RTCW2 overpowered medic proposal

[herf]

In terms of competitive rtcw and ET I think there is one problem.

The medic max health advantage and regen in battle leads to non-skill based outcomes.

If an evenly skilled full health liet/eng/whatever faces a medic of even skill the medic will win vastly more than the liet, whereas if you make them both even max health and take away regen, the outcome will be as it should 50-50, with the survivor being very low on health usually. When i play medic i often end up with 6 health surviving facing a good player… when I should by all rights be dead.

Medic health advantage is justified in terms of “they need it to revive” here is my proposal that I think covers the extra health needed to revive, while making smg battles skill based in outcome.

Proposal:

1. Even out max health among all classes.

2)Consider Nerf the medic regen, take it away entirely or lower its rate a bit.

3)Institute a health bonus for each revive the medic does. If a medic sticks/revives someone that an Enemy has killed he gets 20 to 40 (60?) whatever health up to the max health.( No health bonus for tk revives).

Note the medic can still self repak, still heal teamates and survive as he gets even more health even picking the 20 revive bonus than he would with regen nerfed, and by picking 40, gets more health than regen plus the health bonus combined, not to mention multi revives…

Medics now are simply “shooter” medics mostly. And most battles between medics and engineer/liets are extraordinarily biased and non skill based if they are both even matched in shooting skill. This change would have no negative effect on the game, medics can still revive, getting even MORE health than they would by regen/higher max health, and they will lose smg battles that they DESERVE to lose to a better shot (unless of course they run away and repak : P)

[senator]

wow, another ‘Nerf Medics’ post, can’t wait for the ‘Nerf Soldier’ ‘Nerf FldOps’ ‘Nerf Engineer’ and ‘Nerf CovOps’ replies , because I think we all agree that they are all clearly overpowered!

To make it easier for you guys, lets give you some arguments for your ‘nerf xyz’ replies

Soldier with Panzerfaust can take out enemies with no skill required… NERF!
Engineers with Rifle Nade can take out enemies with no skill required… NERF!
FldOps with arty and airstrike can take out enemies with no skill required… NERF!
CovOps are too hard to spot and can kill enemies with silenced weapons… NERF!

Why is there no ‘Little Girl with Lollipop’ class available ? :bored:

[Depth_Charge]

Damn lollipop noobs

[Sick_Boy]

I do hope the nerf some of the spam weapons, cuz let’s face it : double airstrikes/artilleries and fastfire panzer were NOT a good idea

[Red_Cell]

its simple if a med keeps beating u go med and beat him back never really did the like the whole “working as a team” thing anyways

[ouroboro]

the thing is, all games have more powerful opponents you must face. you have to approach them differently. i realize online games should try to be balanced, but if we simply had a bunch of clones running around with identical weapons, it wouldn’t be ET anymore.

even in q3 where everyone spawns on equal terms, some people get the cool weps/powerups before you do, and they’re now more powerful than you. if you’re an engineer and you come around the corner and bump into a medic, you would have to be a fool to simply go into your same old dance steps and try to out-circlestrafe him and win the 1v1.

you see a medic, you see a superior opponent and need to use other tactics. frankly i’m a bit tired of people saying that aim is everything. it’s simply not. it’s important in a 1v1 against an equal opponent, but that’s it. against a more powerful opponent or when you’re outnumbered, aim no longer means shit. you could have an aimbot and you’re still going down in those situations. those are the times when you have to use your brain.

again i say, the ONLY time this game is reduced to a purely aim dependent situation is when two enemies of equal health and weaponry face off in a 1v1. at any other time, there are many more factors to consider than your aim.

example, fdop at 100 hp meets a medic at 50 hp. now who’s the overpowered rambo? sure, the medic can pack himself, but against an equal aimer, he most likely won’t have time. both players were equal in aim skill, but the player with more health won. that’s life.

