Smart

[gooey79]

Let’s not lose sight of the following words, straight from Paul Wedgewood himself:

‘At it’s heart it’s absolutely a shooter, it’s about running and shooting at other people’.

[INF3RN0]

Here’s the difference between you and me. You want a game moving to the point where it fits you, I want a game that celebrates different people which happens to include me.

I think you might be overstepping your bounds by saying that your opinions are shared by the majority. I find most of your ideas to be extremely personal and functional only in your mind. I’m probably more conservative with my views on the game development, as I advocate for the existing core values, hesitate on the risky new ideas, and dismiss the ridiculous. There’s a lot of people like myself that are able to look at a game and envision how things will function in the field; I call it sensibility rather than close-mindedness. I have never in any way been asking for the game to cater to me. I’ve only been asking for the game’s to improve on the original concepts, and what you said there is extremely hypocritical considering what you’ve been asking for. There were lots of idea topics in pre-release that ended up in Brink that I tried to stick the “please don’t do that” tag on, and not surprisingly most all of them turned out awfully.

I’m fairly sure I’ve been playing the same games as you, but I feel like I have an entirely different comprehension for them than yourself. Then again, I know people who have been playing ET games for years and years that are still discovering new aspects and understandings of the game. The games need to be allowed to have their existing concepts perfected before SD goes trying to please everyone with all these whacky things they have no experience with, otherwise you get Brink. Goo’s quote is so true, and I hope to god they sick to that mentality before I lose all hope.

[H0RSE]

You could do a lot of things in the other games that “weren’t intended”. The problem with Brink is that every single Smart-able thing is incredibly obvious as being put there.

Yes, everything in that video was “incredibly obvious” and required no amount of thought or skill to perform…

It’s a bit more enjoyable when it’s not so in your face easy

Opinion.

and you actually have the opportunity to achieve tough feats that allow you to cut some time off your travel.

Common sense (and that vid I linked) will tell you that using SMART in Brink, can and will cut some time off your travel. Whether they are tough feats or not is irrelevant.

If you have the option of cutting 10 seconds off your travel time by either completing a couple maneuvers and interacting with objects, both of which are fully supported and built into the game’s engine or manually discovering a path that was never really intended to be discovered or used by players, and thus requires practicing unorthodox use of positioning and movement, which are you going to choose? You’re going to choose the second option because it requires more skill? Yeah, ok…have fun with that.

Example; the smart-able path is not an obscure set of things, the course is laid right out in front of you and has been tested hundreds of times by developers; versus; a lot of smart-able objects, buildings, etc that allow a player the opportunity to make their own paths instead of being limited to just one.

It’s not quite “laid right out in front of you” - at least not in every instance. There are a good bit f paths and shortcuts available that require players be creative.

[INF3RN0]

It’s ironic that SMART requires very little smarts. The Brink jump videos are so lackluster compared to ET and Quake, and they are completely easy to perform (unless your Brink char is paraplegic). I don’t care how much of a hardcore fan of Brink someone is, SMART is grossly under-utilized by map design and the pace of the game. I’ve said SMART is a neat idea, but OMG why can’t it actually be implemented to feel like a constant part of the game instead of just a gimmick. I really am astounded that you wouldn’t ask for more of a challenge from SMART movement and the expansion of it’s usefulness, as it has the potential to be really amazing if allowed to be…

[Crytiqal]

[QUOTE=H0RSE;380539]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srVENi_jZv0

Yes, everything in that video was “incredibly obvious” and required no amount of thought or skill to perform…

[/QUOTE]

After 4 minutes I only saw 3 new jumps so I quit watching.
Still, SMART really was a cool invention from SD. I just wish it was manual, and more utilized in the maps

There isn’t really that much skill involved as you have to press SMART and just look at the general direction where you want to go.
I liked the music tho

[tokamak]

I think you might be overstepping your bounds by saying that your opinions are shared by the majority.

Oh no, I’m not saying that I represent the majority at all. The majority seems very clear on what they want, they want COD. I’m arguing for that next to those kind of players, there need to be room for rungunning glitch kiddies like you and pretentious chess players like me.

[zenstar]

Oh no, I’m not saying that I represent the majority at all. The majority seems very clear on what they want, they want COD. I’m arguing for that next to those kind of players, there need to be room for rungunning glitch kiddies like you and pretentious chess players like me.

Do you only play pretentious chess or do you also dabble in normal chess? What about silly chess or full contact chess?

[tokamak]

[H0RSE]

It’s ironic that SMART requires very little smarts. The Brink jump videos are so lackluster compared to ET and Quake, and they are completely easy to perform (unless your Brink char is paraplegic).

