Requests For Competition Tweaks

(Rahdo) #41

Okay, everyone’s got it out of their systems, now, right? Right? Bueller?

(aimology) #42

[QUOTE=acidrain;197114]Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

:stroggbanana:[/QUOTE]

:slight_smile: and the crowd goes wild :stroggtapir:

(Rahdo) #43

Okay, so, yes, this game is intended to play very well for casual shooter fans who want to relax, have a fun time, level up to get new cool stuff, and lose themselves in the fiction of a new universe. No doubt. Very important goal.

The existence of that goal doesn’t preclude the ability to have a more malleable mode where competitive players can change the basic rules to have an experience that is more “to the metal”.

I plan to do my best to support both. The reality is, the casual and the hardcore gamer don’t have to be at each other’s throat. I know in the past things have been nasty. I know I’m maybe too new to all this and assume that I can get people to work together to have a great game that everyone can enjoy.

But I do believe that’s possible. I do believe Dark and Aim would probably agree on more elements of the game than they would disagree on. It’s just easy to get caught up in the moment with the disagreements.

Since this right here is a thread for “requests for competetion tweaks”, i think it’s entirely appropriate to see lists of stuff like what Aim and others have made. It’s very informative for me, and helps me make the best game I can.

That is all. Keep it coming, but remember to throw some smilies in every once in awhile, or some dancing cyborg bananas. Or some sweet sweet :stroggtapir:

Basically, I’m all about the tapir love.

(aimology) #44

[QUOTE=tokamak;197107]Look, side missions aren’t just bonuses to play with if you’re bored, most alternative objectives in Quake Wars had huge effect in the overall game. They allowed vehicles to enter certain areas, opened up new routes, gave mounted machine guns and provided you with important spawn points. Games are won or lost on these things. Doing them just for the xp bonus is a very silly reason, you want to do them even if they had no reward.

That brings me to another point. EVERYTHING you do in a game should be important enough to do even if they had no xp reward. You’re not leaving that soldier who died during a charge plant lying around if reviving him gave no reward, you’re not letting enemy players walk around if kill them suddenly isn’t rewarded any more.

Xp is there to reward players for being useful and contributing towards winning the game. In fact, people doing things only for the xp is one of the bigger problems in Quake Wars, because some things gave too much xp, this resulted in statpadders, players flying around spawnpoints just destroying deployables while the air support was desperately needed somewhere else.

No they left it out because they went for a totally different scale of warfare then Quake Wars.[/QUOTE]

I think you should ask them why they left it out, I dont think you know that answer. I have read and listened on SD irc and I’ve only seen that they said, they wanted face to face action, not because they want a totally different scale of warfare. So thats wrong

I agree with what you said in the red

I have no clue what your XP comment is about, cause basically it sounds like you’re agree with me. So you make no sense about your post, its like a argument against me that agrees at the same time…

Side missions are for the basic pubber and a waste of time ( in league play ) if it needs to be done its either

  1. too easy, so why even have it in the first place? just take it out
  2. or it can be skipped because its not that big of a factor, so your point is what?
(Slade05) #45

“they wanted face to face action, not because they want a totally different scale of warfare”

:smiley:

(aimology) #46

[QUOTE=Rahdo;197119]Okay, so, yes, this game is intended to play very well for casual shooter fans who want to relax, have a fun time, level up to get new cool stuff, and lose themselves in the fiction of a new universe. No doubt. Very important goal.

The existence of that goal doesn’t preclude the ability to have a more malleable mode where competitive players can change the basic rules to have an experience that is more “to the metal”.

I plan to do my best to support both. The reality is, the casual and the hardcore gamer don’t have to be at each other’s throat. I know in the past things have been nasty. I know I’m maybe too new to all this and assume that I can get people to work together to have a great game that everyone can enjoy.

But I do believe that’s possible. I do believe Dark and Aim would probably agree on more elements of the game than they would disagree on. It’s just easy to get caught up in the moment with the disagreements.

Since this right here is a thread for “requests for competetion tweaks”, i think it’s entirely appropriate to see lists of stuff like what Aim and others have made. It’s very informative for me, and helps me make the best game I can.

That is all. Keep it coming, but remember to throw some smilies in every once in awhile, or some dancing cyborg bananas. Or some sweet sweet :stroggtapir:

Basically, I’m all about the tapir love.[/QUOTE]

I’m becoming a great fan of you already and thats hard to do. I also agree, with what you said.

