Should Proxy Mines be Nerfed?

(kopyright) #41

I don’t understand the point you are trying to make. Every “best Merc X player” will destroy his opponents no matter what - that’s what makes them best. You don’t remove free kicks from football just because some player is better at it than all the others.

(Tanker_Ray) #42

@JJMAJR

Proxy’s completely useless otherwise.

Yes, I totally agree with this part, and that’s why I said her mine needs buff in other ways.

BUT, at least in defensive way, since Bushwhacker will always suffer with the same problem that Proxy had before the manual detonation strats came up.

It’s just explosives in this game have way too much advantag than direct-hitting weapons, which takes the most part of this game. Just like Rhino always have to expose himself to shoot someone, so that it makes him extremely vulnerable when attacking unlike Fragger/Nader.

@Apofenas , There IS distribution on which class should focus on attack and which on defence. They are suppose to be strong at offense because they call in outdoor ‘FIRE SUPPORT’ to break down Defender’s defense lines. Picking Arty at Chapel third phase Attacker is MUCH more effective than Defender.

Three recon snipers’ skill is all meant to spot ‘Incoming’ enemy, not when YOU are attacking with them. So easy to explain with OW’s Widowmaker, Hanzo is in DEFENSIVE heroes.

Whatelse can I explain more. If there was really no classification, do people pick Rhino as Attacker at Chapel? nope.

Stoker is extremely strong against healing stations, alright? Let’s just pass the bug that molotov doesn’t destroy the healing station or sometimes the flame doesn’t even reach the station.

Then does he have 2 molotovs with 20 sec? Does molotov instantly kills enemies like mine does? Does he throw his molotov every 17 sec like Fragger does?

I GUESS NOT.

Also, that scene wasn’t even a trap. Did that Sawbonez killed by second mine that was already placed???

Sawbonez did his best as possible he could counter Proxy, he did nothing wrong, wasn’t even a noob Sawbonez and Proxy spamming second mine for just insta killing Sawbonez.

Do you honestly think that is a TRAP?

What the hell is the difference between when the time Fragger threw two pineapples on a row before. Even that OP Fragger has 30 secs with two nades , and those at least needed some time to cook.

Though, the Fail Safe augment will be useless if SD patch this, at least what Prox mine needs is CD roll back to 25 sec right now.

All those spamming problems are all because of short CD.

@kopyright

‘People who are skilled will do anything well’ might be a right thing, but sometimes there are some guys who are only specialized in one thing.

I just wrote that part to show any noob/pro Proxy is overusing that technique so easily to take down every merc in this game with one shot, no skill required.

, and also preventing other dudes saying ‘that’s a noob technique’.

Don’t get me wrong, that sentence just also shows how Proxy’s flexibility is limited without manual mine detonation, EVEN with a pro player’s hands.

(Tanker_Ray) #43

Sorry Banana, for disagreeing.

Mine is already able to counter with its own sounds.

Lock-On mine does make us extremely annoyed and mad, and it does explode super fast that it just doesn’t give us any chance to evade,

but I don’t think that’s really her OP thing.

Since mine was always Automatic Defense System, she’ve been always desiring that augment.

Seems very fine to me, eventhough I get quite mad when I die by it with Full HP Thunder.

At least we’ve got Bomb Squad , and Untrackable augment, aye?

(Apofenas) #44

@THUNDA That was a very good game play there. Sacrificing the mine to spot incoming threat and give false impression of safety is much higher level of game play and very specific situation than throwing molotov or nade in somobody’s face and getting same insta kill with same or 2 times less CD. If Proxy planted 2 mines behind corners, Sawbones would kill both no problem and shoot Proxy at back - that’s obviously not what you expect from defencive ability.

They don’t fucking work as a defencive tool against good players who learned where Proxy may plant mine on their own experience. And than we have bomb squad and a specific merc which counters her ability completely. With these manual detonation is only reasonable way you get a kill.