On the contrary. I think all the jump or parkour vids for the ET games and Quake are the ones that look lackluster. They are filled with players performing revenuers and interacting with the environment in game’s whose engine doesn’t fully support it. The end result are players strafe or rocket jumping, with limited animations (no climbing or mantle animations) which just makes the whole vid look homemade cheesy. Yeah, it may have taken “skill” to reach some of the places they get to, but who cares? Many times they are reaching areas for the sole reason just to get there, providing no actual advantage or depth to the actual game. In Brink, movements and interactions are supported by the engine, resulting in smooth animations/transitions while at the same time allowing access to the parts of the environment that make sense to interact act while cutting off access to areas that don’t. The SMART system as it is in Brink is fine. Remember, Brink was never designed to be a parkour sim. The SMART system was designed to help players move more fluid across the environment, not allow players to get to any and all locations they could possibly think of.

I don’t care how much of a hardcore fan of Brink someone is, SMART is grossly under-utilized by map design and the pace of the game. I’ve said SMART is a neat idea, but OMG why can’t it actually be implemented to feel like a constant part of the game instead of just a gimmick.

It is a constant part of the game - I mantle, slide and climb in every single match I play. The fact that I can’t strafe jump up the side of a 50 foot building doesn’t mean it is being “under-utilized.”

I really am astounded that you wouldn’t ask for more of a challenge from SMART movement and the expansion of it’s usefulness, as it has the potential to be really amazing if allowed to be…

I don’t see how making it more challenging equates to it being more amazing. An amazing movement system to me, would be a system that allows you to do a lot with minimal effort. That’s usually how advancements in technology work - accomplishing more while doing less.

[Jimmy_James]

After 4 minutes I only saw 3 new jumps so I quit watching.

So, potentially, if you had watched the entire 9 minutes you may have seen 6 new moves total. And that’s not good enough for you? Well, I don’t envy the people that have to shop for a birthday present for you. Must be brutal. Do you just kick them in the nuts if the wrapping isn’t to your liking?

-JJ

[INF3RN0]

Oh no, I’m not saying that I represent the majority at all. The majority seems very clear on what they want, they want COD. I’m arguing for that next to those kind of players, there need to be room for rungunning glitch kiddies like you and pretentious chess players like me.

You call me a run and gun glitcher… Yet I am quite sure I am smarter than you in game. You fall in the category of people that can’t handle/understand the curve of the game, so they blame it on a need for changes to put them ahead rather than taking the time to observe what more capable people are doing. Et games obviously have more tactics than you can comprehend, or maybe they are just too complex for a chess player. Either way, you don’t appreciate what et offers becaue your too concerned with your lack of ability to shoot a gun in an fps game…If that’s what we are still playing.

[tokamak]

Did I say glitch? I’m so sorry, I meant twitch.

[DarkangelUK]

On the contrary. I think all the jump or parkour vids for the ET games and Quake are the ones that look lackluster. They are filled with players performing revenuers and interacting with the environment in game’s whose engine doesn’t fully support it.

Yet games like ET had areas of the maps specifically designed to make use of the physics, or the likes of Quake 4 where the movement and tricking mechanics were purposely created/included due to the popularity of it. It’s a bit naive to think the engine doesn’t support it, like the devs couldn’t have removed that type of movement if they wanted to. CoD1 was built on idtech3 and completely nerfed to the movement, so the option was there… but SD chose to embrace it and reward those that master it. In Brink they chose to open it up and make everyone feel special, ironically removing any sense of achievement.

The end result are players strafe or rocket jumping, with limited animations (no climbing or mantle animations) which just makes the whole vid look homemade cheesy. Yeah, it may have taken “skill” to reach some of the places they get to, but who cares?

A hell of a lot of people. Quake 3’s tricking scene alone on a single platform has more fans and active players than Brink over 3. There are literally thousands of maps dedicated to it, mods dedicated to it, movie making groups who makes movies specifically for trickers even though they aren’t trickers themselves. There are tricking competitions, mapping competitions, stats and records sites, tournaments. You’re showing a complete lack of understanding and selfishly writing it off as something small just because you don’t ‘get it’.

Anyway, as you seem to like to put a lot recently… “opinion”

[Crytiqal]

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;380567]So, potentially, if you had watched the entire 9 minutes you may have seen 6 new moves total. And that’s not good enough for you? Well, I don’t envy the people that have to shop for a birthday present for you. Must be brutal. Do you just kick them in the nuts if the wrapping isn’t to your liking?