I honestly think the biggest thing is getting a beta out to some of the community pubber and competition alike. Thats the best way to get advice, but if you cannot I think the BIGGEST things that need to be looked at are.

  1. how smooth the game runs, if the game does not run smooth on a computer that is newer like a 9800gtx and duo or quad, there is a serious problem ( i.e wolfenstien )

  2. sound placement is a HUGE factor ( call of duty had some of the WORST sound EVER ) you should be able to pinpoint foot steps / weapon reloads / even maybe bullet case droppings

  3. registration / and perfecting the hitbox system is a MUST if this is awesome, the game will sell no matter what, because if people aim good they will hit what they are aiming at, make this a high priority

  4. spectator friendly would be nice, atleast have /demo’ing enabled if not and screenshots of course

That is all for now :slight_smile:

(aimology) #47

[QUOTE=Slade05;197121]“they wanted face to face action, not because they want a totally different scale of warfare”

:D[/QUOTE]

thats not a “totally different” it was in quakewars ( just had vehicles also ) it was in rtcw / et / cod… when I heard totally I think of something they’ve never been apart of… Pretty sure they have. Maybe if they made a game like world of warcraft or starcraft, now thats “totally different scale”

please come again. :stroggbanana:

(Rahdo) #48

Actually, side missions i think will be important in competetive play too, because the way they’re being designed, the can swing the overall tide of the battle.

the notion of using XP to encourage players to do the right thing is because we expect a lot of players who come into our objective based online play will have a hard time getting beyond a simple deathmatch mentality. So it’s there to help them get used to focusing on something besides running patterns looking for kills. There’s more to do in our game, and they might need help finding it at first, and realizing how valuable it is :slight_smile:

Also, thanks Aim. That last post was much calmer. It puts a smile on my old man 40 year old bearded face :slight_smile:

(Slade05) #49

I like how you went down from “spectator friendly is a huge selling point” to “spectator friendly would be nice, atleast have /demo’ing enabled if not and screenshots of course” in just one page and a half.

Maybe your awful e-thug so-called competitive whinescene could be returned to the fold after all. :smiley:

(Rahdo) #50

[QUOTE=aimology;197122]I think the BIGGEST things that need to be looked at are.

  1. how smooth the game runs, if the game does not run smooth on a computer that is newer like a 9800gtx and duo or quad, there is a serious problem ( i.e wolfenstien )

  2. sound placement is a HUGE factor ( call of duty had some of the WORST sound EVER ) you should be able to pinpoint foot steps / weapon reloads / even maybe bullet case droppings

  3. registration / and perfecting the hitbox system is a MUST if this is awesome, the game will sell no matter what, because if people aim good they will hit what they are aiming at, make this a high priority

  4. spectator friendly would be nice, atleast have /demo’ing enabled if not and screenshots of course

That is all for now :)[/QUOTE]
Good feedback. Keep it coming, from everyone!

(Rahdo) #51

No one’s saying a huge selling point can’t also be nice :cool:

(tokamak) #52

Only if you see online discussions as a pissing contests where everyone has to disagree with everything everyone else says.

Side missions are for the basic pubber and a waste of time ( in league play ) if it needs to be done its either

  1. too easy, so why even have it in the first place? just take it out
  2. or it can be skipped because its not that big of a factor, so your point is what?

Even in competition side-missions provide exactly the same thing as in a pub, they prevent games from becoming repetitive and teams doing the same tactic over and over again. The more options you have, the more you can do to become unpredictable.

[QUOTE=aimology;197122]3) registration / and perfecting the hitbox system is a MUST if this is awesome, the game will sell no matter what, because if people aim good they will hit what they are aiming at, make this a high priority
[/QUOTE]

Hit-registration and hit boxes should be perfect indeed. But I don’t agree with that people should always hit what they’re aiming at. ETpro took a huge tactical layer away from QW by removing most of the spread. The only valid action was running and gunning, people who were quick to asses the situation and picked their position (crouched or standing, iron sights or not) depending on factors like number of players, involved classes, distance of the engagement where no longer rewarded here.

That’s a real waste. There’s nothing wrong with different spreads for different states.

(Floris) #53

I think it’s rather strange that apparently competitive players have to give competitive feedback, but at the same time when they try to play competitive, join an empty server and kick out anyone joining, it’s all of a sudden a big no-no. One of the biggest requests from the competitive community was to have the OSP commands implemented into ET:QW out of the box, like what was done with W:ET, and if they would have been in the beta, we could have just used the lock commands to avoid spectators and lock the teams.

