Smart better than l33t in ET-shuffle teams by XP doesnt work

(Freedom[]Tickler) #1

Ive been on alot of pub games where on side calls for a shuffle by XP vote, which invariably fails. I think it is nearly impossible to balance a pub game merely by XP, when really you need 2 or 3 players to switch sides.

ET games are often won b/c 2 or 3 key players on one side play smart, not b/c some l33t spawn camping panzer wh0r racks up huge kill #s.

I get alot of XP not for killing, but for doing the right thing at the right time. Ill play engie on bank vault map, and get the tank passed all of the obstacles, or as axis, spend all my time rebuilding the obstacles. Players need to spawn as the class their team needs at that moment, but we still have alot of players who just wanna be a cov ops or mortat etc, and thats what I beleive unbalances pub games.

Pub games see alot of players come and go, team balance can shift several times over the course on one 30 min game for this reason. And b/c the n00b factor is still high, 2 or 3 smart players make the difference. Once all these n00bs learn the game and maps, the games will get more competitive. I think alot of people new to wolf/et will stick w/ the game and get better, us vets of RTCW will have to be patient w/ them.

(U R Sux) #2

I think its hilarious that no one responds to your posts freedom. You had a post before about how much ineffective weapon scrolling is and nobody wanted to respond. Probably because they are all guilty of it weapon changing with the scroll wheel. At least most of the medics crouch… (cant stand the non crouching medics)…and at least SOME know how to strafe jump.

Now with the pub games and shuffle issue, i suspect that many people are guilty of it as well. I know for a fact that when me and a couple of my friends jump on a server and get on the same team, it unbalances the teams to the point where we totally dominate (the game has many newbs as you correctly pointed out).

It only takes a couple or maps before people spamming the shuffle based on xp gayness as well as whining about how the map is hard for axis / allies (whichever side is losing). I play almost every night for a couple of hours and WITHOUT fail, the same whining happens on every server.

People constantly calling for a shuffle need to realize that it only takes a couple of good players amongst newbs to make the game WAY unbalanced. Shuffling just shuffles the newbs cuz the guys that are playing together will swtich to each others team anyway!

For instance, last night i was on allies me and a friend of mine are playing on the new beach map. Our team was getting slaughtered for a good 10 minutes at the spawn on the beach AND teh flank until me and my buddy built the ramp and just bolted inside enemy base to kill the generator. We just start spamming our teammates while dyna is planted to start moving toward the command post back entrance right away. By the tiem the dyno blows the back doors open we’ve defneded the enemy engies from rebuilding the generator and all of a sudden people start calling for a shuffle. I mean wtf!!! These same people were NOT calling for a shuffle while they were spawn kiling aliles on the beach.

Rant over,

E

(Dawg) #3

I would’ve responded to Freedom’s post except it would have just consisted of “I agree”… I always hate those posts… :slight_smile:

On the other hand, it shows support for the idea. But since nobody presented an opposing viewpoint, there was no discussion.

Maybe if some 1337 p01n7-//h0|23 would make a counter argument…

Dawg

(Sombee) #4

Next time forget about the generator and your teammates being spawncamped, and just plant at the gun controls. Axis will be screwed because most are on the beach (and probably not very many are engies at that point).

(U R Sux) #5

Depednign on the size of the game, and where the enemy is spawning, i’ve found that planting right at the gun controls can often just lead to a defused dynamite, my mini squad dead, and back to getting spammed on the beach. your results may vary

(senator) #6

I dont like shuffle by XP and often vote no. a) because I’m playing with a buddy and we want to be in the same team and b) this game is about teamplay and the ones with the high XP arent the l33t killer, they are the good teamplayers and are doing their job (distributing medic / ammo) instead of keeping all the goodies for themself and wasting all energy on airstrikes and arty intead of feeding the annoying medic who keeps following them for minutes now calling for ammo: “go away n00b Medic, that’s my energy and I need it to spam airstrikes” Yeah, funny, it’s really a pleasure to play in this team.
I fricken hate it to play with n00bs, and I don’t mean the ones who cant shoot straight or trying to fire a mortar from indoor but the ones who have absolutely no clue what they are dooing and are simply shooting at everything without caring for the objectives, their teammates or class dispersion (50% CovOps is not uncommon in a n00b team)
I know I sound egoistic but I play to have fun and I would happily play with less skilled players if they would simply try to work as a team. I was the only skilled player in a n00b team and got owned by the other team consisting of many skilled players and some n00bs. But hell, that was no fun!
So if I’m playing in a team with whom I can cooperate I vote no. As soon as players have learned to distribute ammo, to give medipacks and revive the fallen, engineers start actually building/destroying objectives instead of running around trying to get some kills with their l33t rifel grenade… yes, than I’m prepared to play in the weaker team but until than I play with the players I know and wait for the n00bs to learn :smiley: :moo:

(U R Sux) #7

LOL so true

(Iamthefallen) #8

Good post senator, and very true. Personally I really like newbies, I’ve always tried to take them under my wings and show them the fun that is online gaming. I give pointers and advice, even to the opposing team. However, that said…with ET there seems to be a large newbie part that just doesn’t pay attention.

