Assaults give attackers the ability to push via indirect attacks and being able to take down defenses from a distance.
They also defend objectives well due to their ability to hold a position for a long time without dying.
Meanwhile engineers shouldn’t be able to push using indirect attacks, or at least indirect attacks from a long range.
Those that break this rule have to be rebalanced accordingly.
The biggest problem is that the mines are antifun. It’s easy to stand in the sidelines and say that they are avoidable. They are - if one is willing to be overly cautious and check every potential corner during pushes. But this runs counter to the fast-paced nature of dirty bomb. I’m not even mentioning certain positions that are near-impossible to remove safely without some sort of explosive ability (bridge last obj MG room stairs comes to mind).
It’s interesting that the knee-jerk reaction of many (high levels, often) is to shoot thrown mines instead of actually using their guns in situations. This doesn’t only apply to experienced players, and it works regardless of skill level. I used to main proxy when I was lvl 30. Just as before with burst weapon dominance, I’d be able to win 1v1’s against friends with better skill/aim (mid 40% m4 accuracy) when I’d normally lose. All it needs is map knowledge and attention to game audio. A good example is bridge, on the long balcony of EV-escort portion. if I could hear footsteps approaching the corner and wasn’t confident in 1v1 gunfight, I’d simply longjump/walljump into corner, throw a mine, and shoot it.
This is obviously situational, but then again no decent proxy player would just run into the open, mine in hand, to throw at a fragger who is mowing her down with bullets.
The problem with balancing her mines is that she is already a weak pick in the competitive meta. Any direct nerf to her mines will kill her altogether. More than a nerf, a total overhaul of her ability is needed.
@JJMAJR so only proxy breaks this rule eh.I agree that engineers shouldn’t be able to push as effectively as assualts, which is correct now. Fragger is more effective as he can do it from range, as well as nader. Thunder not so great at pushing due to loss of emp. All i can see them do to the mine in terms of a nerf is give it a range decrease. Not much, just a little. If they were to completepy nerf her ability to do pizza deliveries, then buff thr mine do it is able to be used as a mine.Increase detection radius,lower sound, make smaller. It would then be more effective as a mine, effective still in high level play.
You just said what I wanted to say EXACTLY.
I’m tired to explain this to @Apofenas who doesn’t even understand the logic right.
Did I even said she shouldn’t kill people? my goodness I feel like I’m speaking to wall.
Just LOL man. ROFL.
But she really need other way to be buffed instead of mine. May be make her more useful at destroying the EV by mine like it was in Closed Alpha.
Totally agreed.
Even level 3 knows how to shoot their own mine to blow everyone up instantly.
Worst noob stomping merc ever, but useless in comp.
She really need some other kind of love in this point of view.
I also agree with this. Because flanking like goold old Phantom is almost impossible against pro level players.
The only thing i want nerfed about her, is the suicidal proxy tactic. That’s it.
@THUNDA I understand your “logic” but i don’t agree with it. Engineers are not dedicated defencive class. They are objective specialists. Sure their ability should help them defend objective, but that totally doesn’t mean it shouldn’t help them in assault. Fletcher is best example of that. And Proxy is not ANY near to be as effective at that as assault merc with her low health, worse weapons, short throw range and need to additionally detonate it.
Speaking of defending objective. I’ll mark it for you as you seem to not notice. IT DOESN’T WORK AS DEFENCIVE ABILITY AGAINST ANYONE WHO LEARNED TO MAKE MINECHECK AND WORK IN TEAM. I wonder how many times it was mentioned in this thread…
I wonder if you even read my posts.
[quote=“THUNDA;198659”]
Worst noob stomping merc ever, but useless in comp.[/quote]
Mine traps are absurdly OP against low lvl unexperienced players, but they just DON’T WORK against experienced players, especially ones who have Bomb Squad load outs.