-JJ[/QUOTE]

Wow, 6 new moves that each last 1-2 seconds. That would make an entire 6-12 seconds of joy out of waiting 9 minutes.

[INF3RN0]

I truly hope SD takes note that forums should not influence their game development… this place smells.

@Horse

SMART is meant for dynamic interaction with environments. The environments in Brink are extremely limited. Just because you throw a box in front of me, or put a head-height barrel between a second floor and myself where a ladder normally would be, doesn’t give any significance to it all. The game shouldn’t force you to SMART over a box that’s been conveniently placed in front of a doorway, the player should be encouraged/able to have extensive interactions with their environment and develop their own methods of getting from A-B. A lot of people would shoot you in the face for what you just said about Q3 and ET…

[QUOTE=H0RSE;380565]
I don’t see how making it more challenging equates to it being more amazing. An amazing movement system to me, would be a system that allows you to do a lot with minimal effort. That’s usually how advancements in technology work - accomplishing more while doing less.[/QUOTE]

Well this just convinces me never to take you seriously…

[BioSnark]

I don’t see how making it more challenging equates to it being more amazing. An amazing movement system to me, would be a system that allows you to do a lot with minimal effort. That’s usually how advancements in technology work - accomplishing more while doing less.

and following on, an amazing aiming system is one that aims for me. Quick time events, perfection.

[H0RSE]

Yet games like ET had areas of the maps specifically designed to make use of the physics, or the likes of Quake 4 where the movement and tricking mechanics were purposely created due to the popularity of it. It’s a bit naive to think the engine doesn’t support it.

But the engine didn’t support - at least not properly. Many of the tricking maps I’ve seen, simply has items arranged in the environments to cater specifically to tricking and/or dev console commands enabled to change game physics. Maybe it is more acurate to say the devs didn’t support it. The potential has there, but it was the players that manipulated the engine to do what they wanted it to.

In Brink they chose to open it up and make everyone feel special, ironically removing any sense of achievement.

What is this “sense of achievement” I keep hearing about? It’s movement in a game…it doesn’t and shouldn’t be rocket science. The only time a sense of achievement should be present for moving within a game, is when movement is the game, like in Mirro’s Edge or some sort of simulator.

A hell of a lot of people. Quake 3’s tricking scene alone on a single platform has more fans and active players than Brink over 3. There are literally thousands of maps dedicated to it, mods dedicated to it, movie making groups who makes movies specifically for trickers even though they aren’t trickers themselves. There are tricking competitions, mapping competitions, stats and records sites, tournaments. You’re showing a complete lack of understanding and selfishly writing it off as something small just because you don’t ‘get it’.

lol, listen to yourself - “tricking scene,” “movie making groups,” “trickers,” “trick competitions,” what does any of this have to do with implementing movement in the actual game? You’re talking about sub-cultures that spawned from taking moving within a game and made it the central focus (or only focus) All this has nothing to do with actually playing the game. Brink is a team-based objective FPS. Does that have anything to do with trick competitions or using the movement system to actually play the game? Not really. Like you said, it’s a scene - a niche. It doesn’t apply to the big picture. It’s like going on and on about PC enthusiasts, and how they have PC mod competitions when we are simply speaking about PC gaming - You’re straying off course.

[FROST1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srVENi_jZv0

Awesome vid(music, editing and of course the trick-jumps). Brought back some pre-release nostalgia(sigh). I’m allready on an upward love curve with Brink for some time. And I’m glad to say it’s getting steeper and steeper.

(The following is not new to you guys and I surely! know that it was intended this way from the devs, but the vid makes it even more visible than most of the original SD promo vids.)

Those mostly colorful maps in Brink are more like sport arenas, in opposition to the more or less real-life maps of a BF or CoD. And the action in Brink is also more stylized. It’s like with olympic-sports. Many of them are also stylized versions of real-life actions like hunting, fighting and well, darting off. So from this point of view this very stylized actions/looks/movements predetermined Brink more as an established e-sport game than all those modern warfare fps games out there. (though btw, BF3 looks pretty awesome)

[INF3RN0]

Horse thinks movement is only an important part of the game in TJ videos… facepalm.

[H0RSE]

Horse thinks movement is only an important part of the game in TJ videos… facepalm.

No, that’s not what I said. I’m saying bringing TJ vids and the tricking scene into a discussion about movement within a team-based FPS is meaningless. I simply linked a TJ vid for Brink to show that the SMART system does what the devs said it would - allows for smooth movement across the terrain (with creative paths as well) A fluid movement system within an FPS is important. A movement system that is so versatile that players can commit to a sub-culture that revolves only around the movement and what it can do - not important. You can easily obtain the former without the latter.