there are too many variables. who has more health when we meet? if it’s equal, who has more ammo? if both have enough to kill, are we both reloaded at that moment, or are you in the middle of reloading when we see each other? who saw whom first? both parties don’t always spot each other at the same millisecond. if i see you first, should i fire a warning shot so you can turn to face me? should we stand back to back and walk off 10 paces then turn and fire, 18th century style? for that matter, should we line up and fight in 18th century musket volleys like the british/americans in 1776? why not, that reduces it to a pure test of aim?

i realize i’m off on a tangent with the aim thing here, when your post was about medics, but i feel that this is really the core of your issue: “if i meet a medic, i will lose even though i can aim as well as him”, effectively declaring aim to be the final decision maker and deciding factor in regards to skill. perhaps it is in other games, but not ET.

a medic is a different animal, and needs to be approached with caution. if you’re blindly rushing him and hoping to be a better shot, you’re taking a big gamble and you knew that when you saw him, so who’s to blame really? as a team, you should have your own medics nearby to assist you. also, if you as an engineer at work see a medic rushing you, perhaps standing to face him is not the best choice? oftentimes the best tactic is to avoid the enemy. make use of cover. prime a nade. whatever it takes to AVOID letting the situation degrade into a 1v1 smg battle that you will likely lose.

now that i’ve unloaded on that peeve of mine (aim is everything, therefore by definition, HARDWARE becomes everything. hogwash), i’ll say that the best way to end the rambo medic phenomenon is to take away their ability to self heal. i said it on bani’s site as well and i still believe it. that way in order to be an effective rambo, they’d have to work in pairs, and that means 2 medics are off bulldozing the enemy and leaving their 4 comrades without their help. sure they can still regen, but that benefit can be overcome with brains (be sneaky, stay alert, get in the first headshot, etc). make their max health the same as everyone else and they no longer have the extra bit they need to dive blindly into a hot battle to revive peeps, so i say no to that. just make it so a medic can’t trot nonchalantly along a path paved with his own medpacks, snickering with derison at enemy gunfire, and you eliminate the major problem with medics being used as ubersoldats and objective cappers rather than the support class they were meant to be.

[evilsock]

A level 1 medic is puny - one round of ammo, shit regen and of limited use in advanced positions other than to support his teammates. However, on a 20 minute map it should be possible for most average players to get lvl 3 status - that’s when being a medic is suddenly very different. I don’t recall exactly how many medipacks a lvl 3 medic can lay, but it’s a lot - enough to take a holding position on high ground and potentially keep it. If team mates fall, the level3 medic can perform insta-revives to full health (or thereabouts) which puts the emphasis on gibbing ppl if you’re on the opposing side.

I agree with ouroboro when he says vary your tactics. 9 times out of 10 when I get killed outside of a straight 1v1 its down to where I am on the map - if I’m getting killed easily, most likely its because I’m in a stupid place at a stupid time - being a smart medic means taking advantage of the map to give the appearence of invincibility so for example, a good Axis medic on Fueldump will allow Allies to repair their CP then kill the engy and hold the area with ammo and health near by coutesy of your Allied engy - keeping that high ground becomes easier and the advantage you have in terms of visiblity could easily make you appear godlike but a well timed name or an accurate Cov Ops with a sten will easily take down a high class medic.

The easiest way to curb a rambo medic class is to stop them being able to heal themselves and just rely on regeneration but do you really want that?

Enjoy the challenge and play on better servers with more team orientated players - I think it makes it all the more exciting - especially when some good teamwork comes together on a pub.

[Loffy]

What does nerf mean? Slang?
And while I ask, I wonder what kewl mean. I see it sometimes (“Loffy, your new map, kewl!”) I guess it’s someting positive
// Loffy

[amazinglarry]

To Nerf something is simply to reduce its effectiveness or the like. Nerfing the medic’s ability to self heal would be to take it away completely so they’re no longer able to do it at all, or as well as they had before.

As for the aiming thing, I’m a pretty big believer in aim being a deciding factor in many situations. How can it not? If you can’t hit the target you’re definately going down. I’m not saying it’s the ONLY deciding factor, there are several that you listed off… but aim is definately one of them.