If you’re new, don’t know the map, don’t know the objectives, don’t know what to do: Pay attention to the requests and commands of those that do know! Follow them, help them, do what they tell you to do and you will be of some help to the team as you learn. Play as a medic, learn to reveive and give healthpacks, then just follow a group around helping them out. Play as an engineer and look for things to build, do what those with higher XP tell you to. Play as a fieldop and give out ammo. There are a lot of things a newbie can do to learn and help the team at the same time, please, try them. You’ll find your more experienced teammates will have a LOT more patience with you if you just pay attention.

However if you go Rambo spamming wildly you’ll find yourself on the receiving end of a callvote kick very quickly…

(BlackDeath) #9

I help n00bs who look like they are trying to have a fun, enjoyable time with other people over the internet. I have NO problem with stopping my own play and responding to a question like, “How do i build the command post”, or “How do i arm dynamite”. But the people who say, “YOUR A FUCKER BLACK_DEATH” when i get over 1000 xp in campaign will never see an encouraging word from my mouth ever.

I dont mind helping n00bs who look like they need help getting used to the game, but with the incredible amount of JACKASSES in ET, im reluctant to do it anymore…

P.S. DOES ANYONE UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU GET LIKE 1200 XP, or Lieutenant General in 3 maps, when some guy with like 100 xp says, “YOUR SUCH A n00B!!” I just dont understand. You just owned everyone, and some moron who cant aim and doesnt even know the objectives calls you a n00b???

B_D

(Dawg) #10

I imagine its a byproduct of the stupidity of some people combined with a small amount of information. They hear other players call others newbs and they think it is a blanket insult. In a way, it is.

The more experienced players will call each other newbs as a joke - a little punctuation on that last kill. But the morons just fling it around as a general insult. If someone I don’t know is calling me a newb, I just shrug it off - they probably just think they are much more cool than they really are. I know better… they’re just a moron.

Dawg

(Warrzie) #11

But Senator, I think that’s the core of the problem. You have some professional players on one team who are all doing their job while the other is populated with newbie players who are doing an ineffective job. I think the shuffle teams vote needs to be changed so that the majority rules in all situations (ie, 5 against and 6 for would result in shuffled teams). Hopefully this would prevent all the good players from voting against fair teams (although I’ve found they aren’t always the culprits. More likely it’s the newbies on the winning side who vote against team shuffles).

(RocketGrrl [SWE]) #12

So then you are a part of the problem and not the solution to the unbalanced teams. Why dont you spectate for a while and try (both) to switch teams to even things out (I’m sure some are tired of their 5s lifetime). Normally it is the attacking side who has problems. Regarding that, I dont know why so many get a major kick out of pushing the offensive (n00b filled) team back to their spawn and racking up XP by airstriking/barraging/pfausting them in to oblivion.

(Coolhand) #13

Oh, I don’t know, it can be fun sometimes (just not ALL the time). Had the last laugh on Fueldump last night, Allies were getting completely owned, couldn’t get the tank over the bridge… then I switched to covert ops, got me an enemy uniform, nipped through to the depot (which had NO defenses built!), called for an engy, and one came running. I let him in the door, et voila :smiley:

(Kendle) #14

It’s a hard one to call. Often I’ll vote ‘Yes’ to shuffle by XP if I’ve just joined a server, however, occasionally, I’ll come across someone who actually seems to know what they’re doing, in which case I’d prefer not to be shuffled to the other team. Usually it’s pointless though, because the team that’s currently winning will almost always vote ‘No’, so the vote rarely gets carried.

(amazinglarry) #15

I get most of my XP from light weapon kills. So in that respect I’m always in the top 3 in XP if I’ve started from the beginning. I always play medic too so obviously my healthpacks and reviving help. Thus me knowing what I’m doing. So in that regard an XP shuffle would be the same as if I switched sides for example. Although I will agree, that it’s not always the case. i.e. l33t camping panzer wh0rz

(senator) #16

So then you are a part of the problem and not the solution to the unbalanced teams. Why dont you spectate for a while and try (both) to switch teams to even things out (I’m sure some are tired of their 5s lifetime). Normally it is the attacking side who has problems. Regarding that, I dont know why so many get a major kick out of pushing the offensive (n00b filled) team back to their spawn and racking up XP by airstriking/barraging/pfausting them in to oblivion.[/quote]

Well, actually I do sometimes switch teams to help the team getting owned, only to discover their problem immediately when I look at their players. 50% CovOps, 25% Soldiers, 25% Engineers, no FieldOps, no Medic. That this team has no chance is obvious, especially because most newbies dont know how to play their class. CovOps dont check for mines or provide smoke cover, all they try to do is find a uniform. Soldiers: far to often I’ve seen MG-42 who were fired Rambo-Style or if the player discovered how to use it properly he starts to protect our spawn. Yeah, great, but we need to move forward to achieve our objectives!

