Smart

(DarkangelUK) #81

It existed since Quake 1 and actively carried over in each iteration of the series and engine, intentionally carried over, because they didn’t create defrag themselves that means it wasn’t supported?

What is this “sense of achievement” I keep hearing about? It’s movement in a game…it doesn’t and shouldn’t be rocket science. The only time a sense of achievement should be present for moving within a game, is when movement is the game, like in Mirro’s Edge or some sort of simulator.

Accomplishing something that very few have or can doesn’t give you a sense of achievement? Why shouldn’t it be part of the game, because you don’t want it to be part of it and don’t get it? Close minded opinion where you don’t like something therefore no one else should. The simple act of mastering the physics of a game has substantially increased the lifespan of a game for thousands of players, with absolutely no effect on those that don’t want to spend the time doing it… yet removing it has had an adverse affect on peoples opinions, again with no effect to people like yourself, yet apparently you not giving a crap is somehow worth something now.

lol, listen to yourself - “tricking scene,” “movie making groups,” “trickers,” “trick competitions,” what does any of this have to do with implementing movement in the actual game? You’re talking about sub-cultures that spawned from taking moving within a game and made it the central focus (or only focus) All this has nothing to do with actually playing the game. Brink is a team-based objective FPS. Does that have anything to do with trick competitions or using the movement system to actually play the game? Not really. Like you said, it’s a scene - a niche. It doesn’t apply to the big picture. It’s like going on and on about PC enthusiasts, and how they have PC mod competitions when we are simply speaking about PC gaming - You’re straying off course.

Now who’s losing focus, as far as I saw there was a discussion on skill and how movement can be a skill to master, which doesn’t exist in Brink and somehow you think it doesn’t have to… ironically in a not very popular game. Your exact question was “who cares?”, I explained exactly who cares, and how popular a single focus of skill can be from a game which can increase it’s popularity and longevity quite a lot. A niche group who happen to outweigh the entire community of Brink over 3 platforms… so I guess Brink is a niche game that the majority don’t care about, therefore pointless replicating. Sometimes I think you want a potential Brink 2 to fail or not be developed at all, the reasons for Brink severe drop in popularity are laid out for you, yet you write them off for no other reason than you just don’t get it.

(INF3RN0) #82

You realize that a lot of TJing videos only showcase the kinds of things people can do in the game. The reason why sub-cultures develop is because people want to move without the distraction of an enemy shooting you in the face. That in no way shape or form means that people don’t do the same stuff in a normal game… movement is and should be a huge facet of every game. The ones that offer dynamic interaction do it the best, otherwise your just hitting F in CoD and getting the wall jump animation.

(DarkangelUK) #83

I don’t get it, I honestly don’t get it. It’s a ‘feature’ that could have increased Brink’s popularity, reduced attrition and helped hold retention, all the while having absolutely 0 effect on those that want to play as normal… yet people are so against something that could have helped the game? Hell being a console player it would effect them even less, I can almost grudgingly see the point of the naysayers that don’t want other gametypes as that could split the player base, but implementing an additional skill set that people actively want to learn, which doesn’t affect those that don’t want to use it, all the while keeping the player base combined can only be a good thing… where as we have first hand proof of what will happen when you ignore a ‘niche market’.

(INF3RN0) #84

It’s obvious nonsensical “no room for improvement” dribble just like everything else.

(tokamak) #85

I have to agree here. I know I’m just kicking open doors in with this, but SMART seems more a way of facilitating the console players than liberating the shooter genre.

I think they could’ve taken it a notch further. They said they toyed with players being able to hang (and shoot?)from ledges, the typical parkour thing in mirror’s edge. That would be actually something different. If I remember correctly they didn’t go with it because the textures didn’t look good while hanging against them. Seriously, the textures aren’t that great to begin with.

(.FROST.) #86

It’s not the textures, it’s the resolution of the textures. A fine but delicate difference. They could’ve made them sharp and crisp even from a narrow distance, but the performance would’ve suffered greately from that. I mean look at things from afar, say a ships body. It looks very good. So SD knows how rusty old ship wrecks should look and they know how to texture them but, I have to admit that, they left them a little too low-res.

(tokamak) #87

I understand that, but the resolution of the textures isn’t great on consoles and only on truly high-end (or those that don’t have ATI) pc’s the textures stand out.

In other words, there’s not much too ruin.

(Verticae) #88

To those who believe advanced movement and casual tricky movement don’t go together, have a look at how it’s done in the two most recent Jedi Knight titles. All the goodness of the brilliant Quake 3 engine, with added ‘force jumps’, wallruns, backflips and whatnot.

(tangoliber) #89

[QUOTE=tokamak;380608]I have to agree here. I know I’m just kicking open doors in with this, but SMART seems more a way of facilitating the console players than liberating the shooter genre.

I think they could’ve taken it a notch further. They said they toyed with players being able to hang (and shoot?)from ledges, the typical parkour thing in mirror’s edge. That would be actually something different. If I remember correctly they didn’t go with it because the textures didn’t look good while hanging against them. Seriously, the textures aren’t that great to begin with.[/QUOTE]

I would be surprised if any console players actually used SMART. I did everything manually within a few minutes of playing the game, because manually jumping and sliding is more intuitive. Using SMART is not intuitive at all.

