Sniper

(Apoc) #61

[quote=Stroggafier;210609]@Apoc, whats a non-aim fps? Do you mean an fps game where other elements besides aim are important?

The theory implied by @shirosae is based on equating experience with in-close aim and being a good player with being able to aim well. This is indeed the older paradym that may however be up for revision or at least some spinal adjustment.[/quote]

Was merely basing the comment around this:

[quote=Stroggafier;210588]@signofzeta, you hit my point square on. The paradym of aim as king of FPS is perhaps shifting in order to encompass a larger fan base. This is a good thing. Folks who think they are “cream of the crop” because of their aiming skills take note.

I expect aim based FPS games will be around a long time, they just will not have the same player base as broader skill based FPS games.

The times, they may be a changing.[/quote]

My point was that all fps games are aim based.
I know your trying to say that some games have other elements that need to be mastered, but i was taking this as a given as i cant think of any game that relies souley on aim…

(DarkangelUK) #62

I love how you like to throw in completely random stuff into a conversation for no apparent reason.

I never said it wasn’t part of the game, i said what the issue is that people have with it. I don’t have a major gripe with it, for me it’s just like tricking… you get great advantages from practising it and reap the rewards when you master it… still doesn’t stop people complaining about it either. I take advantage of the physics, you take advantage of an animation… the difference is im not so close minded to appreciate why people could potentially see them as exploits.

IMO (<-- please remember that part), i think the scope accuracy shouldn’t increase until you’re in the scope, not during an animation when really it should be at its least accurate. That’s just my thoughts, but not something that bothers me all that much. Others think you shouldn’t be able to ramp up slopes and i can understand why…

(Apoc) #63

[quote=tokamak;210611]Every exploit, which quake wars luckily doesn’t to many off have can be done by anyone if learned and trained well.

Saying that it takes time to learn is no excuse for an exploit, it just forces people to waste their time on something that’s basically a broken game mechanic.[/quote]

Still no example.

The point is dude, its not the time it takes to learn it, its the skill required to do it. A combination of superb aim, extreame tactical movement and generaly great battlesense is required to close quater snipe on QW. All im saying is that theres no point complaining. If it wasnt there you would just be getting repeatedly owned some other way by this player. The only reason people do it is because they are bored of just owning people normally and want more of a challenge, it keeps the game interesting for them.

(tokamak) #64

Okay the exploit that gets people through the volcano doors so they can plant while they GDF can’t do anything about it. It requires skill to to it and it’s part of the game.

(INF3RN0) #65

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;210613]I love how you like to throw in completely random stuff into a conversation for no apparent reason.

I never said it wasn’t part of the game, i said what the issue is that people have with it. I don’t have a major gripe with it, for me it’s just like tricking… you get great advantages from practising it and reap the rewards when you master it… still doesn’t stop people complaining about it either. I take advantage of the physics, you take advantage of an animation… the difference is im not so close minded to appreciate why people could potentially see them as exploits.

IMO (<-- please remember that part), i think the scope accuracy shouldn’t increase until you’re in the scope, not during an animation when really it should be at its least accurate. That’s just my thoughts, but not something that bothers me all that much. Others think you shouldn’t be able to ramp up slopes and i can understand why…[/QUOTE]

I just feel that this is in no way an exploit what so ever. People don’t have a direct problem with quickscoping, but more so being killed by a sniper rifle at close quarters in general. I don’t approach the subject with a closed mind because it is simply the same whine that comes up with everything. Trick jumping might be more on the same level as quickscoping and other weapon use methods. Not that they are exploits, but are intentionally integrated into the game design. I think the real issue is not taking advantage of variables of a game, but actually playing it as it was meant to be. People just make it sound like the sniper rifle auto-aims through quickscoping, which it does not. You can just as easily kill someone scoped in normally, but it will leave you locked in scope for a few seconds longer. This is not nearly enough in my mind to create a balance issue or a serious problem in the game mechanics. Something more “exploitable” is the weapons swap trick that allows you to fire a no scoped shot straight on (although this is rarely used). People are entitled to their opinions about it, but they should at least understand that it really isn’t as significant as they make it sound. To me quickscoping is the same as nade cooking as strange as it may sound to you… some people will say that cooking nades make it to easy to kill with them (which it does). It still comes down to individual skill, as it does with all weapons. Lowering your sensitivity makes it easier to aim, and creating toggles can help to control weapon recoil. Just saying that if something like this is truely an exploit, then what is next.

That was just stupid to use as an example…

(tokamak) #66

And cooking grenades isn’t?