Is it fun to play in this team ? No. And does it help to tell them what to do ? Well, during a campaign on an half-empty server we played a little 3 vs 3 and one of our team was playing CovOps all the time. He wasn’t even good at his job, never scanned for mines, bad sniper and never popped smoke. So I askeds him to switch class and that we could need another medic. After battery was won in the last possible moment and goldRush played for 20min (= I was asking him to change for roughly 50 min. now) he finally switched to Eng. only to come back as CovOps once he was killed. His reasoning: as Eng. he was killed so fast.

Thats when I gave up and thought that noobs need to learn on their own, it doesn’t help if I tell them something, it doesen’t help if a good player switches to their team because they aren’t learning from him, they continue to play as they did before, the only consequence is that maybe the owned team is finally able to get off their spawn. More often than that I decide to switch to eng. and make a run for the objective on my own but whether i succeed or not, this is not the kind of game I want to play, I want teamplay.

So I’m not part of the problem, the problem are the noobs who don’t know what to do and how to play, I hope that they will learn but I think they won’t learn teamplay magically once a good player joins their team but only over time.

(RocketGrrl [SWE]) #17

I know what you are talking about, its just that when you get in these situations when you are on a team where most people are clueless and you are pushed back you would wish that someone good on the other team realises this and switches teams.
Too often have I played lopsided campaigns when at the end a couple of clanners on the Defensive team with huge XP. If they would have changed teams it would have been more interesting.

(Coolhand) #18

Unfortunately the only answer to this is “just deal with it”. If I recognise that the side I’m on is on a losing wicket I’ll take the opportunity to try out some class or weapon that I’m not familiar with. Still trying to achieve the objectives, but playing n00bishly - we were all n00bs once :smiley:

IMO all this voting malarky is often just as bad as the problems they’re designed to counteract :frowning:

(U R Sux) #19

I think some of you guys might be missing the point of freedoms original post in that shuffling by xp doesn’t work even when the team’s are unbalanced.

Lemme give you an example from last nights session. Me and my buddy get on voice around 6 PM. Join an in progress round on Quakeshit that’s almost over on oasis. We lost that round barely (just missed a plant).

So i say on the server that the Axis will no longer win anymore rounds until we leave. And true enough, that is what happened. For 2 hours, it took at most 10 mins to complete every map as allies. Me and my friend are SCREAMING for axis to start playing d. We’re telling them to stop spawn camping and start defending. Of course, over 2 hours, nobody heeds the advice and they continue to lose. This is when the insults start fyling at each from axis… “no one is giving ammo” etc whining. When in fact the whole reason we were able to dominate was because people were to not guarding the damn objectives.

Over this period of time of 2 hours, people are spamming votes to shuffle. a total annoyance.

Finally, the vote goes through and guess what. me and my friend on voice are put on the same team. And the ownage continues…

Now even if the vote put us on separate teams, we’re gonna join each others team when possible. Why should we not? We want a competitve game. We even tell the other team what they’re doing wrong. But no one listens. They just think that a shuffle will fix things. On the sea wall battery, if there are 5 newbs guarding the gun, we’re gonna hve a tough time. But instead we just run past the 5 newbs spawn camping and end the game.

We take a break come back one hour later and join axis. Now allies cant do anything. They cant even fix the tank on gold rush.

of course now allies are spamming for shuffle teams about how the teams aer way unfair etc.

Shuffle team goes through and me and my friend end up on sameteam again and the slaughter doesn’t end. Meanwhile, im tryign to tell allies what to do during the game to amek it more of a challenge. Nobody listens. Instead they insist on a shuffle.

Shuffle doesnt’ work!!! Why? because its only 2 people that are owning a server of 24 people. so what are you gonna do , make the 2 people that are ownign it up NOT play together? its ridiculous.

People wanna shuffle the teams around instead of just organizing there own team to do the right thing. its fustrating when you’re on that side, but shfufling aint’ gonna help when the lopsidedness is coming from 2 rtcw players owning it up.

(Flash95) #20

I agree a server shuffle will never make up for lack of team work or playing skill differences. if there are two skilled players that stick together They can beat a larger uncoordinated team.
a better way to handle it is if one team wins three or more in a row with more than 5 min on the clock then one person from the winning team should change to the loosing team so a 8 v 8 match would go to a 9 v 7.
this is what our clan does when playing on public servers. it just makes it more fun.

But server shuffle??? does no good…