distanced- always scoped / Close Quarters- 1 shot, with a possible swap to pistol if you don’t hit head.

If you think the zoom+shoot is an exploit, that is the normal zoom in system with the minimum allowed time to fire a shot after the animations are drawn.

If you think the zoom+shoot insta kills, it does the exact damage as if you were zoomed at any time and only kills if aimed at the head.

If you think the zoom+shoot+unzoom allows for a faster RoF, increase in damage, higher accuracy, you are both right and wrong in a few ways. The RoF does not change as you are scope, shoot, unscope, wait, scope, shoot, unscope as opposed to scope, shoot, wait, shoot. The damage and accuracy are the same as being scoped, as yes you are scoped in this case aren’t you?

This is basically as clear as I can make the case of “quickscoping in QW”. It does not exploit anything as far as I can see. It still requires you to aim regardless of what you are doing with your mouse. It doesn’t create any imbalance, and only makes the sniper rifle an actually usable weapon in close quarters. I am going to go out on a limb here and bet you that even guys at SD would consider this perfectly fine as is. The lack of knowledge is where it becomes an issue with people, who somehow think that quickscoping makes bad players good. If they kill you, they aimed at you. If they unzoom immediately instead of setting up a second consecutive shot and kill you, your still dead. In the end it is completely dependent on aim and movement. No matter how you cut it, it is a very sensible technique that is in no way exploiting the game.

(tokamak) #82

Yes, there’s no confusion on what we both think quickscoping is.

This allows you to use the sniper rifle in two ways. Distanced- always scoped / Close Quarters- 1 shot,

Well summarised.

(INF3RN0) #83

Care to elaborate? You apparently have never done it yourself and have not taken the time to think about what is really happening when you do it…

(DarkangelUK) #84

Scoped shooting: Intended action - scope for greater accuracy, fire and you can’t unscope until the chamber is reloaded. Quickscoping gives the accuracy of a scoped shot while completely removing the limitation of the original intention. Every weapon has pros and cons… quickscope removes a con, therefore giving an advantage and exploiting the fact that you can instantly unscope when that wasn’t the original intention.

Load a local server, scope, fire a shot and instantly try and unscope… you can’t. It’s possible as strogg with the railgun, but not with the GDF sniper. Sorry m8, no wall of text will convince me otherwise :slight_smile: I’m not blaming you, and it’s kind of hard to blame SD for poor implementation… it is what it is, some will agree with it, some won’t… i won’t.

(Apoc) #85

All quick scoping is, is…like it sounds, scoping quickly…there is no glitch…it is exactly like aiming at a person with a sniper, staying in zoom for about 5 seconds, waiting until you think it will hit them and shooting. The only differance is that you have saved time by aiming before the zoom. If anything its just simply the logical option.

The reason you guys dont like it, is because you have face particularly good players who have got very good at aiming and have good tactical knowhow. I put it to you to try and do it and i bet your kd will not go above 0.5.

Its very risky, if you dont headshot or neckshot your enemy chances are you are dead. End of.
Headshots on a moving target while you yourself are moving is extreamly difficult. So think back to your quake wars days. You remember all those snipers youve snuck up on and owned, they took a shot at u in desperation but missed, or the snipers indoors who you have thought were noobs since you could just dance around them and they wouldnt hit them. They are the people trying to quickscope but realising the incredible precision required to even make a decent number of kills.

(tokamak) #86

[QUOTE=Apoc;210688]All quick scoping is, is…like it sounds, scoping quickly…there is no glitch…it is exactly like aiming at a person with a sniper, staying in zoom for about 5 seconds, waiting until you think it will hit them and shooting. The only differance is that you have saved time by aiming before the zoom. If anything its just simply the logical option.
[/QUOTE]

That’s simply not true, you avoid the scope sway which was meant to be a compromise for not having the spread you would have unscoped. You’re basically getting best of both sides for the price of a somewhat awkward mouse handling.

And that’s where it stops being fun. The opponent has no input on the outcome of the fight because it’s all determined by your hit or miss.

(Apoc) #87

[quote=DarkangelUK;210687]Scoped shooting: Intended action - scope for greater accuracy, fire and you can’t unscope until the chamber is reloaded. Quickscoping gives the accuracy of a scoped shot while completely removing the limitation of the original intention. Every weapon has pros and cons… quickscope removes a con, therefore giving an advantage and exploiting the fact that you can instantly unscope when that wasn’t the original intention.

Load a local server, scope, fire a shot and instantly try and unscope… you can’t. It’s possible as strogg with the railgun, but not with the GDF sniper. Sorry m8, no wall of text will convince me otherwise :slight_smile: I’m not blaming you, and it’s kind of hard to blame SD for poor implementation… it is what it is, some will agree with it, some won’t… i won’t.[/quote]

Your talking about the sniper glitch, we are talking about the quick scoping. And yes you cant unscope until the chamber reloads hence making the headshot even more vital. And btw the glitch is incredibly hard to do and knocks your aim a hell of alot. But thats not what me or inferno were talking about. We were merely saying snipers add a fun tactical dimension to games even in close quatre combat and are by no means unbalanced.

