I can safely say I wasn’t under any illusions that it wouldn’t need changes… but then knock on effects aren’t what we were discussing.
Smart
INF3RN0
(INF3RN0)
#102
Who is to say that the next game with Smart movement will even have body types? I think those were proven to be too difficult for SD to properly balance already. Not a very necessary commodity either; balance through classes is the more sensible route for the genre, and has already been proven to work well.
BioSnark
(BioSnark)
#103
Changes which have not gone unexplored in these forums or even this thread.
DarkangelUK
(DarkangelUK)
#104
I guess I can maybe get my kicks in Rage 
Strafe looks to be on-par with Q4, ramping looks on-par with D3/ETQW.
tangoliber
(tangoliber)
#106
[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;380905]I guess I can maybe get my kicks in Rage Strafe looks to be on-par with Q4, ramping looks on-par with D3/ETQW.
Strafe test
Ramping showcase[/QUOTE]
Cool, I didn’t expect that we would be able to strafe jump in Rage.
I wonder how long it will take for a deathmatch mod to be released.
Codine
(Codine)
#108
Here’s my 200+ screens of RAGE in action.
This is what you can get out of idtech 5 on an E8400 Core2Duo with an 8800 Ultra
http://steamcommunity.com/id/CuteLittleGirl/screenshots?tab=public&showdate=1&filter=app_9200
And yeah I love the movement in RAGE. I’m constantly hopping around.
H0RSE
(H0RSE)
#109
Don’t know where these people are getting that the movement in RAGE is great…there are invisible barriers everywhere, and they are in places where it looks like their shouldn’t even be barriers - like waste high railings.
Apparently, having to form your own movements out of simple maneuvers, like strafe-jumping, and “use your imagination” to get where you want to go, in a game with many, many invisible barriers = better movement than a game that actually has an actual movement system built into it. The movement system in RAGE is like your basic movement system you’d find in many other games. It isn’t really a “movement system.” It’s just “movement.” The “system” part of it comes from players simply experimenting with what they have at their disposal to make the player do what they want - No vaults, mantles, slides, wallhopping, etc. No environment interactions built into the engine…at the end f the day, games like this are just a poor man’s SMART system.
Chris2
(.Chris.)
#110
Yeah, because Brink didn’t have invisible walls everywhere either…
SMART was a nice idea but hasn’t been put to good use yet, I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing other devs giving it ago but certainly don’t need to see it in every game.
Crytiqal
(Crytiqal)
#111
Holy ****balls, that is SO WRONG!
You need a SYSTEM to do what thinks the player wants, obviously
H0RSE
(H0RSE)
#112
but they made sense. They were either map boundaries or to keep players from accessing areas that shouldn’t be accessed. In RAGE, I will see a waist high railing or small piles of debris that will block my path, with what looks like accessible areas of map behind it. If you want to block me, use a wall or a cliff - something that makes sense. Waist high railing? really?!
[QUOTE=Crytiqal;380988]Holy ****balls, that is SO WRONG!
You need a SYSTEM to do what thinks the player wants, obviously[/QUOTE]
Not really. The SMART “system” allows players to mantle, slide, climb wallhop, etc because it is all integrated into engine. Players are awre that they have these moves available, and simply need to interact with an object to perform the correct maneuver.
In previous idtech games (and RAGE) the player is aware of the basics - run, jump and crouch. Maneuvers like strafe-jumping and ramping are not common knowledge and for those unaware of them, they must be discovered, either purposely or by accident. This is what I am talking about - Brink has a “system” in place, where everything works with each other. Other games simply have actions that allows players to be much more maneuverable if they are even aware of them in the first place.
In analogy form, the SMART system is a model car kit, where are the pieces fit together and eventually will form a car. Other games simply have odds and ends pieces, where if the player is creative enough or has enough knowledge about them, could possible form a car, or something that resembles it.
Crytiqal
(Crytiqal)
#113
Then it must be just me who thinks its more fun to discover and learn skills myself than being handed them to me freely with a skillcap that levels everyone.
DarkangelUK
(DarkangelUK)
#114
I know you were being sarcastic, but I’ll post anyway… no you’re not alone. The original term for SMART “freedom of movement” seems very ironic considering how restrictive it is. The idea is great, the execution not so much.
H0RSE
(H0RSE)
#118
I have no problem with learning and mastering a system, when the system in question is established and known to all. Ex. - everyone is aware of what moves the SMART system enables - it is up to the players to use these moves in creative ways, if they so choose to.
What I have a problem with is learning or mastering a system that is not known to all, Ex - strafe-jumping, ramping, “tricking” - these are not things you can look up in a manual and even if you happen to stumble upon them or use them in game, many players still do not know the potential they have and the effects they have on the engine. In essence, it is a movement system that is hidden within the game, where players may or may not be aware of it. No thanks - I tend to want to have something as important as movement, to not be some sort of hidden minigame.
It’s not like “here are the tools at your disposal - have fun.”
It’s more like “there are tools at your disposal in the game, but they could go completely overlooked. You’ll have to find them and discover what they can do by yourself”
gooey79
(gooey79)
#119
[QUOTE=H0RSE;381028]It’s not like “here are the tools at your disposal - have fun.”
It’s more like “there are tools at your disposal in the game, but they could go completely overlooked. You’ll have to find them and discover what they can do by yourself”[/QUOTE]
So I assume you’re against tactics like putting mines on a Husky, or third eye camera on a Tormentor in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars?
DarkangelUK
(DarkangelUK)
#120
Anything beyond a movement system that requires the press of a button on console is a moot point, the controller means it’s impossible to accomplish anything beyond it’s limitations. As for PC, I think the general consensus so far is a movement system that allows the user a bit of freedom is welcome, I’m curious which camp your speaking on behalf of or is this just a lone opinion that you simply don’t like it and don’t want it even though it doesn’t affect you.
All games have things that maybe were or weren’t intended, but the devs never officially released or told anyone about. This nonsense that people must be told and taught how to use it is a pile of crap. I can name a ton of tactics and techniques used in ETQW that were never advertised or ‘official’, but were used quite often… but because the devs never added them to the handbook that’s a bad thing? Many things in ETQW were purposely left with a scope for user innovation, and the devs were quite interested at what the players came up with, “emergent gameplay” is the term I believe that was used.
I find it a sad state of affairs when opinion starts leaning towards a mantra where learning and discovery should be removed from the game. And worst of all, you’ve given absolutely no single viable reason against it other than you don’t like it. I’ve not seen one argument that remotely resembles a strong point against an innovative movement system that the user can build upon. Innovation and discovery breed longevity, remove that and you remove desire to play… unlocks and ranks can only keep you busy for so long. The same stuff over and over again can get mundane and the gameplay becomes stagnant.
I’d rather learn something than have it laid on a plate for me, then call everything else not ‘official’ a glitch and rag on those that chose to think outside the box and you didn’t.