(INF3RN0) #67

How does quickscoping relate to map glitching? I just want to know what the problem really is… 1 shot headshot kills with a sniper rifle? The missing extra second of unscoping? People having good aim? Quickscoping from a long distance doesn’t work, which is why the lack of auto-unzoom is useful. Quickscoping at close range at least gives the sniper rifle a fighting chance to be moderately useful, but it is still not nearly significant enough to be a problem. Not in the least.

(INF3RN0) #68

Actually now that I think about it, doesn’t it force you to go into full scope before being able to shoot? The only thing that happens is skipping the “you just shot please wait a moment” period. It still takes about the same time to fire the next shot, unless you use the weapon swap trick I believe.

(DarkangelUK) #69

To exploit something is to use it to ones advantage. Whether it be the accuracy on the animation or using the physics to reach new heights… it’s exploiting those options for your benefit. In gaming terms exploit is the wrong word, but it’s still taking advantage of something that’s not obvious or apparent… or sometimes intended.

G

(tokamak) #70

Look the map glitch is far more severe than the quickscope but both are obviously not intended and both aren’t fun. Killing a player in front of you in close quarters with one shot isn’t fun unless there are proper costs linked to that, there’s no responsive combat going on and there’s a large amount of luck involved.

Sure everyone can learn it, but so can the map glitchers.

(INF3RN0) #71

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;210634]

Sure those things are open for all to use, but hey… if they don’t know about it then that’s their fault right?[/QUOTE]

Pretty much yea in this case, as harsh as it sounds. I don’t feel that quick scoping gives me or anyone else an advantage other than in the speed of movement following the shot. There is only one chance to shoot, and the rest is just don’t die until you can shoot again. I just don’t see this having a serious effect on balance.

(tokamak) #72

It instantly kills.

(DarkangelUK) #73

If it didn’t give an advantage, then you wouldn’t do it…

(INF3RN0) #74

[QUOTE=tokamak;210637]Look the map glitch is far more severe than the quickscope but both are obviously not intended and both aren’t fun. Killing a player in front of you in close quarters with one shot isn’t fun unless there are proper costs linked to that, there’s no responsive combat going on and there’s a large amount of luck involved.

Sure everyone can learn it, but so can the map glitchers.[/QUOTE]

You don’t seem to understand that quickscoping without aim is useless. It really doesn’t even affect aim at all, but only what might happen after the shot. I can sit at the end of a hall and shoot normally getting the same result. Quickscoping allows you to be effective on the move, but takes a much greater effort.

(tokamak) #75

It’s useless without aim, sure but that’s hardly a draw back isn’t it? The only other gun in the game that has zero spread is the lightening gun.

(INF3RN0) #76

It only allows you to play more aggressively, but does not give you an advantage in aim or actually hitting something. You might argue it increases your accuracy, but really your only scoping and shooting fast, but unscoping quickly. All it does is unscope quickly, that’s about it.

Have you actually played the game?

(brbrbr) #77

[QUOTE=tokamak;210611]Every exploit, which quake wars luckily doesn’t to many off have can be done by anyone if learned and trained well.

Saying that it takes time to learn is no excuse for an exploit, it just forces people to waste their time on something that’s basically a broken game mechanic.[/QUOTE]

right my point.
because its a GAME.
and playing UNFAIR[even a bit] ruin gameplay COMPLETELY[both senses].

(Ragoo) #78

A quick question: Is trickjumping (for example Volcano the right side as Strogg) also an unfair exploit? I guess it wasn’t intended.

Still waiting for some SD guy to answer my question if they were aware of the quickzoom and wanted it to stay in the game :slight_smile:

(DarkangelUK) #79

[QUOTE=Ragoo;210670]A quick question: Is trickjumping (for example Volcano the right side as Strogg) also an unfair exploit? I guess it wasn’t intended.

Still waiting for some SD guy to answer my question if they were aware of the quickzoom and wanted it to stay in the game :)[/QUOTE]

I can assure you, i let SD know about every ramp on Volcano during the closed beta :wink:

I already admitted that tricking can be seen as an exploit, did you not see that part? :tongue:

(MILFandCookies) #80

[QUOTE=Ragoo;210670]A quick question: Is trickjumping (for example Volcano the right side as Strogg) also an unfair exploit? I guess it wasn’t intended.

Still waiting for some SD guy to answer my question if they were aware of the quickzoom and wanted it to stay in the game :)[/QUOTE]

Logic is sound for the argument if it wasnt intended.
But I actually think the map was designed with those jumps in mind.
I think the boxes next to the front door for example are too convenient.