You, sir, suggest to bash ability of weakest engineer with nerf bat and not give something in return to make it work as you think it should. Sure nerf explosion radius and CD, but in return increace interval between mine sounds and make bomb squad spot mine only during those sounds; double its damage to EV and generators or give it a concussion or blinding effect so triggering mine has bigger consequences.

If you’d bother to write something like that, i wouldn’t say anything against.

(JJMAJR) #45

Yeah, Proxy’s close to the weakest character in the game. The only ones that are worse are Rhino and Phantom. But nonetheless she’s still subpar compared to other guys like fire supports and Fragger.

So far, I seen Proxy’s mine-grenades work out better when playing defense than offense. Why? She’s good at watching the map, (her speed helps a bit too) and if there’s some sneak trying to come around she could more easily deal with that over a heavily fortified defense.

Take another look at the video. I know that a lot of the situations Proxy is successful in (bumrush, killing isolated players, there’s at least one instance of an Aura being destroyed, but see prev. sentence) only could happen when playing defense. The only exception? Spawncamp, after the situations I mentioned above being exploited.

When playing offense, using those tactics doesn’t work. A properly fortified defense would likely have a lot of space to set up defenses and very likely would cover all angles of attack, namely because that there are already several different kinds of explosives to watch out for. This means that Proxy’s mines aren’t as powerful in such a situation, and she only could be useful for that precious few seconds of planting bombs/delivering carryables/repairing machinery.

With offense, Proxy could still quite easily be shot several times before delivering her payload, or just not do much of anything. Sure, she could take out a camping spot, but would likely die in the process where a character like Fragger or Nader could do so with much less risk involved, and with a bigger gun.

Of course, Stoker could also do the same thing with the same amount of risk, but he has an assault rifle.

Proxy’s main strengths without her mine are:
-Running to the objective quickly.
-Covering the map.

A vigilant enemy force would be able to take down Proxy on offense (although there’s a limit, she’s really good at suicide-rushing objectives) even if she detonated her mines manually. A smart enemy force on defense would be using the health station like some kind of health pack dispenser, to be used only when needed, so explosives can’t just collat and take them out with the health station. Rhino is probably the main exception, but he still destroys Proxy a lot more easily when she uses her pancake strategy.

I am sure that you are very good at the game, but could you show Proxy’s offensive performance in the same hands that you shown her defensive skill? I’d like to be enlightened.

(Sorry if this comes off as rude, there’s actually no sarcasm in this post.)

(Fractures) #46

they’re
mines
you step on a mine in rl you’re going to get blown up & most likely die
the idea of someone walking on a mine in db and brushing it off like it was nothing is stupid
if they were to nerf it you’d still have low health anyway so what’s the point lol
half of the people who want a mine nerf are just salty, but I do agree that sometimes the mines do not make any sound and needs to be fixed

(BrightSteam) #47

No, at least not without severely buffing her in some other way to balance it out. Right now with more experienced players the only way to get use out of the mines is the deploy and shoot method, maybe occasionally getting a kill when one person forgets to check corners.

If you remove the deploy and shoot method without buffing her in some other way she would become one of the worst mercs in the game. Try playing a load out with unshakable, try taking pheonix? The mines don’t insta gib all the time do they? For stationary minest

(AnimeDude) #48

I still don’t understand how proxy having to flank and be within spitting distance to get a few kills is more broken than fragger getting the same amount of kills from across a street from behind cover with no warning whatsoever.

(hoyes) #49

Proxy isn’t broken like people think. Yes her mines are powerful, but no one seems to take into consideration that her hp is the second lowest in the game, surw she is fast, but to a good player that won’t matter. This means that if you want to not die to pizza delivery tactics you have to be more aware of your surroundings. Knowing that said proxy player has to run up to yhe area, throw down a mine then shoot it, gives ypu more than enough time to stark headshot her. The only thing that should be changed about proxy is bunny hopping shotguns, same with fletcher and aura.One or two shotting whilst jumping with a shotgun is ridiculous on theae fast mercs. It.needs a nerf.Maybe also fix the sound desigb so the mines are able to be heard better asqell.