(INF3RN0) #88

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;210687]Scoped shooting: Intended action - scope for greater accuracy, fire and you can’t unscope until the chamber is reloaded. Quickscoping gives the accuracy of a scoped shot while completely removing the limitation of the original intention. Every weapon has pros and cons… quickscope removes a con, therefore giving an advantage and exploiting the fact that you can instantly unscope when that wasn’t the original intention.

Load a local server, scope, fire a shot and instantly try and unscope… you can’t. It’s possible as strogg with the railgun, but not with the GDF sniper. Sorry m8, no wall of text will convince me otherwise :slight_smile: I’m not blaming you, and it’s kind of hard to blame SD for poor implementation… it is what it is, some will agree with it, some won’t… i won’t.[/QUOTE]

Sigh… you still don’t seem to realize the part where (normal zoom, shoot, wait shoot/unzoom) = (normal zoom, shoot, unzoom, wait, zoom, shoot, unzoom) regardless. It is obvious that the original intention was for you to wait and fire another shot or unzoom, but one is not > than the other technically speaking, but one is far smarter to use. It all depends on the situation and I myself use both. And again, the part where they die comes before the quickscope you guys are referring to even happens so… what are we talking about?

(DarkangelUK) #89

Please don’t try and dictate and 2nd guess my reasons for not liking it. No I haven’t come up against particularly good players using it then ragequit. I don’t like the mechanic behind it pure and simple, nothing more. Give me slightly more credit than that please.

(DarkangelUK) #90

I agree, by-passing design is smarter… still doesn’t make it right. The design is delay before unscoping… just happens that pressing fire+scope at the same time removes that, do you think that was intentional? Cos i never saw it mentioned in the Tips when waiting for a map to load.

(Apoc) #91

[quote=tokamak;210689]That’s simply not true, you avoid the scope sway which was meant to be a compromise for not having the spread you would have unscoped. You’re basically getting best of both sides for the price of a somewhat awkward mouse handling.

And that’s where it stops being fun. The opponent has no input on the outcome of the fight because it’s all determined by your hit or miss.[/quote]

Firstly try it then show me a video of how imba it is.

Secondly where does the oponent have any input on the outcome of a fight with grenades? rocket launchers? or vehicles?
This is where the tactics come in, hence adding another dimension of gameplay. Maybe, its not smart to run at someone who is good with a sniper from the front? maybe you should use a grenade? maybe just maybe you should use a little brainpower to overcome the situation yourself instead of whining that they killed you.

(INF3RN0) #92

This is why my constructive, rather than informative portion of posts here is towards having some kind of sniper element in the game. Disregard any opinionated exploits and the ultra-long ranged snipers, and you get mid-range/close quarters snipers. They have their definite uses, and level the playing field though they might require more time to learn.

(tokamak) #93

Secondly where does the oponent have any input on the outcome of a fight with grenades? rocket launchers? or vehicles?

All of these have their own pros and cons, I’m under the impression the quickscope has just escaped the testing phases of the game and is therefore without any intended drawbacks (like the spread or the sway, quickscope has neither)

You’re suggesting to add instant killing bolt guns with 100% accuracy to the game? May I refer you to Unreal Tournament? You’ll love it.

(Apoc) #94

Well i guess as it isnt fair we should remove it. And also all the other factors that make games fair. Like, everyone should be playing in the same room at all times so we all get the same ping. And everyone should downgrade their pc’s so no one gets a fps advantage. Also we need to regress to 3 button mice, all these binds are unfair. Um also bye bye configs, commen sense, any sort of tactical initiative etc…

My point is they didnt make a big book saying how not to use their weapons. Its up to you. I can choose to try and snipe people while miles away unscoped. This isnt how the game dictates i should, does this make it equally as bad? no. Because people only moan when someone uses their initiative and their logic leads them to something that works well.

(tokamak) #95

[QUOTE=Apoc;210698]Well i guess as it isnt fair we should remove it. And also all the other factors that make games fair. Like, everyone should be playing in the same room at all times so we all get the same ping. And everyone should downgrade their pc’s so no one gets a fps advantage. Also we need to regress to 3 button mice, all these binds are unfair. Um also bye bye configs, commen sense, any sort of tactical initiative etc…
[/QUOTE]

He didn’t say it was unfair.

That’s great advocacy for using any exploit you can find. Including the Volcano glitch.

(Apoc) #96

[quote=tokamak;210697]

You’re suggesting to add instant killing bolt guns with 100% accuracy to the game? May I refer you to Unreal Tournament? You’ll love it.[/quote]

He definately didnt say that, you clearly misread.

(DarkangelUK) #97

After asking the powers that be on IRC, it has been confirmed that quickscoping was never intentional and sounds like a bug. Case closed…

(knippon) #98

Quick scoping is not an exploit. I don’t even think it’s any more of an advantage as ironsights without the gun model drawn. I doubt it will make it into the game (going by what has been said) and if it did I doubt it will even be that effective.

(Apoc) #99

[quote=tokamak;210699]
That’s great advocacy for using any exploit you can find. Including the Volcano glitch.[/quote]

No, that is abusing a mistake in the coding. It would have been fixed if we still got patch’s

There have been many quake wars patchs, quickscoping has been around since the start. Everyone was aware of it. Yet didnt choose to change it in the slightest.

To be honest i think that shows that the game makers had no problem with it.

(Apoc) #100

The sniper glitch? or the fact that a weapon that can zoom can be used to shoot someone once zoomed?
Thats all it is.