Anyway, like I did for ET:QW, I would once again like to request Splash Damage to take another look at their previous work for the competitive community and make sure we get most of it out of the box this time, for a list of the OSP stuff in W:ET, see http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?show=611

About limits, maybe SD should take a minute to think “How well would this feature work in a 1on1?” and if the answer is mega-boring or mega-irritating, add a CVAR to limit or restrict it. This way the game will be ready for both the casual and the extreme. I really, really, really think SD did a great job on their official competition mod for ET:QW.

About XP upgrades, even in W:ET and ET:QW they favour the winning team. In competition it’s crucial to have balanced teams out of the box, so the only difference between two sides should be how well they play as individuals and as a team. The simplest way to achieve this would be to add a CVAR to make available all unlocks for both sides by default, or totally disable them.

(aimology) #54

Hit-registration and hit boxes should be perfect indeed. But I don’t agree with that people should always hit what they’re aiming at. ETpro took a huge tactical layer away from QW by removing most of the spread. The only valid action was running and gunning, people who were quick to asses the situation and picked their position (crouched or standing, iron sights or not) depending on factors like number of players, involved classes, distance of the engagement where no longer rewarded
here.

You have greatly misunderstood. I stated that there should be controlable recoil a.k.a burst fire from long distance and controlable spam recoil up close ( like pulling the gun down and to the right or left ) what I meant by that is if you do those things, it should register. Like if you go to youtube and check for quakewars or wolfenstein shooting errors or even quakelive. You will see alot of videos of people shotting at someones head or left / right arm and the bullets pass through them not hitting him. This is a hit registration / hitbox problem.

(Rahdo) #55

That’s a perfect example of how I think casual and competitive play can be supported in one game, because as a more casual shooter player myself, I don’t want to hear any of it (given or taken). So if you jump into a standard match in Brink, you’ll find all VoiP is turned off, with no way to turn it on (you can still have voice chat channels open with your friends and what not, but no public channel).

If you instead opt for a ‘hardcore’ or competitive match, that limit is removed (or at least, is controlled by the guy who set the match up). Easy peasy lemon squeezey, everyone’s happy.

Now just need a thorough list of all the other stuff that needs to be settable, and then

…

and then profit! :smiley:

(Rahdo) #56

Phew, I’m tired. Gonna go watch Crank 2: High Voltage now to recharge

(Slade05) #57

Where is that Locki quote…ah!
“If the first thing that happens is that, not only are you out-flanked, but it happens five times in a row, he teabags you at the end of each one and shouts “Homo!” over the VOIP, you just quit and can’t be bothered. It’s just no fun.”

So it was you! :smiley:

Then there is a part about Richard, but I see he elaborated already.

(needforWeed) #58

I don’t understand that iron sight hate either. QW iron sights work pretty well. You don’t have to use IR in close combat where you need speed.

(Joe999) #59

[QUOTE=Rahdo;197119]I plan to do my best to support both. The reality is, the casual and the hardcore gamer don’t have to be at each other’s throat. I know in the past things have been nasty. I know I’m maybe too new to all this and assume that I can get people to work together to have a great game that everyone can enjoy.
[/QUOTE]

that’s a difficult task. i show you some differences:

pub players like eye candy and want to bring the best out of the new gfx card. comp player like it when the game looks like literal shit and tweak the gfx down to the lowest possible settings. all that counts is seeing the target. eg in wolf:et when the tank got damaged, there was black smoke coming up through which you couldn’t see. unfortunately you could tweak that away. so guess how people wondered when they got hit when they were hiding behind the smoke or didn’t see the firing enemy which was right in front of them.

in general comp players use every unfair advantage which they can get (and call it legal and hence “fair”). in wolf:et there was the feature of instant prone. so when you aimed at the head and pulled the trigger, the opponent pressed a key and was instantly on the ground firing at you while you of course missed him.

and then there’s the “strategic” factor of /kill. when you shoot at an enemy, see that you win and all of a sudden he /kills himself, it takes the fun out of the game.

stuff like that can be fixed by mods, but it takes the fun out of the game when it’s in the initial version. then people wander off to other games.

(Joe999) #60

NOOOOOOOO!!! DON’T!!! it sucks so hard, it will render the good part 1 meaningless, at least it did that for me.