You, sir, suggest to bash ability of weakest engineer with nerf bat and not give something in return to make it work as you think it should. Sure nerf explosion radius and CD, but in return increace interval between mine sounds and make bomb squad spot mine only during those sounds; double its damage to EV and generators or give it a concussion or blinding effect so triggering mine has bigger consequences.
If you’d bother to write something like that, i wouldn’t say anything against.
I would love to see her mines to work better against EV and generators so she becomes better objective speacialist.
Random thoughts:
@Naonna I think you are talking about fletcher due to stuck on damage. But really, all mercs are capable of countering the mines, being able to be aware of your surroundings and also being able to effectively win firefights, which is extremely easy against a proxy, unless they are fxcking using a bloody bunny hopping shotgun. This crap needs to be fixed by increasing the spread of shotguns. So that shotguns are affected MORE than other weapons by the jumping penalties.
A proxy (and especially a Fletcher) getting that close to you shouldn’t happen in organized play, even with bunny hopping. It could be a problem on defense but still.
All I meant was that if you know proxy mines are around, a single sticky gets rid of them, as does tossing ANY explosive that way and waiting 1/2 a second.
Not everyone has explosives
Counterplay in a game like this shouldn’t be rock paper scissors, it’s not class or pick based to the same extreme as Overwatch or TF2.
There should be soft ways to deal with things, being able to defuse a mine or deal with it in a way that doesn’t involve triggering it anyhow, and potentially killing you or a team mate.
The mines themselves are really meant to be a minor obstruction, to delay the enemy team somehow, whether they kill someone or get destroyed they’ve done their job.
The problem is they are on merc who’s light on health, and has only one really good primary, the shotguns aren’t in my opinion good enough on their own just yet to be reliable.
[quote=“LMuerteMan;31320”]Well I play Proxy a lot and i think is pretty unfair that mines have so much AOE on top of that you can Shoot them and kill plenty of characters and Deployable.
I think a way to fix this would be:
[/quote]
You play Proxy yourself and you want your own landmines nerfed? Pathetic. It would be beyond retarded to make her landmines “armable” when you can just deploy them. And landmines are the most easiest thing to shoot in this game. There not that difficult to see & you can shoot them.
pokes his head out of “Proxy is Cancer ! Volvo nerf plz” pillow castle So after some salty tears and thinking, what mines were reworked in such a way, that they can ONLY be planted when standing still/crouched ? This would combat pizza delivery/suicide proxy, since she wouldn’t be able to deploy them while rushing the objective. It would not be a problem of I dunno making an animation of proxy lying down the mine and twisting the middle part to “boot” it imho but I’m no game dev.
And to make them less powerful when being shot before priming, prime time should be 3s and each second, damage gets increased. So it would go like this
Prime animation->80%dmg->1s->90%dmg->1s->100%dmg->fully primed. (adjusted numbers, what do you think @LMuerteMan ? )
Also what @Watsyurdeal said in the last comment
Thoughts ?
Well I guess I’m the kind of player who doesn’t care about winning all the time with my main merc if that merc is broken in or has a unfair advantage. I guess you wouldn’t mind to winning although you have a clear advantage. For me is not fulfilling that kind of victory.
I like @Someordinaryguy Idea it’s really simple and it stops the main problem in my opinion the super easy place and shoot and kill 2, 3 or 4 enemy’s at once
With the has to be crouching to place mine I wouldn’t even recommend the damage nerf that much.
[quote=“LMuerteMan;200545”]
With the has to be crouching to place mine I wouldn’t even recommend the damage nerf that much.[/quote]
“Crouching to place mine”. There’s literally no difference in standing up and crouching to place a mind whatsoever. I agree with you on not nerfing damage on the landmines.
i don’t think a nerf is the solution
she simply needs a rework
and also by your logic fletcher should also be nerfed since he can use his stickies to attack offensivly like grenades
This is old as hell.
I agree with the idea that Proxy needs a rework and do believe that Fletcher needs to be reworked to be defensive instead of spamming remote bombs.
But this is old as hell.
fletcher is okay but proxy mines needs a nerf… whats wrong with people?