[Kendle]

Herf, you won’t get much joy here as this forum is mostly populated by pub players. I doubt most people here understand the context in which you’re making these proposals.

[DarkangelUK]

Take away the medics ability to pick up his own medpacks too?

[Red_Cell]

all of u shut up everything is perfectly fine the way it is!

[FstFngrz]

NO NO NO… BRING back “THE HOOK”

[Sauron_EFG]

Tricorders for everyone, that’s all we need.

(And maybe some pai.)

[next_ghost]

http://bani.anime.net/banimod/forums/viewtopic.php?p=42417

[evilsock]

The most extreme pub experience I ever had was on a clan server with Oasis on SW - once we actually managed to get the old city flag, Axis mounted an uninterrupted stream of airstrikes continually bombarding our immediate spawn area. The city wall in particular.

They seemed happy enough for us to have the spawn as the arty strikes allowed them to setup a pretty solid defence (I actually think this was a concession because the server was in public mode) so the only way to avoid the arty strikes and progress was to either have most of the team spawn as engies and repair the water pump and/or have a Cov Op and an engy take the right hand route, jumping over onto the raised level where Axis can hang out very close to our spawn and mop-up.

The idea was to nobble one of the Axis, get the uniform and go through that raised Axis guard room through to the old city wall - there you could try to counter attack Axis, pushing them back long enough to get a plant on the city wall. The only other way of doing it I guess would be to attempt a trick jump over the city wall.

I have to admit the constant spamming of the spawn area forced me to use routes I would only normally go for kicks and really showed up the people who didn’t have a good sense of timing .

The closest you’d normally get to this on public play would be as Axis on RailGun when you get seriously spawn raped if you can’t get the Depot flag and Allies move into the area immediately infront of Axis spawn and arty/mortar rape them 'till they can’t sit down for the pain.

You’d have thought some input from the leagues might give a good overall indication of any changes that might contribute to shortening the duration of competition matches?

[Demolama]

yea definately not the best place to post this herf

[EvilBaga]

Only possible “nerf” to the medic that I would consider even remotely not unbalancing would be to lower their syringe count. Maybe 4 syringes to start and 6 at a higher level. After playing this game for close to a year, I believe I can count on two hands the number of times Ive run out of needles.

[Cyber-Knight]

Medics were totally balanced in RtCW I would say.

I hardly ever see anyone say “oh! I lost cuz you were a freaking medic” bitching in RtCW.

*Lowered firing rates gave medics the advantage. (longer firefights means regeneration is more important and makes it easier for medics to run and pack themselves in battle without dying)

*Nerfed sniper rifle is no longer the “medic stopper”

*Ammo is easier to get in ET. Level 1 Medic gets an extra clip. Field Ops can hand out 8 Mega Ammo Packs in a row upon level 1. And there are ammo racks. Plus in OSP/vannila RtCW, you can’t pick up enemy weapons.

[herf]

“Herf, you won’t get much joy here as this forum is mostly populated by pub players. I doubt most people here understand the context in which you’re making these proposals.”
“yea definately not the best place to post this herf”

Well, yeah, I meant it in terms of “top level” competition, and I meant this as a place where I assume the developers(rumor still as far as I know) might be likely to see it. I can appreciate the desire “not to change the game” as that is my basic desire as well. But rtcw2 is going to have some changes, and I would just like people to all have the same max health regardless of class. To make smg battle outcome more skill based. On pubs, where there is a large variety of skill levels, it just doesnt matter as much, skill is likely to win out. But at top competitive levels, skills are much more even, and the health difference, plus the regen, can make a real big difference in smg battle outcome, in favor of the medic, who then repaks, and is full again, and repeats.

I just think eng, soldiers, covert ops, liets should have same max health as medics, so if they meet a medic in battle, and outshoot that medic, that medic dies, versus the all too often medic “win” with 6 health left(or whatever).

I really dont think on a pub, the equaling of the medics max health is gonna matter that much, in a top level game, with more people at even smg skill, it would be significant. As would the health bonus for reviving. I think the game would be better, I may be wrong : )