On PC, I used it for the first day or so, because I don’t have a gaming mouse yet, and I was having trouble finding a good keybinding that would easily let me crouch, sprint, jump, grenade, etc. But after a day of getting used to it, I went back to manual.

I really don’t get how SMART would specifically help console players. Differences in aiming in one thing…but buttons are buttons. Hitting the crouch and jump buttons are just as easy on consoles…easier if your mouse has only two buttons and a scroll. And console players certainly don’t have difficulty with mastering tricky movement in games, as shown by all the glitchers who get outside the maps.

Also, the textures look beautiful on my laptop on High. They look really bad on PS3.

(.FROST.) #90

Not using SMART in BRINK?!? What are you talking about? Sorry, not only is it very well implemented(yeah, with some random issues), but how else would you climb and mantle obstacles or get to a higher position without it?

But then again, maybe I’m asking the wrong questions. Does using SMART mean to you to keep the SMART-key pushed or do you mean using it at all;like the usual short tapping? In case you mean the last one, where would be the virtue of playing a light guy at all, except maybe for the running speed?

(tangoliber) #91

SMART is the automatic pathfinding system. To me, using SMART means that you just hold down sprint and look in the direction you want to go…like you don’t even hit the crouch button when you slide or hit the jump button when you vault over something, jump up to a ledge, or wall jump. Using manual means that you hit the crouch and jump button for those actions. It seems very easy and intuitive to me…not pressing those buttons seems non-intuitive.

I’m not really sure what you can add to the system to make the controls more difficult. Jump to vault… Jump to grab a ledge…Crouch to slide. Jump twice to wall jump. What else can you add? A separate button for grabbing ledges? I don’t think adding complexity in the controls would make it more skill-based. You probably could boost the speed/distance of the wall jumps and let people wall jump multiple times…getting a speed boost each time. That might add some more freedom for creativity.

(INF3RN0) #92

It’s not about adding buttons lmao… it’s about expanding the importance and versatility of movement. What’s the difference between climbing a ladder and climbing a box when nearly every smart path has been set to work in one instance. Smart might look cooler, but for the most part they just threw a smartable object in the way of where normal walk ways/ ladders/ or stairs would be. I always imagined smart as encompassing me having to combine much more extensive combinations of jumping, grabbing, etc rather than “Look a gap with one convenient wall! Click JUMP” or “Hmm no stairs but a big box??” The thing is we would all love to see a lot more motivation for something more than forced/required Smart interaction, as well as perhaps a more complex definition of movement ex. gaining some momentum from specific terrain angles etc.

(tokamak) #93

Smart would already be much more interesting in Quake Wars, far more freedom and the certainty that none of the smart locations are contrived.

(montheponies) #94

ideally a progressive movement system would allow the player to navigate the map without feeling like false hurdles (eg. a chest height wall) are in the way, whilst at the same time allowing for more extreme moves to be performed by those that want to practice it as a skill, using for example, their angle of attack, timed sweep of mouse etc without resorting to another ‘f’ key.

in both cases though it has to be intuitive. no mean trick to be honest, but whoever get’s it right could have something to properly differentiate their game from the current crop of derivatives.

(wolfnemesis75) #95

I personally feel that the new DLC maps went further with adding places to SMART. I just feel that adding even more places all over maps would push it further in a good direction. Like being able to jump from roof to roof in a more active real way that would have strategic benefits, would also be cool. And make it so that with good timing, you could essentially get to anywhere on a map. I know that being able to get to rooftops might make it too powerful, but I think it could be done on a few maps to up the level of intrigue. Just make access less easy from the defending team. My two cents.

(H0RSE) #96

Adding a more robust or response or whatever movement system, is fine and dandy, but you have to remember Brink has bodytypes. What about the Heavies or even the Mediums? However much you increase the effectiveness of the movement system, you are making the Light bodytype that much more versatile and/or powerful. What would be done to compensate for this on the opposite end of the spectrum?

(DarkangelUK) #97

What originally was intended from the start, scaled movement and access to better weapons and more health. Lights were always intended as the movers and groovers, heavies were the big gun touting juggernauts, and the mediums somewhere in between. I don’t see why that would change at all.

(zenstar) #98

With better movement you may need to adjust health increases and weapon damages, but it could be balanced easily enough.
Alternatively mediums and heavies get a bit more mobile in addition to their health and damage increase over the lights. Either way it’s not a major deal.

Heavy + medium need some tweaking already IMO.

(montheponies) #99

Bear in mind my comment wasn’t Brink specific. Personally I wouldn’t have body types, just have a restricted movement set based upon weapon/character choice.

(H0RSE) #100

Yes, that is what was intended, but not what happened. As it is now, Lights pretty best the other 2 bodytypes in every aspect. If the Heavies were indeed the gun touting juggernauts that I (and others) expected them to be, then things would be different. If things wouldn’t change at all, then they would be even more imbalanced. Changes would need to occur if a more versatile and free movement system was implemented.