(hoyes) #50

@THUNDA Complaining about bushwhacker bot being on par with fletcher and proxy is not a reason to nerf them. It is a reason to buff bushwhacker, make him more offensive, which we saw with the deploy time decrease. I feel that what could happen is that the deploy time could be 1 second and then inxrease the turrets health to 120 and its lock on speed by 100ms. This wpuld enable bushwhacker to quickly pop the turret down in the middle of a fire fight in order to give himself some extra dps, making him even more potent at combat.

(TheStrangerous) #51

Yeah, I do agree that Proxy mines shouldn’t be destroyable by her own bullets.
Right now, she’s a pseudo-fletcher, by shooting her own mines.

(kopyright) #52

[quote=“TheStrangerous;197866”]Yeah, I do agree that Proxy mines shouldn’t be destroyable by her own bullets.
Right now, she’s a pseudo-fletcher, by shooting her own mines.[/quote]
But Fletcher doesn’t need to get as close to the enemy as Proxy does.

(LifeupOmega) #53

What is: Assault
What is: Engineer

(Tanker_Ray) #54

What is: Assault
What is: Engineer[/quote]

This.

(Apofenas) #55

Yes, remove the ability to repair/plant/disarm from 170 hp Thunder with LMG and let 90 hp Proxy with shotgun do her objective. Because he is totally not engineer and it’s “not his job”.

(Tanker_Ray) #56

He is already working as he was intended. Just like in Meet the Merc section’s explanation.

Nice little logic by the way.

Really, Bushwhacker is going to laugh at your ‘weakest engineer’ part, because while Prox and Fletch are busy spamming their explosives, he is sitting in the very deep corner. Let’s not even talk about her having MP as secondaries.

@Jokder Offensive direct hitting weapon and EXPLOSIVE is massive difference. I know you two aren’t going to say ‘then let’s give Bush a handy explosives!’ at least, but setting her potential criteria as ‘offensive, defense line breaking damage ability’ is completely irrelevant. It’s the matter why explosives are so good in DB, but seriously, if everyone deserves that ‘potential’ you guys want, all mercs need explosives to do whatsoever they want.

If you two still can’t understand what @LifeupOmega pointed out, then you guys have no idea why DB is ‘Team-play’ game.

Note that I’ve never said she only needs nerf, but she definitely needs other way to perform well rather than ‘20sec arty CD mine insta blowing’ nowadays.

p.s. Besides this, I also knew what kind of person you are Apofenas. Stacking to winning team at pubs. WOW. So did you find satisfaction stomping newbies under level 10? What a nice stacker you are. Congratz that you are one of the reason why CMM is coming out!

(watsyurdeal) #57

I may be an odd man out here, my problem isn’t Pizza Deliveries (lol that’s amusing as hell), but the mines that are already placed down. I can’t get around them without shooting them, and I often shoot them and kill an ally by accident.

There needs to be some sort of counterplay there, maybe allowing us to crouch around them, or interact with them to disable them, stuff like that.

(Szakalot) #58

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;198230”]I may be an odd man out here, my problem isn’t Pizza Deliveries (lol that’s amusing as hell), but the mines that are already placed down. I can’t get around them without shooting them, and I often shoot them and kill an ally by accident.

There needs to be some sort of counterplay there, maybe allowing us to crouch around them, or interact with them to disable them, stuff like that.[/quote]

if its next to a corner, you can often juke it around the corner and avoid getting hit altogether. Imo the only unfun part of mines are lock-on variety, as they go against the learned mine lore, and are not really predictable.

(JJMAJR) #59

@THUNDA I still want the “Proxy on offense” video, to get a bigger picture on Proxy’s true abilities.

(Apofenas) #60

That’s your “Proxy isn’t assault so she shouldn’t kill people” logic implemented to assault merc “Thunder isn’t engineer so he shouldn’t do objective”.

I’m sure Bush is a much better engineer as he has KEK and SMG-9, 110 HP and his ability isn’t countered by looking 2m ahead.